The Proof-Recruiting Rankings matter

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Pretty good article








[h=4]Get the Athlon Sports Newsletter[/h]

[h=3]Do recruiting rankings matter? The answer is a resounding "Yes!"[/h]Don't deny climate change: Recruiting rankings matter


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Don’t be that guy.

Don’t be the old, stodgy curmudgeon who refuses to acknowledge that society moves forward.

Don’t ignore facts, research and statistical data because of some longing for the days of the Wing-T and leather helmets. Don’t let an anecdotal stat about the Super Bowl starting lineups, lazy reporting on the NFL Draft or an undefeated season from Boise State blind you to the truth.

Recruiting matters and so do the rankings. More importantly, this isn’t an opinion.

It’s a fact.

Does it take great coaching, quality development, a conglomerate of hard-working support staffers and even a bit of luck to win a championship? Are recruiting rankings an inexact science filled with busts?

Of course, but to win championships in college football, it takes great players. In general, teams with better players according to the recruiting rankings win more games and players who have more stars are more likely to get drafted.

Again, those aren’t opinions.

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The 2014 College Football Playoff featured three of the top four rosters according to the recruiting rankings. Based on the last five classes, Alabama had the No. 1 roster in the nation in ‘14, Florida State was No. 2 and Ohio State was No. 4 nationally. Oregon wasn’t far behind with the 14[SUP]th[/SUP]-ranked roster in America.

Both Florida State (No. 5) and Auburn (No. 10) had two of the top 10 rosters in the nation a year earlier based on the same criteria and they met in the ’13 BCS title game. In 2011, Alabama and LSU were two of the top three rosters in the nation based on the previous five recruiting classes. They met in the BCS title game that year and only lost to each other. Notre Dame vs. Alabama? Yup, both top-10 rosters.

Additionally, signing the No. 1 class in the nation has historically produced national titles.

Since 2002 (as far back as Rivals.com team rankings go), nearly every team that landed a No. 1 class in the nation eventually won a national championship. Texas signed the top class in 2002 and won a title three years later. LSU signed the top class in 2003 and won two titles with those players. USC inked the top class in 2004 and played in back-to-back title games. Florida won the recruiting championship in 2007 and the BCS championship in '08. Alabama claimed three national championships after winning four recruiting titles in between 2008-12.

Further, every single BCS national champion had at least two top-10 classes in the four years leading up to its championship season.

Still need more?

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The good folks at SB Nation — Matt Hinton and Bud Elliott — have done marvelous work breaking down the statistics as it relates to recruiting rankings. I suggest reading the articles, but the gist of their research reveals two telling and undeniable truths: 1) Teams with better recruiting classes win more games and 2) players with more stars are more likely to be drafted.

Working with the top 75 teams in the nation — the six “BCS” leagues, Notre Dame, Boise State and BYU — Hinton plotted out where those teams ranked in recruiting and what happened when they played each other. In nearly 1,500 matchups between 2010-13, the “higher-ranked team according to the recruiting rankings won roughly two-thirds of the time” and the larger the talent differential, the easier it was to predict wins and losses. To quote the author, "it's a landslide."

Essentially, in a world where it’s nearly impossible to predict outcomes, picking games based purely on star rankings is actually your best bet.

There are roughly 4,500 scholarships signed each National Signing Day with about 30 prospects receiving the heralded five-star ranking. An additional 400 will get four stars while the other 4,000 check in as three- or two-star prospects. So when a stat says only 16 five-stars were drafted against 71 two-stars (like in 2014), it’s utterly lazy reporting.

Elliott provides the real data. The ratios indicate that four- and five-star recruits are 995 percent more likely to be drafted in the first round than a three- or two-star prospect. Additionally, based on the 2014 NFL Draft, a five-star recruit has a 60 percent chance of getting drafted (16 of 27) and a four-star has a 20 percent opportunity (77 of 395). Meanwhile, three-star recruits have just a 5.5 percent chance (92 of 1644) and two-stars/unranked players have less than a three-percent likelihood of getting drafted (71 of 2,434).

I’m no mathematician but 60 is significantly larger than 2.9.

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Three of the best four rosters in the sport, according to the rankings, eventually filled playoff spots this year. Landing the top class has led directly to competing for a national title over the last 10 years. Higher ranked recruiting classes regularly defeat lower ranked classes at nearly a 70 percent clip. And higher ranked prospects are significantly more likely to get drafted by the NFL than lower ranked ones.

Recruiting at an elite level doesn’t guarantee success. Bad coaches underachieve with great players all the time. But no one has won a national title without elite talent.

