The break down of debate #1

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The debate was 1 hour too long.

We all know Bush is not the greatest public speaker. Several times I would have hammered Kerry when he left himself open when he acted as if he was some sort of supporter of the military. Kerry has a 20 year history of voting against the military, fbi and cia which should have been mentioned.

We all know Kerry served in Vietnam, Kerry mentioned it no less than 5 times which was very annoying. Kerry has a habit of undermining troops in the field, which was not mentioned.

Bush was not on his game and could have hammered Kerry several times, the run out the clock strategy for a 90 minute debate was not the best idea.

Kerry loves the hapless UN, Bush understands reality the UN is worthless.

Kerry is anxious to raise taxes on Americans, Bush knows we're over taxed.

Kerry will say what plays best to the crowd, Bush says what he believes.

Kerry votes for and against on the same issue and the president can only side once.

Kerry believes he can do better after he knows what the play the offense is running. Who wouldn't? Small man.

The most despecible thing Kerry spoke of was NK acquiring NUKES on Bushs watch when he knows it was because of Clinton and the democratic leadership which Kerry was one.

I would have ripped Kerry a new azz on the NK comments.

The bottom line is Kerry will lose big. The liberal media will get excited and some of the forum liberals will claim a huge victory.

I say have fun enjoy the false sense of victory for a few days. When election day comes America will not elect Kerry. Bush wins easy.
 
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ALLENTOWN, Pa. — Here at a principal skirmish line in one of America's key battleground states, Sen. John F. Kerry became a little more presidential Thursday evening, and President Bush was somewhat diminished — at least in the eyes of the majority of the voters who watched the first debate between the two candidates.

About two dozen undecided voters were among 100 people who participated in a panel at Muhlenberg College, a small liberal arts school.

Those in the crowd laughed out loud several times when Bush smirked or stammered, and several undecided voters said afterward that they found Kerry more articulate and decisive.

Beth Buechler, who voted for Bush four years ago and Ronald Reagan before that, said she had been struggling this year with her presidential pick, in large part because she believes the U.S. has become bogged down in Iraq.

But at the end of Thursday's 1 1/2-hour session, she called Kerry the "hands down" winner and predicted that, if elected, he could make "a great statesman."

"I think he was very composed, very dignified and very on point," said Buechler, a secretary at the college, where the group watched the debate on a big-screen TV in a science lecture hall. "After listening to him, I can't believe I was undecided. He did a great job of fleshing out every point."

Bruce Glazier, 60, a credit analyst for a hardware store, said he was uneasy by the president's long pauses and hesitation in answering some questions.

"To be laughing at your president — and it wasn't that he said anything funny — that is not good," said Glazier, an independent who also came into the room undecided. "I wonder how he comes across to the rest of the world when he acts like that.... Is he making the world laugh at him too?"

Many in the audience agreed, however, that there had been no single knockout punch by either candidate, and that they would watch the next Kerry-Bush debate on Oct. 8 closely.

Sally Sayre, a Republican from New Tripoli, said she was impressed by Bush's plans for ending the nuclear threat from North Korea.

"I think Bush is absolutely on the right track to engage North Korea and China and Japan, and to work on a decision that is going to work for the whole region," said Sayre, a high school teacher. "Kerry accuses him of not bringing in enough allies, but he [the president] is absolutely doing it in North Korea."

And Mitch Keating, a 23-year-old who recently graduated from the college, said he heard Kerry repeatedly say he had a better plan for Iraq without outlining that plan. He said the challenger's promises of building international alliances are hollow.

"When Kerry is talking about Bush not having the rest of the world on our side, he is really talking about France and Germany," said Keating, a Republican who voted for Bush four years ago.

"We have Great Britain and Italy and Poland and 50 other countries. We do really have an alliance, and President Bush is right," he said.

People in the audience instantly recorded their impressions of the president and the senator from Massachusetts by punching their responses into numbered keypads. Although the final results will not be released until today, the preliminary findings that flashed on the screen during the debate showed Kerry consistently scoring closer to the "very good" rating. Bush tended to hover closer to average, and sometimes below average.

Chris Borick, the political science professor who arranged the focus group, cautioned that the findings were only a snapshot in time and not an indication of how anyone would vote.

