The auto industry should not be given financial

[Willie99]

assistance without concessions from the UAW.

I'm not opposed to some low interest loan, but I am opposed to giving a blank check to maintain the status quo.

The companies have to be required to reduce costs across the board, replace failed management, negotiate union contracts that enable them to be competitive in a global economy and receive relief from regulations that drive their costs up.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

assistance without concessions from the UAW.

I'm not opposed to some low interest loan, but I am opposed to giving a blank check to maintain the status quo.

The companies have to be required to reduce costs across the board, replace failed management, negotiate union contracts that enable them to be competitive in a global economy and receive relief from regulations that drive their costs up.

Chapter 11 is what they should be getting. ope:

 

[BetIt]

Agree 100%

No blank check and throwing money there.

Lot of strings need to be attached to any financial assistance

 

[AdamSelene]

Why would you loan $50 billion to two companies (GM & Ford) that have a combined market capitalization of $6.14 billion, and have a negative net worth greater than the loan amount (GM has net worth of negative $60 billion).

It would be an AIG/Fannie/Freddie style bail-out, whose purpose is only to save debt holders at taxpayer expense, and the companies (GM/Ford) are going to continually come back for more money.

Chapter 11 is a requirement.

 

[tiznow]

once you starting handing out gobs of money (the banks and financial industry)

people gonna line up

its only natural

what i find hilarous is bank CEOs who's failing businesses got a injection judging other industries

i agree with him but that's besides the point

-----------------------------------

BofA CEO: There are '1 too many' Detroit 3 members
Tuesday November 18, 3:07 pm ET
By Jeff Karoub, AP Business Writer
Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis says 'there are 1 too many' Detroit automakers

DETROIT (AP) -- Two of the struggling Detroit Three automakers should combine and prove to the government they are worthy of a $25 billion rescue package being considered for them, Bank of America Chief Executive Kenneth Lewis said Tuesday.

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"There are one too many" automakers, Lewis said, adding that he would require consolidation if he was deciding on a bailout.

"I think the American people are suspect of just giving more money and buying more time," Lewis told reporters after a speech to the Detroit Economic Club. "They want to see that the companies have in fact changed and the strategies have changed."

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson told Congress earlier in the day the administration remains firmly opposed to dipping into the government's $700 billion financial bailout fund for General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.

Auto executives insist they need $25 billion in emergency bridge loans to avert a collapse of one or more of their companies.

Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America has received $25 billion in government funds as part of the bailout effort aimed at rescuing the financial system. Nine large banks, including Bank of America Corp., Wells Fargo & Co., Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co., received $125 billion last month.

Despite the losses automakers would suffer in the short term, Lewis said consolidation should be seen as positive in the long term.

"If those things save it, then they should be real happy," he said. "You can either be happy for a short period of time or moderately happy for a long time. I'm just trying to make sure the industry survives, with so-called `tough love.'"

On Nov. 7, GM said it suspended talks to acquire Chrysler from majority owner Cerberus Capital Management LP. GM said that while the combination would create significant cost savings, it wanted to focus on its cash-flow issues. The automaker warned that it may reach the minimum amount of cash required to run the company before the end of this year.

 

[rolltide]

I read an article that said GM loses money on every car they make based on the amount of their healthcare costs alone. Why would you bail out such a screwed up organization?

I just heard today that my lovely governer Rendell (Dem) said that PA state taxes are "ridiculously low" and he will make sure they are "competitive" by the time he leaves office in 2 years. F these people

 

[Stocks]

I agree Willie you have to fix the union or you'll be in the same situation again down the road.

Non union Toyota works get $48 and hour with the price of benifits included while GM workers get $72 so how can GM ever compete.

 

[roadreeler57]

Chapter 11 & thats it I hope

 

[Coldweather]

I think the Auto industry should get the free money so they can continue to make new cars for the hard working Republicans people to buy them if they want to. This would be also good for the poor people so they can get some good used cars cheaply if they can afford them when they need one to drive their children to school.

:cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::toast:

 

[Dave007inVegas]

I read an article that said GM loses money on every car they make based on the amount of their healthcare costs alone. Why would you bail out such a screwed up organization?

I just heard today that my lovely governer Rendell (Dem) said that PA state taxes are "ridiculously low" and he will make sure they are "competitive" by the time he leaves office in 2 years. F these people

I lived in Pa. for fifty years, state taxes are "ridiculously low"? Their was a time when Pittsburgh was headquarters to most of the Fortune 500 companies. They have since moved to greener pastures. The tax mentality never ceases to amaze me.