So if you don’t like glorifying teenagers or pompous announcement ceremonies, that’s fair and totally acceptable. But don’t lie to yourself about the value of the rankings.

Remember, facts not opinions.
 

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Remember, facts not opinions.

this is unacceptable practice on therxforum


posted this link many times but obviously not read by the shortbus riders like bigdaddy. if you want to succeed on the field, recruit well off the field....period
http://regressing.deadspin.com/chart-which-ncaa-football-teams-outplay-their-recruit-1640831522

outside of the Big12 (which happens to have the most 4-5 star busts thanks to Texas) there are just 2 power-5 schools that have outperformed their cumulative recruiting rankings from 2009-2013 by more than 7 spots (wisc, oregon). there is an extremely low probability you'll be a highly rated team without highly rated recruits unless you're a non power-5 school and not in the BCSNCG conversation game anyway
 

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That they were the four best teams on the field aren't facts. It's still opinion even though it's much better than before. I'm not arguing one way or the other, but lets entertain that a TCU or Baylor gets the nod over Ohio State. Now you have the 1, 2, 14 and 32/39 best classes (5 year average). Does the argument still hold water? How about if we applied all those close calls in the BCS era? Hindsight says Ohio State was the right pick, but at the time there were suspicions that once again the blue bloods bias won out for whatever reason...money?, historical bias?....or perceived talent? giving it the edge.
 

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from a linked article inside the athlon piece....

For those who don't like percentages, here are some more intuitive breakdowns based on the numbers from the entire 2014 draft:

  • A five-star recruit had a three-in-five chance of getting drafted (16 of 27).
  • A four-star had a one-in-five chance (77 of 395).
  • A three-star had a one-in-18 chance (92 of 1,644).
  • A two-star/unrated recruit had a one-in-34 chance (71 of 2,434).
If, as many columnists maintain, the chances of a two-/three-star being drafted in the first round are "just about as good as those guys who receive all the attention," we would expect the following results in the first round, based on the distribution of players:

  • Five-stars: Zero or one
  • Four-stars: Three
  • Three-stars: 12
  • Two-stars/unranked: 17
But nobody, not even writers, would expect that result.
The actual breakdown:

  • Five-stars: Four
  • Four-stars: 13
  • Three-stars: 12
  • Two-stars: Three
That's not close to the same.
Four- and five-star recruits were 995 percent more likely to be drafted in the first round than their lesser-ranked counterparts.
 

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That they were the four best teams on the field aren't facts. It's still opinion even though it's much better than before. I'm not arguing one way or the other, but lets entertain that a TCU or Baylor gets the nod over Ohio State. Now you have the 1, 2, 14 and 32/39 best classes (5 year average). Does the argument still hold water? How about if we applied all those close calls in the BCS era? Hindsight says Ohio State was the right pick, but at the time there were suspicions that once again the blue bloods bias won out for whatever reason...money?, historical bias?....or perceived talent? giving it the edge.

problem is you're trying to apply "what if's" over facts and that never works well.

I will absolutely agree the Big 12 is an outlier in most of this but they are the only power-5 who is an outlier...the rest fit quite nicely. and I think it's easy to see why they're an outlier

1) Texas and Oklahoma are the only two schools in the conference to recruit above a #30 level. In ANY conference or division in ANY sport it's easier to outperform expectations when there are only 1 or 2 dominant teams in that category. Simply put, if any team outside of OU or UT won the conference it would be to a 30+ ranked team. In the SEC its damn near impossible for a 30+ ranked team like Vandy or Kentucky to win the title because there are 10 other top 20's sitting in front of them.

2) a lot of the close calls and 2014 stuff are Big 12 teams. Okie St and Kansas St a few years ago, Baylor and TCU this season. As stated above it's much easier for these schools to overperform in that conference because they're largely only playing two top-30 recruiting programs each year. If/when Texas and Oklahoma stop underachieving you'll see that conference align like the rest of them.

I posted this in another discussion but the Big 12 top rated players also have, by far, the worst correlation to NFL tenure. If i remember correctly they're at something like 25% while Pac12 was at 50%. I think a lot of that falls on Texas and their previous recruiting process of having things wrapped up after Soph and Junior camps and sticking with kids who regress in senior season but that's debatable reasoning


here's the 2010-2014 big 12 chart recruiting vs record. IMO toss out WVU and TCU as several years were compiled in mtn west and big east

5-year-Big-12-rankings1.jpg
 

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The "what ifs" are ingrained in an opinion based selection process. The criteria are constantly fluid. If it were conference winners are in type playoff, it would be much more black and white and we could make this argument without much rebuttal.
 