On virtually all of the questions, the audience scored Kerry higher than Bush. The crowd seemed particularly impatient with Bush, groaning audibly when he repeated several times that the rebuilding of Iraq and rooting out of terrorism was "hard work."

One of the biggest disparities in the audience's opinions of the two candidates came when host Jim Lehrer of PBS asked Bush whether the war in Iraq had been worth the cost in lost lives and billions of dollars expended.

Bush talked about how much it hurt him to have to meet with the families of dead service members. But Kerry responded that while he felt great compassion for the "warriors" fighting for the U.S., he wanted to "make sure the outcome honors that nobility." He added: "The president's plan is four words: more of the same. And I think my plan is better."

Bush then stammered and paused for several seconds in his rebuttal, drawing a loud laugh from the focus group.

The long-range impact of the debate was hard to discern. Kerry seemed to have established himself as a more credible candidate than he had been going in, at least with this small crowd in one important electoral corner of the country .

Two other Muhlenberg students, who said they would vote for the first time Nov. 2, were among those who said they had been undecided but would take a harder look at Kerry now.

Jacinda Caras, an English major from Maine, said she was impressed by how articulate and concise Kerry was, although she still remains closer to Bush on issues like abortion.

Mark Grabarits, 22, who grew up in the Lehigh Valley and is now attending law school in Delaware, also came into the evening unable to pick between the two candidates. Although he left feeling Kerry had appeared "presidential," the debate had not made his choice any easier.

"I think there was good information on both sides, and I have to go back and weigh the issues and what is more important to me," said Grabarits, a moderate Republican who said he voted for Bush four years ago. "I think they would both do an excellent job in foreign policy, and it might be the other issues that tip the scale for me. We will have to see."

The voters met in a lecture hall at Muhlenberg College here in the Lehigh Valley, a region with a relatively high concentration of moderate "persuadable" voters who could tip the balance in Pennsylvania, which has 21 electoral votes.

Bush has been working furiously to reverse his 200,000-vote loss in the state four years ago. Most media analysts and Kerry aides cannot construct a winning scenario for the Democrat without a victory in Pennsylvania.

If the importance of this area needed any more emphasis, Bush provided it when he made plans to make his first post-debate stop here. He is scheduled to rally supporters in Allentown late this morning.

After leading here comfortably about the time of the Democratic National Convention in late July, Kerry saw his lead slip away and Bush forge to a narrow advantage. Only in the last couple of weeks has the senator regain a tiny edge in several polls.

Once the home predominantly of German Catholic workers who toiled in the steel mills and other heavy industries, the unemployment rate in Lehigh Valley mirrors that in the rest of America, but voters in recent polls here have mentioned the economy as their biggest concern — even ahead of the war in Iraq.

"Even though a lot of the macro-economic indicators are getting better here, it takes people here a little longer to warm up to that," Borick said. "I think that is an artifact of the rough times as industrialization faded around here."
 

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Kerry saw the same intelligence when he voted for action against Iraq, end of story.

That was Kerrys chance to make a real stand if he really believed Iraq was not a threat.

Kerry is a conman, a vote for Kerry is a vote for a slimball used car salesman.
 
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Kerry says he'll act if it passes the global test. Boys and gals if you want your family to depend on France vote Kerry.
 
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my oh my, how are you going to deal with it when mr. kerry becomes our next president?
 

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You can change tactics, but not beliefs. George W. Bush 9-2004

Wow. That may go down in history.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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GAMEFACE said:
You can change tactics, but not beliefs. George W. Bush 9-2004

Wow. That may go down in history.
Indeed -- right next to "the world is flat." Image if "we could not change beliefs" on that one.

What you have unknowingly quoted is a description of stubborness, not a virtue.
It is a stubborness that has caused Bush to hear only what he wants to hear, to ignore the quagmire in Iraq and ignore high ranking assessments that he could spark Civil War in Iraq.

Pre-Iraq invasion, there were 30+ countries more dangerous and terrorist infested than Iraq. Now, Iraq has leapfrogged to the top --- do you think that is "making the world a safer place"?

I think not, my grossly misinformed countryman -- I think not.
 

RPM

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Iraq Isnt About Terrorism.

