Sports Betting vs Stock Market Betting?

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

I don't own any stocks, so may be very very ignorant in this area. But it seems to me that the principle of finding what one thinks of as "value" to be the key to success in both activities.

If everybody (for instance likes the Lakers at - 12 and the sportsbooks seek to balance by increasing to -12.5 -13 -13.5; etc then you only have value if you were on them (assumming they were your choice) at -12. There would not be the value at -13 etc. (Please don't bring up middling here--that's not my stick)
Now the same thing in buying stocks: If Company XYZ is selling at 5.00 a share and you buy at that price and it goes to 6.00 a share; I would assume you could sell and make a profit? But if you bought at $6.00 a share you would have to think there is value here and that it will go up in price? So you need "inside information" that is not readily available to the general public. Is this not allmost exactly what the sports books and bettors do?

Fishhead · May 26, 2004

That is exactly what it is.

Before betting on stocks became LEGAL, brokers had to convince the federal government that trading stocks was a true MARKET.

When they did so, it all became legal throughout the entire country.

Sportsbetting is for all practical purposes the samething, a sports market.

This is really evident with the betting exchanges that handle sportsbetting.

Again, you are right on the money, good post!

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

Thanks for your comments, Fishhead

I've been trying to figure in my mind WHY the sports leagues (it is reported) do not approve of betting on their sports. The conclusion I come to is that they are AFRAID of player confidentiality being exploited.

But don't folks ask question about the owners of a stock before they buy it?

Illini · May 26, 2004

I think that the leagues SAY they don't people to make wagers on their games. It sounds good for them to say that, and they pat themselves on the back for doing so. But sports would not be as popular, at least as a whole, if people didn't bet on the games. For example, I don't even have a favorite NFL team, but the NFL is by far my favorite pro sport. I think a lot of people are like this. As far as inside information goes, I think the players make enough money and don't give a damn about the wagering. I may be wrong in a few isolated cases, but most of them have no reason to care or get involved. And you don't need inside information on stocks, you can do really well by studying, just like in sports. It's illegal anyway, and Martha Stewart has taught us not to mess with that.

Woody0 · May 26, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by FISHHEAD:
Sportsbetting is for all practical purposes the samething, a sports market.

This is really evident with the betting exchanges that handle sportsbetting.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely. I keep thinking that one day someone will be able to convince the US Federal government of this truth.

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

All of this, brings one back to Square No.1.

The powers that be in Nevada, do NOT WANT sports wagering to expand beyond their borders.

Call it Corporate Greed. Martha Stewart knows about that!

Illini · May 26, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Woody0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by FISHHEAD:
Sportsbetting is for all practical purposes the samething, a sports market.

This is really evident with the betting exchanges that handle sportsbetting.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely. I keep thinking that one day someone will be able to convince the US Federal government of this truth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The difference between the two is that sportsbetting does not provide an economic function. The stock market provides liquidity for executives, employees, and all shareholders to convert shares into cash. We're never going to win that argument, because the two are not the same. We're going to have to win it by proving that it's a noble pastime, and good entertainment. Just like casinos and horse tracks.

rscl31 · May 26, 2004

Doesn't the stock market have an historic trend of increasing, while the sports market is just a bunch of individual games.

Fishhead · May 26, 2004

The main thing that will always hold it back is the potentially more widespread possibilities of games being fixed by the athletes.

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

"Fixed by the athletes" Are you kidding? On the professional level--Just HOW MUCH $ would it take? Today's athlete makes a KILLING!!! Why would they risk it!

The same can't be said for company xyz.

Fishhead · May 26, 2004

oldman- That is just ONE sport your talking about......the NFL.

Even so, there are many players in the league that do not make an abundant sum of money.

Overall, the integrity of the games is a BIG LOOPHOLE in making this more of a legitimate market.

In fact, it is the main reason that would/is keeping more from lobbying a hell of alot more for it..........myself included.

Fishhead · May 26, 2004

Sorry, I just saw where you said ALL professional athletes.

Doesnt make any difference.

Every major professional sport has individuals that are not making a ton of money.

Plus, you still have ALL the amatuer sports.

Illini · May 26, 2004

I don't know how horseracing jumped over that hurdle. I mean, the mob has routinely bought off jockeys, and the ONLY reason the sport exists is for gamblers. Yet, I can drive 5 minutes to an OTB and place a wager on any horse I want to, all day every day.

gopherbob · May 26, 2004

i would say there are more unreported cases
of insider trading than point shaving.
also the only people that are effected by point
shaving are people that wagered on that particular game and knew of the possibility before placing such bet, while the people effected by insider trading alot of the time had no choice in the matter, such as owners of retirement
accts, mutual funds, etc.

Fishhead · May 26, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by boblynch:
i would say there are more unreported cases
of insider trading than point shaving.
also the only people that are effected by point
shaving are people that wagered on that particular game and knew of the possibility before placing such bet, while the people effected by insider trading alot of the time had no choice in the matter, such as owners of retirement
accts, mutual funds, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know something, that is a very good point!

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

Illini--You have hit it on the head. Horseracing is legal in probably half the states today. Jobs-$ Jobs-$ Jobs-$. Etc.

Now with Sports wagering--how many states? Humm.

Stock Market--Martha got caught with here hands in the cookie jar. She's high profile. I think this goes on far MORE than you expect!

Also--what is the average salary in MLB today? How about the minimum?
Does company xyz have that minimum in place?

TheGeneral+ · May 26, 2004

I have been told many times that I should spend more time in the market and less time logged into sportsbooks.

SportsBettingTrivia.com · May 26, 2004

Stocks..Sports..Great study in comparison..

I believe the amount of insider information greatly outweighs the scandals that erupt from point shaving..

I tell this story..

I had a great player..He would play the market all day, and then at night bang away in sports..On a Friday I was in his office either paying or collecting, I dont remember..he gets a call, from his broker..his options on a stock had expired and he lost all of his investment..The night before he went to sleep in the $, and friday at 4 was a brokester in this trade..A whisper, from a voice on the fone, and he was finished..The fone went crashing against the wall, and he was quite upset..(many months earlier a 60 inch set in his LR took a bottle of DP)..so anyway....

He looks at me with disgust..he says Barry..At least in Football I am up 6 with 10 seconds on the clock..I at least see the guy run the ball down the field and see it explode in front of me..at double or nothing..This way I get a call..dont know what happenned..but I exploded..GIVE ME FOOTBALL..He never bought another stock..

Its an extreme case, but read thru the lines..In sports gambling you have clear vision and see the game develop..You live it..Win or lose, you experience the results..Stock market..Keep the whispering to yourself..Like the NBA..I LOVE THIS GAME..

Illini · May 26, 2004

You guys have all made some great points. I think that if the gov't ever legalized it for the whole country, people have to understand that it's not an endorsement. Nobody has to make one bet in their lifetime if they don't feel like it. Cigarettes are legal, but nobody is making you smoke them. And the people that bet realize that point shaving is a small possibility all of the time. But the problem would be almost non-existent in pro sports. Who is going to risk all of their future earnings because of one payoff? College sports are a different story, but I would like to think that most people have more integrity than that. Plus, it goes on now in 50 states, with no respect for the law. People are going to bet anyway, so it might as well be taxed. But we're a long way from getting there, I think.

oldmantime · May 26, 2004

I leave you today with this one thought on the comparision of the two.

Which former First Lady of the US turned $1000 in future bets on Hog bellies into $100,000? On the Stock Market>

I think she was just very well read on the subject!!!!