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problem is you're trying to apply "what if's" over facts and that never works well.

I will absolutely agree the Big 12 is an outlier in most of this but they are the only power-5 who is an outlier...the rest fit quite nicely. and I think it's easy to see why they're an outlier

1) Texas and Oklahoma are the only two schools in the conference to recruit above a #30 level. In ANY conference or division in ANY sport it's easier to outperform expectations when there are only 1 or 2 dominant teams in that category. Simply put, if any team outside of OU or UT won the conference it would be to a 30+ ranked team. In the SEC its damn near impossible for a 30+ ranked team like Vandy or Kentucky to win the title because there are 10 other top 20's sitting in front of them.

2) a lot of the close calls and 2014 stuff are Big 12 teams. Okie St and Kansas St a few years ago, Baylor and TCU this season. As stated above it's much easier for these schools to overperform in that conference because they're largely only playing two top-30 recruiting programs each year. If/when Texas and Oklahoma stop underachieving you'll see that conference align like the rest of them.

I posted this in another discussion but the Big 12 top rated players also have, by far, the worst correlation to NFL tenure. If i remember correctly they're at something like 25% while Pac12 was at 50%. I think a lot of that falls on Texas and their previous recruiting process of having things wrapped up after Soph and Junior camps and sticking with kids who regress in senior season but that's debatable reasoning


here's the 2010-2014 big 12 chart recruiting vs record. IMO toss out WVU and TCU as several years were compiled in mtn west and big east

Just a off-topic comment, wouldn't be more productive when analyzing recruiting classes, to break it down by conference like your graph shows, since those are the teams you are playing?

I have a question because Missouri being a former Big 12 team looks like quite the outlier in the SEC. They've been one of the worst recruiting teams yet the have gotten to two straight SEC title games. Georgia, Tenn, So Car are all recruiting circles around them.....I can't help to go back to my comment the other day, also one in which GS made, that midwest kids aren't getting the same kind of attention/analysis as warmer/higher populated regions. Maybe that is the outlier catalyst?
 

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Missouri isn't an outlier. They've performed at a 28th placed level and recruited at a 34th level. With this correlation (+6) it is very good but hardly inconsistent. They are a bit ahead of Vandy (+5) in the SEC who along with Bama (+1.2) and USCe (+0.4) are the only 4 SEC programs to outplay their recruiting. Obviously the higher you're ranked in recruiting, the more difficult it is to overachieve on the field (and easier to underachieve) and Missouri happens to be the top performing SEC team in that correlation but still within just a few places of where you'd expect them to finish. I believe Missouri finished 15th and 5th L2 years ... they put another top 20 in place next year and you can start circling them as an outlier, but 1 or 2 years isn't what I'm talking about...I'm talking about consistently far outperforming your recruiting. If Missouri thinks they'll consistently be a top 15 program with only a 34th recruiting ranking they're wrong.
 

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It would have been a much different story with Mizzou had they been in the West instead of the East. I think they took full advantage of a division that was clearly down this year. And Mizzou probably had their best overall team ever last year, but still got blown out in the SEC CG game, as well as they did this year. All it tells me is how divided the SEC is right now between divisions. If Mizzou had still been in the Big 12 last year i believe they would have won it. I still think it was a bad move going to the SEC. But unlike A$M, at least they landed in the right division for success. At least for now.
 

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i love this type of subject........

to me the % of 5 star guys getting drafted seems low..... BUT there are a certain number of guys that run into serious troubles along the way that brings the % down. and some never even get to a ncaa program

how many guys have been drafted by nil who just stayed in JC? or maybe even couldn't stick there? how long can you play JC for? ... it seems like no one is almost ever drafted who is just JC football? you do have NAIA, canadian, australian, european etc occasionally of course..... does the NFL figure if you can't get your act together to at least get to an NCAA program then you aren't worth the risk? i remember eric swan was a pretty high pick.... i am very familiar with dishon platt (port charlotte near fort myers in florida) who was #1 HS receiver but i never heard of him ever play football again

has anyone ever done a JC all-star team? i know aaron rodgers might be qb.... sorry i didn't google but i've never seen it before
 

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has anyone ever done a JC all-star team? i know aaron rodgers might be qb.... sorry i didn't google but i've never seen it before
top of my head.....keisel, rodgers, mount cody, sCam, Blount, Fairley. In addition to Cody Bama also grabbed a nosetackle after mount, Jesse williams, and an OT, James Carpenter, that were drafted. Certainly Williams not in the class of the others but can't really think of a bunch beyond that. I know K State loves the JUCO tree so I'm sure they've put out some kids
 

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