Iraq is about having a strong foothold in the middle east. join me for a minute and put on a military thinking cap. now pull out your map of the middle east and take a look at the countries there that now have an american presence.

having our boys and girls in iraq makes the middle east a more "controllable" situation.

people complain about american soldiers dying in iraq. here is a note for those people.... SHUT UP.

those boys and girls knew what they were getting into when they joined the military. they are doing what they are paid to do.... PROTECTING YOUR RIGHT TO BITCH AND MOAN.
 

A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE
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Fishhead said:
I am voting for Nader......the only logical choice.
Now that you have stated who you are going to vote for. Would you please explain WHY??????????. You say, Nader, is the only LOGICAL choice. This forum has to know why this is?
I will be waiting for your explanation.:heh:
 

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GAMEFACE said:
The debate was 1 hour too long.
Yeah you say that because youre joke of a candidate can't hold more than a half hour of talking points in his head. This is just another example of a conservative with no interest in having the issues debated and just have sound bites dominate the election.
GAMEFACE said:
I say have fun enjoy the false sense of victory for a few days. When election day comes America will not elect Kerry. Bush wins easy.
I give you one thing, you lie and put on a good face even in the face of disaster. Bush did horrible last night and you know it. I mean just look at his manerisms and the way he "answered" questions. The guy is a total idiot. He doesnt know what the hell he is talking about. Is it going to be enough for Kerry to win? WHo knows. But like Ive said since forever is that this election is going to be close. Youre "bush wins easy" is nothing but delusional...but then again what do you expect from conservatives who are out of touch with america?
 

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IDENTITY said:
my oh my, how are you going to deal with it when mr. kerry becomes our next president?
you are completely deluded if you think kerry will win. what are you watching? let me guess...cnn?

you're in for a wake up call sister. talk to me in november.
 

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RPM said:
Iraq is about having a strong foothold in the middle east. join me for a minute and put on a military thinking cap. now pull out your map of the middle east and take a look at the countries there that now have an american presence.

You're right. You should, however, ask yourself why the administration will not come out and admit that Iraq is nothing more than a strategic conquest to put military bases in key locations in Iraq. Why, if you can accept this fact, do they not presume that this will be a popular and legitimate motive in the eyes of the rest of the American public?

having our boys and girls in iraq makes the middle east a more "controllable" situation.

USA, GloboCop.

people complain about american soldiers dying in iraq. here is a note for those people.... SHUT UP.

Ah, the sanctity of life ... so beholden to the Right.
 

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I'm voting for Bush. I have to say, John Kerry did an excellent job last night. I did not know he was that sharp of a debater. If my local high school has a debate teaching position open next year, I'll see what I can do, as I know some people. Bush is not a good public speaker, everyone knows that, and he did no better or worse than I thought he would. But the bottom line is that John Kerry is so full of crap about his positions. He's an outright liar when it comes to saying he has had one position on Iraq. What a crock of ****.
 

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lander said:
What you have unknowingly quoted is a description of stubborness, not a virtue.
It is a stubborness that has caused Bush to hear only what he wants to hear, to ignore the quagmire in Iraq and ignore high ranking assessments that he could spark Civil War in Iraq.
100% agreement there. Maybe Shrubby still belives in the "tooth fairy or Santa Claus, like GF does?"
Belief systems are dynamic and are constantly evolving and adjusting to the information we process, and the truths that are exposed.
Fundamental core VALUES would have been the better term, but in Bush's case that would have been asking for way too much.
 

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Posted by GAMEFACE: "The debate was 1 hour too long."

Was the debate 59 minutes long last night?

Good thing there were two football games on....
I watched two meaningful and honest football being played while some of the people chose to watch two meaningless candidates babble on with thier phony rants about helping the public and lowering taxes and abolishing the national debt.....play football or play the American people....

Any chance of the networks scheduling these debates for Saturday afternoons opposite College Gameday and some really good tv on ESPN????

Maybe when the debates are over and you guys go to the voting booth to jerk the handle for the loser of choice, you can jerk off for me too.....:biglaugh:
 

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The questions were stacked against Bush, not one question directed at Kerrys poor record of voting to defund the cia, fbi and the military. Now Kerry is suppose to be the biggest supporter of the cia and the military, it's just not true.
 

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