The NEXT NBA "superteam"

[Mr_Mark]

NBA season pretty much went as predicted before the season started. Maybe not enough credit given to Curry for his underpaid contract and GSW front office for assembling the team. But stars joining up will probably be the new trend and the only way to compete. (which sucks for the fans) Which team will be the lucky landing spot for the next superteam? This report has Boston at the top of the list.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ned-to-land-a-superstar-during-2017-offseason

 

[Bourn]

The Mavs are going to shock the NBA next season. Dirk is gonna be the dirk of old. Take them to win championship. Thank me now or later. Happy Wednesday

 

[TomGshotput]

A few teams have had a shot at Super Teams in recent years. OKC may have been the biggest whiff, getting to one Finals and one Conference Finals with the combination of Durant, Harden, and Westbrook. San Antonio was actually favored over that Thunder team, and was a Ray Allen three pointer away from being the only team other than the Lakers with back-to-back championships this century.

The Celtics definitely have a chance, having Isaiah Thomas for $6 million is huge. But number one picks are not sure things, and Al Horford and Gordon Hayward wouldn't be the greatest return on two max contracts. It feels much closer to the Clippers with Blake Griffin and Chris Paul than it does the Warriors, Cavs, or Heat

 

[ChugsMcGee]

Can I ask what defines a Superteam? Is every great team a Superteam? Is it just a team with a high number of Star/Superstars? Is there a difference between trades and free agency vs acquiring through the draft? Such as:

~2007 Celtics: Drafted Pierce & Rondo acquired Garnett and Allen via TRADE same time
~2010-14 Heat: Drafted Wade got Lebron AND Bosh via FREE AGENCY same time
~2014-17 Cavs: Drafted Irving, TRADED for Love, Lebron via FREE AGENCY same time
~2017 Warriors: Drafted Curry, Green, Thompson, acquired Durant via FREE AGENCY

Were the Warriors a Superteam before Durant? Were the Spurs a Superteam? Celtics and Lakers and Sixers of the 80's? Celtics of the 60's...unsure, but believe that was all through drafting... What about the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe (and Glen Rice or Mitch Richmond maybe) that then add Gary Payton and Karl Malone but DIDN'T win a championship?

Honestly, I think I know, but I guess I really don't. Because it seems Superteams arguably have been around for the life of the NBA.

 

[CarolinaKid]

i do not see anyone beating g state again next yr

 

[TomGshotput]

Can I ask what defines a Superteam?

Better than merely Champion, not quite as good as a dynasty.
Celtics, no
Heat, yes
Cavs, maybe
Warriors, yes

 

[Mr_Mark]

Can I ask what defines a Superteam? Is every great team a Superteam? Is it just a team with a high number of Star/Superstars? Is there a difference between trades and free agency vs acquiring through the draft? Such as:

~2007 Celtics: Drafted Pierce & Rondo acquired Garnett and Allen via TRADE same time
~2010-14 Heat: Drafted Wade got Lebron AND Bosh via FREE AGENCY same time
~2014-17 Cavs: Drafted Irving, TRADED for Love, Lebron via FREE AGENCY same time
~2017 Warriors: Drafted Curry, Green, Thompson, acquired Durant via FREE AGENCY

Were the Warriors a Superteam before Durant? Were the Spurs a Superteam? Celtics and Lakers and Sixers of the 80's? Celtics of the 60's...unsure, but believe that was all through drafting... What about the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe (and Glen Rice or Mitch Richmond maybe) that then add Gary Payton and Karl Malone but DIDN'T win a championship?

Honestly, I think I know, but I guess I really don't. Because it seems Superteams arguably have been around for the life of the NBA.

I agree! I think an argument can be made for this season's Warriors as being the only ever official "superteam". A 73 win team adding an MVP caliber player. Most others consisted of aging/downhill former stars. But who really knows. Hopefully the NBA can be more competitive some day. Even though its always been ruled by a few franchises...

 

[LoCalDallasGuy]

Imagine if Bron & wade sign with Clippers.. and trade griff for melo, then Paul, Bron, Wade and Melo can play together with Jordan at center. Haha.

