Syracuse +6.5 Minnesota, why not?

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Like everyone, Minnesota -6.5 Syracuse stood out early as an easy line. A decent Minnesota team traveling to a pushover Syracuse team, and only need to win by a TD to cover. Well 85% of the betting public and looks like everyone else on this forum, seemed to agree. Then I really looked at this Minnesota team closer.

Minnesota started hot last year and really burst on to the scene. Then faded fast. The first thing that caught my eye was the thrashing they took from Kansas. It was anticipated to be a fairly decent game but Minnesota got wiped off the field. Then I looked at more. They lost to a hapless Michigan team, at home, by 23 and then they got absolutely murdered by Iowa 55-0. Two of their wins from their hot 7-1 start were against Montana State and Northern Illinois early. Both of these games they won, barely. In fact Montana State and NIU both played them straight up with both games very close in the yardage department. That's a pretty weak resume imo. That is two games where they played to the level of really poor teams, and 3 games where they got destroyed.

I'm well aware of Weber and Decker. Decker is a fantastic athlete, and is a great college player and he certainly makes Weber look good. I don't think I'd want him by himself winning a game for my team. The running game was poor, and who knows where the answer is coming from this year. They also have a question mark at OL. Add on top of this a huge change in style. They are going from a spread team to a pro style, I believe, in a hope to improve their running game. I don't know what favors this will do for them early.

Their defense is alright, but lose their best player, Willie VanDeSteeg at DE and now have unknowns at DE. No other play makers on this defense to write home about, but it's worth nothing they weren't that good last year, ranking #93 in pass D and #80 in total defense.

Syracuse is now perceived as the weak team that has probably been the worst team in all of the big 6 conferences. They certainly racked up the losses last year, but on close inspection they were in a lot more games then I thought. First off, they won at Notre Dame, which is still decently impressive despite them only being 6-6 tehy were still a team with a good passing attack that the cuse were able to contain. Furthermore, Syracuse led Pitt 24-13 in the 3rd before eventaully falling and was down 7-6 at west virginia going into the 4th. That is pretty impressive against two pretty good teams. Also, they did beat Louisville at home, which is not the worst in the world.

To start, their OL is a little bit of a question mark but they have 3 returning starters on OL so it's not hopeless. They did run the ball well last year, so they can't be too bad. In addition, they have good skill players. Mike Williams returns after missing last year and Antown Bailey is a very good back who was the hero of the Notre Dame game. The most publicized aspect of this team is the naming of Greg Paulus the starter at QB and most have looked at this as a bleak sign that they have to take a PG who hasn't played in years and made him right away the starter. Well, if you think about it, he did unseat Cameron Dantley who would have been a senior returning starter. While Dantley wasn't that good, it certainly means something that Paulus was able to step in and grab the position so his talent is still there. That makes a good running game, good skill players and now a serviceable passing game to make a balanced offense.

The one thing that stands out on defense is Arthur Jones who is a fantastic player and one of the best NT in the country. He is a force in the middle on the D-Line and really is a difference maker. This could be big against a shaky Minnesota OL in a new system in the first game. I definitely think this could be a key matchup. There was a lot of position switches over the offseason and it could only be a good thing for a defense that wasn't that good last year. Nick Chestnut returns after a year long suspension at corner and the secondary could be upgraded to counter Minnesota's passing attack.

The upgrade in attitude from a new coach could be just what Syracuse needs to pull off the first game home mini-upset, and I think going agaisnt the grain here and taking the points could be a good play. Anyone here with me?
 

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No, but I'll be there rooting for my Orange!

Nick Chestnut was released from the team for a 2nd time in the spring...again for academics. Our 2nd string soph safety Dorian Graham just went down for the year leaving our secondary a bit thin. Our DL is going to be our strong point this season and there was talk we might run a majority nickel package to counter Minny's passing game and to make up for our lack of depth at LB. We still can - but that would mean a few freshman (Shamarko Thomas and Phillip Thomas) have to step up. Marrone has constantly been talking the two up and they've been getting reps with the first team - but they're still green. Minny is going to have to run the ball well and tire us out. Just not sure how much luck they'll have running in the new system against Art Jones and Co. If they can this could turn into a bloodbath.

Everyone knows Weber and Decker are great talents...but overall I think this Minny team is getting a little too much credit (I understand a lot of it is because they're facing the lowly Orange.) They ranked 119 LY (dead last) in terms of yards allowed...against a 79th ranked SOS. Aside from losing VDS on the DL...they lost their best defensive back in Tramaine Brock to academics.

I'm not worried about our offense. Mitch Browning stopped in for a year and was able to produce a 1,000 yard rusher with a somewhat patchwork OL. Not to mention Brinkley was basically our 2nd string RB and we had no presence of a passing game. Delone Carter missed 07 with a dislocated hip and spent most of 08 working back to full form. He's back at 100% and seems ready to live up to the lofty standards he came in here with. Add Bailey and Collier into the mix and thats a pretty potent backfield. Mike Williams is back to keep defenses honest (along with Sales and Davis) and looking to continue his 10 game scoring streak he left off at as a Soph.

