Yeah religion can lead people to do some messed up things....
Having been to Africa several times and with my sister working in HIV/AIDS for ~20 years, I always struggle with the number of people that religion/the Pope has indirectly killed through its historical war on condoms in Africa....even worse are the number of lies told by some of the missionaries to folks in the remote villages.
"The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.
The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.
The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.
The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.
Benedict XVI made his comments as he flew to Cameroon for the first leg of a six-day trip that will also see him travelling to Angola.
The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.
The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading, but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.
The pontiff, speaking to journalists on his flight, said the condition was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".
sad stuff all around
Having been to Africa several times and with my sister working in HIV/AIDS for ~20 years, I always struggle with the number of people that religion/the Pope has indirectly killed through its historical war on condoms in Africa....even worse are the number of lies told by some of the missionaries to folks in the remote villages.
"The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.
The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.
The Pope today reignited the controversy over the Catholic church's stance on condom use as he made his first trip to Africa.
The pontiff said condoms were not the answer to the continent's fight against HIV and Aids and could make the problem worse.
Benedict XVI made his comments as he flew to Cameroon for the first leg of a six-day trip that will also see him travelling to Angola.
The timing of his remarks outraged health agencies trying to halt the spread of HIV and Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, where an estimated 22 million people are infected.
The Roman Catholic church encourages sexual abstinence and fidelity to prevent the disease from spreading, but it is a policy that has divided some clergy working with Aids patients.
The pontiff, speaking to journalists on his flight, said the condition was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".
sad stuff all around
Enfuego, all of these Muslims countries are on fire EVERY DAY OF EVERY YEAR - comparing one loon that made history in the US to what goes on every day in Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Pakistan, etc. is crazy - I understand the Christians murdered millions in the dark ages but it stopped - these people never stop
What do you mean they're on fire every day of every year? And I didn't compare one loon to anything that I know of. Seymour, it's also a country issue as well. These countries allow terrorism to occur within their borders. There aren't consequences for committing terrorist acts so a small fraction operating within certain borders continue their actions.
If people judged entire religions based on mainstream news stories like many do with Muslims they'd think America were a bunch of mentally ill serial killers. Millions were slaughtered in the Crusades by Catholics. The Nazis were mostly Christian and Protestant. Do I judge those entire religions because of the actions of a few? No, because I'm not an idiot. It was only a few years ago that a member of the church killed George Tiller at an abortion clinic. Those things get bombed or lit on fire quite a bit. If that and school shootings were all you ever heard about on the news you'd probably think Americans were a bunch of savages as well.
I'm not much up for debate right now but this would be way more fun for someone to answer if you included the old testament. New testament is much tamer in comparison although I do believe it contains a part where Jesus said it's cool to kill kids who were created because of adultery. All religious texts have their own brand of wackiness to them, some just more than others.
FZ, there are 109 verses in the Koran that discuss violence. The main difference between the Koran and the Old Testament when it comes to the verses of violence is the Koran verses are left open-ended and ultimately left up to the reader to interpret the meaning of the verse. The context of the violent verses are very ambiguous when it comes to the historical context of the verses. The verse interpretation is left up to the reader and the fanatics take the word of Allah as gospel with no historical context whatsoever.
Enfuego,
You're exactly right, the violent verses in the Koran are open-ended. But, think about it, the Koran is, according to Muslims "the literal word of Allah as given to their holy prophet Mohammad."
Well, what did their "holy" prophet Mohammad do with these verses, and how did the "holy" prophet Mohammad interpret the violent commands? He fucking slaughtered, tortured and murdered:
[h=1]List of Killings Ordered or Supported by Muhammad[/h] From WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam
The use of assassination to achieve political/religious goals has been important throughout the history of Arabia and Islamic expansion, and the very word "assassin"[SUP][1][/SUP] has Arabic roots (حشّاشين).
This list contains the results and reasons for the targeted killings and assassinations ordered or supported by Prophet Muhammad, as well as the primary sources which mention these incidents.