 

[HacheMan]

Can I ask what defines a Superteam? Is every great team a Superteam? Is it just a team with a high number of Star/Superstars? Is there a difference between trades and free agency vs acquiring through the draft? Such as:

~2007 Celtics: Drafted Pierce & Rondo acquired Garnett and Allen via TRADE same time
~2010-14 Heat: Drafted Wade got Lebron AND Bosh via FREE AGENCY same time
~2014-17 Cavs: Drafted Irving, TRADED for Love, Lebron via FREE AGENCY same time
~2017 Warriors: Drafted Curry, Green, Thompson, acquired Durant via FREE AGENCY

Were the Warriors a Superteam before Durant? Were the Spurs a Superteam? Celtics and Lakers and Sixers of the 80's? Celtics of the 60's...unsure, but believe that was all through drafting... What about the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe (and Glen Rice or Mitch Richmond maybe) that then add Gary Payton and Karl Malone but DIDN'T win a championship?

Honestly, I think I know, but I guess I really don't. Because it seems Superteams arguably have been around for the life of the NBA.

In my opinion all 4 of the above, Celtics, Heat, Cavs, and Warriors all did the exact same thing.

Whether they formed their super-squads by TRADE or by FREE AGENCY is irrelevant, because bottom line is they knew exactly what they were doing, and accomplished it.

They all formed super-teams purposely....period.

Boston started it, LeBron played copycat by "taking his talents to south beach" with Wade & Bosh, then LeBron did it yet again by joining Irving & pressuring the Cavs to get him yet another superstar in Love (among other help).

Durant & the Warriors had just as much right to do the same.

Bottom line is that now LeBron is getting a taste of his medicine & he can't stand it.

As for the other teams you mentioned, i think Shaq & Kobe are the closest to what we've seen the other 4 do.
Although those 2 are probably the most dominant duo ever, there wasn't a third.

Remember, Boston started it with 3 studs, calling it the "Big 3" in Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.

Actually i only consider Durant & Curry Superstars on that Warriors team.

Draymond Green & Klay Thompson are just really good...

 

[shdw01]

Was magic and Kareem and worthy a superteam? Didn't they also have a.c. green Byron Scott, etc?

 

[shdw01]

What about Jordan and pippen and Kerr and kukoc and rodman?

 

[CarolinaKid]

^^^^^^^^^pretty good team they was

 

[ChugsMcGee]

I agree! I think an argument can be made for this season's Warriors as being the only ever official "superteam".

Actually i only consider Durant & Curry Superstars on that Warriors team.

Draymond Green & Klay Thompson are just really good...

Interesting...couple points off this. Remember the early 80's Sixers made the finals in '82 with Dr. J, Mo Cheeks and all-stars like Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones THEN add reigning MVP Moses Malone to win the championship next...that would be there only championship as the key pieces were aging but was the famous "Fo-Fo-Fo" team sweeping the playoffs.

This almost mirrors this years Warriors. Most consider Green and Thompson Super/stars...but how will they hold up over time. There were arguments Green was a top 10/15 player in the league last year. This Sixers team was before my time to really remember, but I can recall Andrew Toney at the end of some benches but never considered him an all-star caliber player. Toney and Bobby Jones have definately not held up over time as All Stars.

The Lakers (who I remember a little better) had Magic, Kareem, Worthy but also Byron, Cooper, (AC Green in later years) and they were great/key pieces but not stars. For the Bulls, Jordan was the only Superstar, Pippen was fringe Super, but just a star in my mind. Ho Grant or Rodman were key pieces but not stars in my mind. Kukoc was key, but off the bench in an Iguodala type role (without the smothering D). Kerr was barely JJ Redick.

I think a lot of Superteams in the moment are about the key pieces we consider great but may just be a piece of the pie/a sum that makes the whole greater. How these players hold up over time may be more of a defining factor later.

 

[devocr]

Interesting...couple points off this. Remember the early 80's Sixers made the finals in '82 with Dr. J, Mo Cheeks and all-stars like Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones THEN add reigning MVP Moses Malone to win the championship next...that would be there only championship as the key pieces were aging but was the famous "Fo-Fo-Fo" team sweeping the playoffs.

This almost mirrors this years Warriors. Most consider Green and Thompson Super/stars...but how will they hold up over time. There were arguments Green was a top 10/15 player in the league last year. This Sixers team was before my time to really remember, but I can recall Andrew Toney at the end of some benches but never considered him an all-star caliber player. Toney and Bobby Jones have definately not held up over time as All Stars.

The Lakers (who I remember a little better) had Magic, Kareem, Worthy but also Byron, Cooper, (AC Green in later years) and they were great/key pieces but not stars. For the Bulls, Jordan was the only Superstar, Pippen was fringe Super, but just a star in my mind. Ho Grant or Rodman were key pieces but not stars in my mind. Kukoc was key, but off the bench in an Iguodala type role (without the smothering D). Kerr was barely JJ Redick.