Syracuse also was a lot more competetive last year than most think:

- Held lead early in 3Q against N'Western and were down 16-10 late before SU QB Robinson threw a pick six late in the third 3Q to give N'Western all the momentum. Syracuse couldn't do much after that..our QB Robinson was responsible for 9 of N'Westerns points and benched afterwards.

- No reason SU should have lost to Akron...but were tied at 28 in the 4Q. An INT by Akron lead to them taking a 35-28 lead midway and then as SU was driving after they were stopped on a questionable 4th down measurement on Akron territory. Akron added a garbage TD late.

-Pitt...like you said - held 24-16 lead going into fourth.

-West Virginia. Went for the 1D/TD in WVU red zone instead of FG (would have trailed 10-9 with 4 minutes.) Failed...then goal line blitz failed and Devine broke off 92 TD run to finish the game.

-Trailed USF by a TD at half and then shut down. Abandoned ground game.

-Led Rutgers 14-0 early and then couldn't complete a pass. QB's went 5/19 to finish the game.

-Trailed UConn by TD at half. Then shut down - again because of QB play - 6/23 with 3 INT's

People question why we're letting a guy play QB who hasn't played in 4 years...and why last years QB's are playing TE and 3rd string. Well - it couldn't be worse than last year at QB. The #'s speak for themselves.

And sorry to Minny backers who think I'm pumping up the Orange too much. I'm not. I've just had to deal with 10 wins in 4 years and am excited for a new and hopefully better page for SU Football
 

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Delta, Here's What I'd Do If You Feel This

strongly about this game. Bet the house!! In fact if we can arrange it somehow, how about you & I for $500, you have such a strong argument? for the Cuse, I'll take the GG SU. OK? Should be no problem, as I can see you REALLY KNOW WTF you're talking about when it comes to CFB.
 
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Cuse hung in with a few teams last year....but half of that terrible team is gone. Cuse is a mess right now. Its a battle of two bad teams...but IMO, cuse is far worse
 

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Did not hear you mention Marqueis Gray's name? He may be a factor worth considering.
 

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Did not hear you mention Marqueis Gray's name? He may be a factor worth considering.


He looked awful in their scrimmage during the few plays I saw...I can see him as a "change of pace" guy to run a version of the wildcat...but his passing needs some revising...not sure of his final #'s from the scrimmage but from what little I saw....wasn't good.
 

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No, at best it's a game to avoid betting on because of Minn. uncertainty. I don't think there's any way you can legitimize betting on SU right now.
 

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strongly about this game. Bet the house!! In fact if we can arrange it somehow, how about you & I for $500, you have such a strong argument? for the Cuse, I'll take the GG SU. OK? Should be no problem, as I can see you REALLY KNOW WTF you're talking about when it comes to CFB.
Are people serious when they make dumb posts like this? I didn't call you out, I didn't insult your mother. I don't feel strongly about this game, I was presenting a different angle than which was most discussed on here. Why would I bet you SU even money on this game? Retarded proposal.
 

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Are people serious when they make dumb posts like this? I didn't call you out, I didn't insult your mother. I don't feel strongly about this game, I was presenting a different angle than which was most discussed on here. Why would I bet you SU even money on this game? Retarded proposal.

He's Minnesota Homer, don't pay any attention. I liked your point and even though I'm going with Minny, I don't think this will be as easy of a cover as some. To me the GG should win by 2 scoress so we'll see...
 

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No, but I'll be there rooting for my Orange!

Nick Chestnut was released from the team for a 2nd time in the spring...again for academics. Our 2nd string soph safety Dorian Graham just went down for the year leaving our secondary a bit thin. Our DL is going to be our strong point this season and there was talk we might run a majority nickel package to counter Minny's passing game and to make up for our lack of depth at LB. We still can - but that would mean a few freshman (Shamarko Thomas and Phillip Thomas) have to step up. Marrone has constantly been talking the two up and they've been getting reps with the first team - but they're still green. Minny is going to have to run the ball well and tire us out. Just not sure how much luck they'll have running in the new system against Art Jones and Co. If they can this could turn into a bloodbath.

Everyone knows Weber and Decker are great talents...but overall I think this Minny team is getting a little too much credit (I understand a lot of it is because they're facing the lowly Orange.) They ranked 119 LY (dead last) in terms of yards allowed...against a 79th ranked SOS. Aside from losing VDS on the DL...they lost their best defensive back in Tramaine Brock to academics.

I'm not worried about our offense. Mitch Browning stopped in for a year and was able to produce a 1,000 yard rusher with a somewhat patchwork OL. Not to mention Brinkley was basically our 2nd string RB and we had no presence of a passing game. Delone Carter missed 07 with a dislocated hip and spent most of 08 working back to full form. He's back at 100% and seems ready to live up to the lofty standards he came in here with. Add Bailey and Collier into the mix and thats a pretty potent backfield. Mike Williams is back to keep defenses honest (along with Sales and Davis) and looking to continue his 10 game scoring streak he left off at as a Soph.