[h=2]Contents[/h]
[h=2]List of Killings[/h]
<small><center> Ordered by Muhammad Supported but not ordered by Muhammad Women and/or children Apostates
Reasons including writing or reciting poetry Reasons including "causing offence" Reasons including monetary gain</center></small>
| No. | Name | Date | Reason(s) for Ordering or Supporting Killing | Result | Notable Primary Sources |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 'Asma' bint Marwan | January 624[SUP][2][/SUP] | Kill 'Asma' bint Marwan for opposing Muhammad with poetry and for provoking others to attack him[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] | Asma' bint Marwan assassinated[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] | |
| 2 | Abu 'Afak | February 624[SUP][7][/SUP] | Kill the Jewish poet Abu Afak for opposing Muhammad through poetry[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] | Abu Afak assassinated[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] | |
| 3 | Al Nadr ibn al-Harith | After Battle of Badr March 624[SUP][11][/SUP] | According to Mubarakpuri, Al Nadir was captured during the Battle of Badr. A Qur'an verse was revealed ordering the execution of Nadr bin Harith, he was one of two prisoners who were executed and not allowed to be ransomed by their clans because he mocked and harassed Muhammad and wrote poems and stories criticizing him[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] | Nadr bin Harith beheaded by Ali[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] | |
| 4 | Uqba bin Abu Muayt | After Battle of Badr March 624[SUP][11][/SUP] | Uqba bin Abu Muayt was captured in the Battle of Badr and was killed instead of being ransomed, because he threw dead animal entrails on Muhammad, and wrapped his garmet around Muhammad's neck while he was praying[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] | Uqba bin Abu Muayt beheaded by Asim ibn Thabbit or Ali[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP] |
|
| 5 | Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf | September 624[SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP] | According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad ordered his followers to kill Ka'b because he "had gone to Mecca after Badr and inveighed against Muhammad. He also composed verses in which he bewailed the victims of Quraysh who had been killed at Badr. Shortly afterwards he returned to Medina and composed amatory verses of an insulting nature about the Muslim women".[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP] | Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf assassinated[SUP][21][/SUP] | |
| 6 | Abu Rafi' ibn Abi Al-Huqaiq | December 624[SUP][22][/SUP] | Kill Abu Rafi' ibn Abi Al-Huqaiq for mocking Muhammad with his poetry and for helping the troops of the Confederates by providing them with money and supplies[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP][22][/SUP] | Abu Rafi assassinated[SUP][23][/SUP][SUP][22][/SUP] |
|
| 7 | Khalid ibn Sufyan | 625[SUP][27][/SUP] | Kill Khalid bin Sufyan, because there were reports he considered an attack on Medina and that he was inciting the people on Nakhla or Uranah to fight Muslims[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP] | Khalid ibn Sufyan assassinated[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP] | |
| 8 | Abu 'Azzah 'Amr bin 'Abd Allah al-Jumahi | March 625[SUP][33][/SUP] | Behead Abu 'Azzah 'Amr bin 'Abd Allah al-Jumahi because he was a prisoner of War captured during the Invasion of Hamra al-Asad, that Muhammad released once, but he took up arms against him again[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP] | Abu 'Azzah beheaded by Ali[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP] |
|
| 9 | Muawiyah bin Al Mugheerah | March 625[SUP][33][/SUP] | Kill Muawiyah bin Al Mugheerah, because he was accused by Muhammad of being a spy. He went to Uthman (his cousin) for shelter, and Uthman arranged for his return to Mecca, but he stayed too long in Medina. After Muhammad heard he was still in Medina, he ordered his death[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][36][/SUP] | Muawiyah bin Al Mugheerah captured and executed[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP] |