 

[punter]

2 strong conservatives have brought up Chapter 11. You are aware that is asking for government intervention and adding an extra layer of expense.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

2 strong conservatives have brought up Chapter 11. You are aware that is asking for government intervention and adding an extra layer of expense.

Punter, let them file Chp 7 for all i care and let them liquidate everything. Fuck them. They are uncompetitive for a slew of reasons but reason numeral uno is that...the cars suck cock. End of story. They dont hold up nor resale as high as cars from outside of the US and of course the problems with the unions. I used to be an iron worker, i know first hand how unions slit their throat with outrageous demands and unrealistic expectations. Im all for organized labor, all for it. But the reality is you cant look at the company as an enemy and that is the case for most unions im afraid.

 

[AdamSelene]

2 strong conservatives have brought up Chapter 11. You are aware that is asking for government intervention and adding an extra layer of expense.

Chapter 7 is fine with me.

Extra layer expense compared to what? Shareholders need to get wiped out, and debt holders too, union contracts need to be broken, pensions and medical obligations wiped out.

Any bankruptcy chapter is fine with me, any pre-bankruptcy capital injection is just bailing out debt holders, management bonuses and christmas parties.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

I read an article that said GM loses money on every car they make based on the amount of their healthcare costs alone. Why would you bail out such a screwed up organization?

I just heard today that my lovely governer Rendell (Dem) said that PA state taxes are "ridiculously low" and he will make sure they are "competitive" by the time he leaves office in 2 years. F these people

Fuck Easy Ed. Im sure the state tax corporate being the highest in the country is to low as well. Fucking asshole is driving out more business everyday. 41% when you combine with federal, not only the highest tax in the nation, how about the world. Real competitive EDDY! You PRICK. What a fucking joke.

 

[punter]

Chapter 7 is fine with me.

Extra layer expense compared to what? Shareholders need to get wiped out, and debt holders too, union contracts need to be broken, pensions and medical obligations wiped out.

Any bankruptcy chapter is fine with me, any pre-bankruptcy capital injection is just bailing out debt holders, management bonuses and christmas parties.

Expenses for the chapter 11 are tacked on. Trustees and their lawyers court cost etc.

 

[punter]

I'm not saying chapter 11 isn't the answer or part of it, it just seems strange to hear guys claiming to be conservative asking for government interference. Of course Roadie is not really a conservative because he wants the government to control all facets of everyone's life.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

I'm not saying chapter 11 isn't the answer or part of it, it just seems strange to hear guys claiming to be conservative asking for government interference. Of course Roadie is not really a conservative because he wants the government to control all facets of everyone's life.

Punter, like i said...i could care less what happens with these 3. I dont want a bailout but i could care less if they failed. If these company file for bankruptcy i dont have a problem with it, who am i to say who should or shouldn't be able to file. I mean if this starts companies starting to file for bankruptcy, then so be it, but i highly doubt it. Bailouts are just that...blank checks, and everyone gets in line.

 

[AdamSelene]

You are aware that is asking for government intervention and adding an extra layer of expense.

Bankruptcy is not government intervention. With the exception of banks (via the FDIC), the government cannot force a private company into bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a civil dispute between a company and its creditors (creditor can force a company into bankruptcy). In some cases Chapter 11 can protect creditors better than Chapter 7, all depends on liquidation value versus restructured profit potential.

Now, the civil court system for dispute resolution is a part of our governmental organization, and I'm quite willing to entertain ancap arguments for private systems of dispute resolution and arbitration... however bankruptcy does not constitute a government intervention per se.

 

[Dodgingpotholes]

assistance without concessions from the UAW.

I'm not opposed to some low interest loan, but I am opposed to giving a blank check to maintain the status quo.

The companies have to be required to reduce costs across the board, replace failed management, negotiate union contracts that enable them to be competitive in a global economy and receive relief from regulations that drive their costs up.

I thought you were a conservative? WHy should the US tax payers help poorly run companies? What happened to the free market system?

 

[3peet]

Let em fall I say. They've made gas, guzzling, shitty products for 20 years. If they get any bailout, maybe the oil industry should write the check.

The question is how confident are we that this money would even be properly spent to reform the fucking factories? I myself think the money will be used for parachutes.