Someone Needs to Send Mario Lemieux a Copy of the Penguins' Record

[Phaedrus]

From the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
City Faces Sudden Death Without Funded Arena

by Jim Ritchie

Mario Lemieux says he and his Penguins will leave Pittsburgh without a word if taxpayers don't cover most of the cost of a new hockey palace.

"I'm not going to scream. I'll just go quietly, protecting my interests and my partners'," Lemieux said at the 2004 Mellon Mario Lemieux Celebrity Invitational golf tournament at The Club at Nevillewood in Collier.

Lemieux's comments Thursday were his first to the media since November.

The Penguins favor a city-county Sports & Exhibition Authority plan for a $278 million replacement for the 43-year-old Mellon Arena -- the oldest building in the National Hockey League. The team says it can afford to invest only $47 million.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Story continued here.

Point #1: It's the fúcking Penguins.

Point #2: City-funded stadiums are some of the worst ideas economically possible in any municipal government. Municipalities all over the country are having to make choices like "cops or schools?" and this asshole wants to put the hand on Pittsburgh. If I were the mayor or on the city council there and I saw this article I'd tell Lemieux to not let the door hit him on the ass on the way out.


Phaedrus

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

"Lemieux shrugged off questions about a proposal to build a $160 million privately financed underground arena in Pittsburgh. Los Angeles-based Sports Finance Management Group, led by Michael Shapiro, says it can secure financing from a Wall Street investment firm."

An underground arena? Like Batman's Bat-cave? That would be cool.

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

Agree that city-funded stadiums are a bad idea.

However, I think Lemieux has made an honest effort to keep the Penguins in Pitt. I think he is mostly motivated by loyalty to the franchise, whereas most owners are mostly motivated by loyalty to their money. Most owners would've left Pitt years ago.

As for Point #1, they probably wouldn't be the friggin Penguins if their stadium was more revenue-friendly. With the money from some suites and club-seats, maybe they could've kept some of their good players.

 

[Phaedrus]

Interesting points TFM.

See also:

Municipal Pork Projects Little More Than a Boondoggle


Phaedrus

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phaedrus:
Interesting points TFM.

See also:

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=9103084407&m=919105531


Phaedrus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. Stadiums and arenas have become easy targets when people complain about local/state governments wasting money, but those governments are more than capable of wasting money on lots of other projects.

Cleveland has been toying with the idea of building a new convention center (even though they recently had to lay-off hundreds of cops and fire-fighters, even though they can no longer afford to empty/maintain the sidewalk trash-cans, even though the school district is $100 million in the hole). Their convention business is in the shitter, so they're hoping a new convention center would change that. Hmmmm. Of course, maybe their convention business is in the shitter because nobody wants to visit Cleveland?

It seems the only people pushing for a new convention center are the people who would directly benefit. The construction companies, the land-development companies, their political friends/allies, etc.

 

[monicus]

What do you want Mario to do? He has to start threatening to leave because lawmakers there said 4 years ago that they would do what it takes to keep the Pens and have done nothing. 3 different groups have made him offers to move the Pens and he has turned them down. He sees the Pirates and Steelers get new tax payer financed stadiums while he gets promises. An arena is used year round for a bunch of other events while stadiums sit idle for 6-8 months a year. Yes Pittsburgh is in dire financial straits. They now have the highest parking taxes in the US. $.25 buys you 7.5 minutes.
Mario has given the city more chances to keep then anyone would have. Most guys would have moved the team years ago. Mario is a Pittsburgh guy and he wants to stay that way money be dammed.

 

[Phaedrus]

posted by monicus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Mario is a Pittsburgh guy and he wants to stay that way money be dammed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Turning down a $ 160 million offer is a very strange way to express a "money be damned" attitude.

Offer me $ 160 million sometime. You'll get all kinds of service. I'll personally whack every TBL player and hand-deliver the Stanley Cup to Calgary for a fraction of that.

My point is not just to harass Lemieux. All pro sports across the board have gotten spoiled as brats by municipal governments spending first tens and now hundreds of millions of dollars to keep them around, with little evidence that the investment is actually worth the cost when real studies are done. If it's such a slam-dunk moneymaker why won't most private capital firms touch stadium deals with a ten-foot pole unless they are underwritten by government debt?