|
| 10 | Al-Harith bin Suwayd al-Ansari | March 625[SUP][33][/SUP] | Kill Al-Harith bin Suwayd because according to Islamic tradition, Allah revealed Qur'an 3:86, which indicated that those who reject Islam after accepting it should be put to death. Al-Harith bin Suwayd was a Muslim who fought in the Battle of Uhud and killed some Muslims, he then joined the Quraysh and left Islam. Al-Harith sent his brother to Muhammad for his forgiveness. Muhammad allowed his return but then decided to kill him.[SUP][37][/SUP][SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][39][/SUP][SUP][40][/SUP] | Al-Harith bin Suwayd beheaded by Uthman[SUP][37][/SUP][SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][39][/SUP] | |
| 11 | Abu Sufyan | 627[SUP][41][/SUP] | Amr bin Umayyah al-Damri sent to assassinate Abu Sufyan (Quraysh leader)[SUP][42][/SUP][SUP][42][/SUP] | 3 polytheists killed by Muslims[SUP][42][/SUP] |
|
| 12 | Banu Qurayza tribe | February–March 627[SUP][44][/SUP] | Attack Banu Qurayza because according to Muslim tradition he had been ordered to do so by the angel Gabriel.[SUP][45][/SUP][SUP][46][/SUP][SUP][47][/SUP][SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP][SUP][50][/SUP] One of Muhammad's companions decided that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment,[SUP][48][/SUP][SUP][49][/SUP][SUP][51][/SUP][SUP][52][/SUP][SUP][53][/SUP] after which all male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were beheaded[SUP][46][/SUP][SUP][54][/SUP] | Muslims: 2 killed[SUP][45][/SUP] Non-Muslims: | |
| 13 | Abdullah ibn Ubayy | December 627[SUP][41][/SUP] (during Invasion of Banu Mustaliq[SUP][61][/SUP] ) | Kill Abdullah ibn Ubayy, who was accused by Muhammad of slandering his family by spreading false rumors about Aisha (his wife).[SUP][62][/SUP] His son offered to behead him[SUP][63][/SUP][SUP][64][/SUP] | Muhammad calls off assassination and says to Umar "if I had had him (Abdullah bin Ubai) killed, a large number of dignitaries would have furiously hastened to fight for him"[SUP][65][/SUP] Later he reveals a Quran verse forbidding Muslims from attending the funeral of disbelievers and "hypocrites"[SUP][66][/SUP][SUP][67][/SUP] |
|
| 14 | Al-Yusayr ibn Rizam | February 628[SUP][41][/SUP] | Kill Al-Yusayr ibn Rizam because Muhammad heard that his group was preparing to attack him[SUP][68][/SUP][SUP][69][/SUP] | 30 killed by Muslims[SUP][68][/SUP][SUP][69][/SUP] | |
| 15 | Eight men from 'Ukil | February 628[SUP][41][/SUP] | Kill 8 men who came to him and converted to Islam, but then apostatized, killed one Muslim and drove off with Muhammad's camels[SUP][72][/SUP] | Muslims: 1 killed Non-Muslims: 8 tortured to death[SUP][72][/SUP][SUP][73][/SUP] |
|
| 16 | Rifa’ah bin Qays | 629[SUP][75][/SUP][SUP][76][/SUP] | To kill Rifa’ah bin Qays, because Muhammad heard they were allegedly enticing the people of Qais to fight him[SUP][76][/SUP] | 1 beheaded,[SUP][77][/SUP] 4 women captured by Muslims[SUP][78][/SUP] | |
| 17 | Abdullah bin Khatal | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][80][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP] | Kill Abdullah bin Khatal for killing a slave and fleeing, as well and for reciting poems insulting Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][80][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP] | 2 Muslims execute him, after finding him hiding under the curtains of the Ka'aba[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][80][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP] |
|
| 18 | Fartana | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][84][/SUP] | Kill Fartana (a slave girl of Abdullah ibn Khatal), because she used to recite poems insulting Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP] | Fartana is killed[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][84][/SUP] | |
| 19 | Quraybah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Quraybah (a slave girl of Abdullah ibn Khatal), because she used to recite poems insulting Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP] | Quraybah converts to Islam and is pardoned[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][83][/SUP] | |