I think a lot of Superteams in the moment are about the key pieces we consider great but may just be a piece of the pie/a sum that makes the whole greater. How these players hold up over time may be more of a defining factor later.

Good write up Chugs.

 

[HacheMan]

Interesting...couple points off this. Remember the early 80's Sixers made the finals in '82 with Dr. J, Mo Cheeks and all-stars like Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones THEN add reigning MVP Moses Malone to win the championship next...that would be there only championship as the key pieces were aging but was the famous "Fo-Fo-Fo" team sweeping the playoffs.

This almost mirrors this years Warriors. Most consider Green and Thompson Super/stars...but how will they hold up over time. There were arguments Green was a top 10/15 player in the league last year. This Sixers team was before my time to really remember, but I can recall Andrew Toney at the end of some benches but never considered him an all-star caliber player. Toney and Bobby Jones have definately not held up over time as All Stars.

The Lakers (who I remember a little better) had Magic, Kareem, Worthy but also Byron, Cooper, (AC Green in later years) and they were great/key pieces but not stars. For the Bulls, Jordan was the only Superstar, Pippen was fringe Super, but just a star in my mind. Ho Grant or Rodman were key pieces but not stars in my mind. Kukoc was key, but off the bench in an Iguodala type role (without the smothering D). Kerr was barely JJ Redick.

I think a lot of Superteams in the moment are about the key pieces we consider great but may just be a piece of the pie/a sum that makes the whole greater. How these players hold up over time may be more of a defining factor later.

Sounds like you know the difference between a Star & a Superstar. Some people don't.

But if Pippen was only a Star in your opinion, then no way in the world Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, and James Worthy are Superstars & would also only be Stars.

As for Pippen, Worthy, Byron Scott, and others, they were drafted by their teams or traded for same day of the draft.

That is far different than trading for or signing a free agent stud who is already established as a SuperStar, as we see going on these days.

Those 2 things above, being the difference between a Star & Superstar, along with how those players are acquired, thru draft or signed in a different way after they've already proven themselves, are critical to the debate as to if Superteams already existed in the past & how it compares to today.

In my opinion it's very clear that it's extremely different today after Boston started it with Garnett, Pierce, and Allen.

By the way Chugs, i agree with dev above, very nice write-up & fun conversation...:toast:

 

[ChugsMcGee]

I could be biased on Pippen...he pissed me off with his crybaby bullshit during Jordan's hiatus, and I probably want to downplay Pippen greatness in my mind to make Jordan that much better...idk.

But I think it's unquestioned that Pippen, like Thompson, like Irving, probably Worthy...benefit from playing with the Superstar making them able to do their thing and making them APPEAR to be Superstars...could any of those guys carry their own team?? Worthy was past his prime by the time his opportunity came. Pippen was always a piece of the pie. Irving was too young when it was just him to judge. ...Maybe we'll see with Thompson if he chooses to leave.

 

[HacheMan]

But I think it's unquestioned that Pippen, like Thompson, like Irving, probably Worthy...benefit from playing with the Superstar making them able to do their thing and making them APPEAR to be Superstars...could any of those guys carry their own team??

I agree 100% with this analogy.

The NBA (and other sports) consists of 6 tiers of players:

Below Average
Average
Above Average
Good (might be able to scratch this one)
Star
Superstar

There are several stars, but only a few, elite, Superstars.
Superstars are the All-Time greats.

Examples:

Chris Paul - Star
Kyrie Irving- Star

LeBron- Superstar
Durant-Superstar

Other players are borderline & debatable.

Some will argue that James Harden & Stephon Curry are Superstars?

Are they really?

Just look at this Finals Series.

Pretty clear that LeBron & Durant were head & shoulders above the rest...

 

[Mr_Mark]

All great points Chug & Hache.
Could Pippen have been a superstar if not playing on the same team as MJ? I think he finished 2nd in the MVP voting after MJ retired... but I could be remembering that wrong.

 

[Mr_Mark]

Imagine if Bron & wade sign with Clippers.. and trade griff for melo, then Paul, Bron, Wade and Melo can play together with Jordan at center. Haha.

If Griffin could stay healthy I would want him over Melo.
But that Clipper team would be pretty entertaining.

Jerry West is rumored to join the Clipps, he could make it happen!

 

[HarryCaray]

Sounds like you know the difference between a Star & a Superstar. Some people don't.

Do you consider Chris Bosh a superstar? You must, cause you called Kevin Love a superstar above.

To me max contract does not equal superstar.

I'd say of the active players in the league, the only ones i consider superstar status are Bron, KD, Steph, CP3, Wade, Dirk, Melo, Westbrook.