Lemieux and pretty much everybody else in pretty much every other pro sport in America need to get the hell over themselves. They already get paid to play their favourit fúcking game for a living; how can they possibly ask for more with a straight face?


Phaedrus

 

[SHAWN GOTTI]

IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME!!!!

 

[Phaedrus]

Another one, the New Jersey Devils arena ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Bond Sale Raises $200M for Newark Arena

NEWARK, N.J. - The proposed downtown hockey arena for the New Jersey Devils moved a step closer to reality as the city's housing authority raised $200 million in a bond sale to help pay for it.

The sale was handled Thursday by Citigroup and several smaller financial institutions less than two days after a judge ruled that residents did not have the right to vote on the funding arrangement through a public referendum.

The sale is expected to be completed June 24. But two city councilmen, Luis Quintana and Augusto Amador, got an appellate judge to agree to hear a request for a temporary restraining order that would stop the sale process until the litigation surrounding it is complete.

The housing authority will pay off the bonds during the next 33 years using annual lease payments from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey of $12.5 million for Newark's marine terminal.

Mayor Sharpe James sees the arena as the centerpiece of Newark's downtown redevelopment, which envisions 500,000 square feet of retail space, a hotel and seven office buildings.

Newark plans to spend $210 million on the arena, which it would own. The Devils would spend $100 million and control nearly all of the revenue from sales of tickets, concessions and luxury suites.

The Star-Ledger of Newark reported that James plans to spend $20 million immediately to cover the predevelopment costs for the arena, such as surveying and testing the ground at the site.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's over $ 300 million being shit down a hole to "invest" in the Devils, with the great share of proceeds going to the Devils despite the fact that they're putting up less than 1/3 of the money, and debt service -- 33 years worth -- being paid by diverting funds from the NMT lease proceeds, which were no doubt being used for oher purposes prior to this project, possiblly even puposes that make basic economic sense.

The murder capital of North America is now $ 200 million in debt to build a hockey arena. Gosh, I was in Newark last in Nov. of 2002, and I've gotta tell you, I can see why they would spend it on that -- clearly they have all the basic needs of a city well taken care of.

"Why is there so much crime? Why are our schools so terrible? Why is 911 a joke in our town?" Because we just don't have the money.

Blah blah blah.

Phaedrus

 

[sickgambler]

mario lemieux is an a-hole. I used to admire the kid and still today think he is the 3rd best hockey player that ever lived, and if he was always healthy like Gretzky, might even be the greatest of all time.

But I have totally lost respect for him because I see his mom at the mall all the time. Mario grew up 10 min from me.. I asked his mom if Mario must've made her life great, and she said she doesn't expect anything from her son's success. IOW, she is telling me Mario is a cheap bastard. That really pissed me off. She still lives in the same house in Ville Emard, a little ugly wooden house and old as hell. And her husband (mario's father) is driving a shit box of a car. That cheap bastard mario did NOTHING for his family with the hundreds of millions he has. If my parents gave me a great childhood like that, I would certainly take care of them and buy them a new mansion, and a couple of cars and give them a good 5 million to go and enjoy the rest of their lives with. They are his parents. Last birthday, she said Mario was sweet enough to rent her and her husband a chalet for the weekend. Big deal!!

What a cheap bastard.

But when I asked her that she must've been proud seeing her son become such a legend.. She said she was extremely proud.

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

Lemiuex is a douche. He rested from games with the Penguins so he could be healthy for the Salt Lake Olympics. Now he wants these same people to pay for a new arena so he can make $ off them on it. Take your KD Lang looking whiny ass and get out of the NHL.

 

[drock]

sick,

what is your email address? have someth ing you might find interesting.

 

[sickgambler]

mr nj sports,

that is incredible you say that Mario Lemieux looks like KD Lang, because I have always said that here and no one ever agreed with me till you just said that.

Just to prove I am not lying. Click this link and read the last post by me on this page.. This was posted 7 months ago..

http://forum.therx.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=20910187&r=67410497#67410497


Drock,

I can't wait to see what you will send me. This better not be a waste of my time. Hey Drock, I am expecting big things from you.. I don't like giving my email address out like this unless i have to. Please don't let me down Drocky boy.