| 20 | Huwayrith ibn Nafidh | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | When Muhammad's daughters were fleeing Medina, he stabbed their camels, causing injuries. He was a poet who "disgraced and abused" Islam[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][86][/SUP] | Huwayrith ibn Nafidh killed[SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][86][/SUP] by Ali[SUP][79][/SUP] |
|
| 21 | Miqyas ibn Subabah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Miqyas killed a Muslim who accidentally killed his brother, and escaped to Mecca and became an apostate by embracing polytheism[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP][SUP][86][/SUP] | Miqyas killed[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][81][/SUP][SUP][86][/SUP] |
|
| 22 | Sarah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Sarah, because Muhammad claimed that she used to molest him while he was in Mecca[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP] | Conflicting reports: | |
| 23 | Harith ibn Hisham | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Harith ibn Hisham, reason unknown[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP] | According to Ibn Sa'd, Zubayr ibn Abi Umayyah and Harith ibn Hisham both sought refuge in a Muslim relatives house, the relative pleaded with Muhammad for mercy, so he pardoned them on the condition they embrace Islam[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][88][/SUP] | |
| 24 | Zubayr ibn Abi Umayyah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Zubayr ibn Abi Umayyah, reason unknown[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP] | See above result[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP] |
|
| 25 | Habbar Ibn al-Aswad bin Ka`b al-`Ansi | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Habbar ibn al-Aswad because he was a "liar",[SUP][89][/SUP][SUP][90][/SUP] he claimed he was a Prophet[SUP][89][/SUP] | Habbar ibn al-Aswad killed[SUP][89][/SUP][SUP][90][/SUP] |
|
| 26 | Ikrimah ibn Abu Jahl | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Ikrimah ibn Abu Jahl, bcause he was hostile to Muhammad like his father Abu Jahl[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][82][/SUP] | Conflicting reports | |
| 27 | Wahshi ibn Harb | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Wahshi ibn Harb, for killing Muhammad's uncle during the Battle of Uhud[SUP][79][/SUP] | Wahshi ibn Harb pardoned by Muhammad after he asks for forgiveness and offers to convert to Islam[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][93][/SUP] |
|
| 28 | Ka'b ibn Zuhayr ibn Abi Sulama | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Assassinate Ka'b ibn Zuhayr ibn Abi Sulama for writing satirical poems about Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][94][/SUP][SUP][95][/SUP][SUP][96][/SUP] | Ibn Ishaq wrote that Muhammad said "Leave him alone, he has become a repentant Muslim after the disposal of his past.", so he was pardoned[SUP][95][/SUP][SUP][96][/SUP] |
|
| 29 | Al-Harith bin al-Talatil | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | For mocking Muhammad through poetry[SUP][79][/SUP] | Al-Harith bin al-Talatil is killed by Ali[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][97][/SUP] |
|
| 30 | Abdullah ibn Zib'ari | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Abdullah ibn Zib'ari, for writing insulting poems about Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP] | Abdullah ibn Zib'ari repents and converts to Islam, so Muhammad pardoned him[SUP][79][/SUP] |
|
| 31 | Hubayrah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Hubayrah, for mocking Muhammad through poetry[SUP][79][/SUP] | Tabari Volume 39 states, Hubayrah "ran away when Mecca was conquered, and died in Najran as an infidel"[SUP][79][/SUP] |
|
| 32 | Hind bint Utbah | During/after Conquest of Mecca (Jan 630)[SUP][79][/SUP] | Kill Hind bint Utbah (wife of Abu Sufyan) for cutting out the heart of Muhammad's uncle Hamza after he died, during the Battle of Uhud[SUP][79][/SUP] | Tabari said, Hind "swore allegiance and became a Muslim.",[SUP][99][/SUP] she was pardoned by Muhammad[SUP][79][/SUP] | |