Syracuse also was a lot more competetive last year than most think:

- Held lead early in 3Q against N'Western and were down 16-10 late before SU QB Robinson threw a pick six late in the third 3Q to give N'Western all the momentum. Syracuse couldn't do much after that..our QB Robinson was responsible for 9 of N'Westerns points and benched afterwards.

- No reason SU should have lost to Akron...but were tied at 28 in the 4Q. An INT by Akron lead to them taking a 35-28 lead midway and then as SU was driving after they were stopped on a questionable 4th down measurement on Akron territory. Akron added a garbage TD late.

-Pitt...like you said - held 24-16 lead going into fourth.

-West Virginia. Went for the 1D/TD in WVU red zone instead of FG (would have trailed 10-9 with 4 minutes.) Failed...then goal line blitz failed and Devine broke off 92 TD run to finish the game.

-Trailed USF by a TD at half and then shut down. Abandoned ground game.

-Led Rutgers 14-0 early and then couldn't complete a pass. QB's went 5/19 to finish the game.

-Trailed UConn by TD at half. Then shut down - again because of QB play - 6/23 with 3 INT's

People question why we're letting a guy play QB who hasn't played in 4 years...and why last years QB's are playing TE and 3rd string. Well - it couldn't be worse than last year at QB. The #'s speak for themselves.

And sorry to Minny backers who think I'm pumping up the Orange too much. I'm not. I've just had to deal with 10 wins in 4 years and am excited for a new and hopefully better page for SU Football
sounds like we are seeing a lot of the same things but even as a SU fan you aren't very optimistic of their chances in this game?
 

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Both teams are trash, bet on this game at your own risk.

Don't like the word trash...but I guess I agree with you. Theres just too many ?'s in this game to place a confident wager on the line. Do think the over is money though.
 

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sounds like we are seeing a lot of the same things but even as a SU fan you aren't very optimistic of their chances in this game?

I am - but not necessarily in a betting sense. I've seen some pretty bad football from my Orange over the past few years. The changes Marrone have made in the past 8 months have been astronomical. As a diehard fan the changes I see are a lot bigger than someone who watches the game but doesn't follow the Orange extensively. The improvements I see in the team might not really play much of a difference in this game alone..like I've said - the rebuilding road is long. I'm more excited for the future in general than this one individual game.

I for one am not thoroughly impressed with Minnesota - and as bad as the records have been - the Orange return a lot of skilled players at the starting positions. Obviously depth is a major issue. I could see the Orange winning as many as 7 games and as few as two. Thats the type of team we have. All depends on how the players respond to the systems (after being churned through multiple coordinators every year) and their health/endurance.

I just think theres too many ? marks in this game and better games to wager on. Both teams are going to be under new OC's and DC's. How can you really cap a team if you don't really know what you're going to get. Minny might have the players - but will they adapt the system in week 1? Same goes for the Orange.
 

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I just went through the NCAA football injury and losses reports and I see (4) LB's for Syracuse on that list. Mele started 12 games LY and was the 3rd leading tackler on the team. Hines and Cantey were penciled in as starters at one time and converted WR Sheeran transferred to U Mass with Cantey. That has to hurt especially in the opener against a very experienced offensive team with a a proven QB. Does anyone know more about their LB situation.
 

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I just went through the NCAA football injury and losses reports and I see (4) LB's for Syracuse on that list. Mele started 12 games LY and was the 3rd leading tackler on the team. Hines and Cantey were penciled in as starters at one time and converted WR Sheeran transferred to U Mass with Cantey. That has to hurt especially in the opener against a very experienced offensive team with a a proven QB. Does anyone know more about their LB situation.

Mele and Cantey would have brought experience - but neither were very good. Mele was well known for missed tackles and poor angles. Sheeran and Hines (converted JUCO Safety) never played a down in Orange at LB. Sheeran left because he wanted to play WR and Hines because he was 3,000 miles away from home and didn't want to put in the work. Starting at LB will be Derrell Smith (probably our best LB) - Doug Hogue (converted RB - recruited at LB by Penn St. Mich and Pitt but came to 'Cuse to play RB) and freshman EJ Carter. All have great speed...but our only starting LB with experience is Smith. Going to be very thin as well. Don't be surprised to see a majority of nickel packages to keep our LB's fresh and try to force Minny to run the ball. Lot of faith in this years DL - probably our best overall unit on the team.
 

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good post Delta

Lots of good analysis. THe Gophers were terrible most of last year. Don't worry about that yahoo from MSP.
 

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There was a time when I used to have lots of respect for Syracuse at the Carrier Dome----but that was several years ago, -------No play on this game for me
 

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