 

[drock]

you got it sick, what is it?

 

[sickgambler]

oops, sorry man, I forgot to give it..

sickgambler@hotmail. com

Now the question is.. who really are you? Why would a guy with a first post come in to ask me for my email.. I am getting nervous here.. No one is really that nice in life that they would sign up just to send someone an email..

Well, we'll soon find out. Send the email, you got me curious..

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

sick
go to espn.com page 2 they have a whole load of look alikes. Some of em are really good.

 

[Phaedrus]

And outright bribing of pro sports teams which is not working out ... I just don't get it, especially not for an NFL team ... as if they are hurting for dough.

I guess I'm getting obsessed with these stories, but this kind of thing is just bullshit to me, the absolute worst kind of welfare is that which is bestowed on those who don't need it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Saints Owner Cuts Off Talks on State Contract

(Associated Press)

NEW ORLEANS -- New Orleans Saints owner Tom Benson wants all $15 million due him this summer before he returns to talks about revising the team's contract with the state.

Team and state officials said Monday that Benson cut off the negotiations in a letter sent to state officials June 7 by Arnold Fielkow, Saints executive vice president of administration.

That is "contrary to what he and the governor indicated would happen," Superdome Commission Chairman Tim Coulon said.

After Benson and Gov. Kathleen Blanco met June 3, both talked about continuing negotiations.

But Fielkow said Benson already had asked that the state honor its immediate financial obligation before proceeding with negotiations.

"It's consistent with Mr. Benson's position that a deal is a deal," Fielkow said Monday.

The governor would like to speak with Benson before commenting publicly about the letter, spokeswoman Denise Bottcher said.

The letter to Blanco's chief of staff, Andy Kopplin, says team representatives would be prepared "to begin this discussion after this year's obligations have been satisfied."

The state is about $7 million short of this year's $15 million payment, and Coulon has said the shortfall will only grow.

Blanco and the Legislature are looking for ways to budget or borrow the money for this year's payment, due July 5. If the state does not pay the total within 75 days after the deadline, the Saints could leave Louisiana without paying a $75 million exit penalty.

Blanco, Benson and Coulon have met twice to discuss the payment and the possibility of renegotiating the deal the state made with the team in 2001, when Mike Foster was governor.

After a three-hour meeting June 3 at the Saints' office in Metairie, Benson said he expected full payment in time for the state to avoid default. He also said, "We are going to meet as often as it takes."

Benson said then that his aides would talk with Blanco's advisers about points of renegotiation.

But he is now refusing to meet with Blanco or let his staff meet with the governor's until all $15 million is paid, Coulon said.

He said the commission brought sports marketing consultant Dan Barrett, head of Barrett Sports Group of Manhattan Beach, Calif., to New Orleans last week to meet with the Saints, but the team refused.

The governor and the commission cite a recent study by Barrett to support their contention that it would be better for the team to renovate the Superdome rather than build a new stadium that Benson wants.

Fielkow said the Saints have an excellent relationship with Blanco, Coulon and their staffs.

"We look forward to sitting down with them after July 5," he said.

The 2001 package was designed to help make the Saints more profitable and keep them in New Orleans until at least 2010. The annual payments escalate from $15 million this year to $23.5 million by 2010.

The money was supposed to come from a hotel-motel tax in the New Orleans area. In mid-2001, it was a growing and dependable source of money for state projects including the Superdome and New Orleans Arena.

The deal was signed just after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, which have hurt the travel business and cut the tax revenues.

Money also was supposed to come from selling the naming rights to the Superdome and Arena, but the state has failed to find a buyer.

Fielkow's letter said the Saints are willing to put off resolution on two other contract issues - $1 million in Superdome staffing costs the state wants the team to pay, and $100,000 the Saints say the state owes for air-conditioning at its training camp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Phaedrus

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

Most cities have learned their lesson. During the 90s, lots of cities were throwing cash @ pro teams in order to build new stadiums.

And then other cities watched those stadiums fail to create the economic boosts that were promised.

But wait 20-30 years, I'm sure everybody will forget that public-funded stadiums are a bad idea.