| 33 | Amr ibn Jihash (convert to Islam)[SUP][100][/SUP] | During the Invasion of Banu Nadir[SUP][100][/SUP] (Aug 625)[SUP][101][/SUP] | According to Ibn Kathir and Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad said to Yamin bim Umayr, about Amr ibn Jash "Have you seen the way your cousin has treated me and what he proposed to do?"[SUP][102][/SUP][SUP][100][/SUP] Muhammad accused him of trying to assassinate him[SUP][103][/SUP] | Amr ibn Jihash is assassinated after a Muslim offers a reward for his killing[SUP][100][/SUP] |
|
| 34 | King or Prince of Dumatul Jandal | October 630[SUP][104][/SUP] | Attack the chief of Duma for Jizyah and booty[SUP][105][/SUP][SUP][106][/SUP] | 1 killed, 2 taken captive[SUP][107][/SUP] | |
| 35 | Umaiya bin Khalaf Abi Safwan | Unknown | Kill Umaiya bin Khalaf, Muhammad's reason is unknown.[SUP][109][/SUP] But Bilal wanted to kill him for torturing him[SUP][110][/SUP] | Umaiya bin Khalaf killed by Bilal[SUP][109][/SUP][SUP][110][/SUP] | |
| 36 | Blind man's wife/concubine | Unknown | Muhammad supported this killing because the women insulted him[SUP][111][/SUP][SUP][112][/SUP] | Blind Muslim kills his wife/concubine[SUP][111][/SUP][SUP][112][/SUP] | |
| 37 | Ibn Sunayna | Unknown | Muhammad reportedly ordered his followers to "kill any Jew that falls into your power", Muhayissa heard this and went out to kill Ibn Sunayna (a Jew)[SUP][113][/SUP][SUP][114][/SUP] | Ibn Sunayna killed by Muhayissa[SUP][113][/SUP][SUP][114][/SUP] | |
| 38 | Abdullah ibn Sa‘ad | Unknown | Kill Abdullah ibn Sa‘ad, because he became and apostate (left Islam) and fled to Mecca. He also claimed that he was the one who wrote the Qur'an and started to mock Muhammad, which made him angry[SUP][116][/SUP] | A misunderstanding leads to his pardoning. Abdullah ibn Sa‘ad was brought in front of Muhammad and offered his loyalty, Muhammad upheld his hand to indicate that his followers should kill him, but the Muslims thought he pardoned him.[SUP][116][/SUP] He said "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?"[SUP][117][/SUP] | |
| 39 | Ibn an-Nawwahah | Unknown | According to Ibn Kathir, Muhammad once said about Ibn an-Nawwahah "I would have cut off your head, if it was not that emissaries are not killed" because he claimed Musaylimah was a Prophet, so Abdullah ibn Masud killed Ibn an-Nawwahah when he was no longer an emissary[SUP][118][/SUP][SUP][119][/SUP] | Abdullah ibn Masud beheads Ibn an-Nawwahah[SUP][118][/SUP][SUP][119][/SUP] | |
| 40 | Blind Jew | Unknown | Muhammad's followers kill a blind Jew for throwing dust at his face[SUP][121][/SUP][SUP][122][/SUP] | Blind Jew killed by Sa'd ibn Zayd[SUP][121][/SUP][SUP][122][/SUP] | |
| 41 | Nameless spy | Unknown | Kill a man Muhammad suspected of being a spy[SUP][124][/SUP][SUP][125][/SUP] | Salama bin Al-Akwa chases and kills the suspected spy[SUP][124][/SUP][SUP][125][/SUP] | |
| 42 | Man from Aslam tribe | Unknown | Kill a man from the Aslam tribe for Adultery[SUP][126][/SUP][SUP][127][/SUP] | Man from Aslam tribe stoned to death[SUP][126][/SUP][SUP][127][/SUP] | |
| 43 | Kinana ibn al-Rabi | July 628[SUP][128][/SUP] | Torture Kinana ibn al-Rabi to find location of allegedly hidden treasure[SUP][129][/SUP][SUP][130][/SUP] | Kinana ibn al-Rabi beheaded[SUP][129][/SUP][SUP][130][/SUP] |
|
<tbody>
</tbody>
So, Alllah gives the Koran to Mohammad which instructs him to commit violence against infidels, and the "holy" prophet does as instructed in the Koran... but now you want us to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion because the Koran verses are open-ended and Mohammad the "holy" prophet who received the Koran and wrote it down from Allah must have interpreted the verses in the wrong way?
The problem is intrinsic to Islam, because their book and their prophet advocate bloodthirsty killings and violence. I don't think the religion will ever escape this problem, at least not for many centuries.
The problem is intrinsic to Islam, because their book and their prophet advocate bloodthirsty killings and violence. I don't think the religion will ever escape this problem, at least not for many centuries.
