So the Iran Nuclear Deal....where do you stand?

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Why I'm voting to disapprove the Iran deal

By Sen. Chuck Schumer

Published August 7, 2015

Every several years or so a legislator is called upon to cast a momentous vote in which the stakes are high and both sides of the issue are vociferous in their views.

Over the years, I have learned that the best way to treat such decisions is to study the issue carefully, hear the full, unfiltered explanation of those for and against, and then, without regard to pressure, politics or party, make a decision solely based on the merits.

I have spent the last three weeks doing just that: carefully studying the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, reading and re-reading the agreement and its annexes, questioning dozens of proponents and opponents, and seeking answers to questions that go beyond the text of the agreement but will have real consequences that must be considered.

Advocates on both sides have strong cases for their point of view that cannot simply be dismissed. This has made evaluating the agreement a difficult and deliberate endeavor, and after deep study, careful thought and considerable soul-searching, I have decided I must oppose the agreement and will vote yes on a motion of disapproval. …

In making my decision, I examined this deal in three parts: nuclear restrictions on Iran in the first ten years, nuclear restrictions on Iran after ten years, and non-nuclear components and consequences of a deal. In each case I have asked: are we better off with the agreement or without it?

In the first ten years of the deal, there are serious weaknesses in the agreement. First, inspections are not "anywhere, anytime"; the 24-day delay before we can inspect is troubling. While inspectors would likely be able to detect radioactive isotopes at a site after 24 days, that delay would enable Iran to escape detection of any illicit building and improving of possible military dimensions (PMD) — the tools that go into building a bomb but don't emit radioactivity.

Furthermore, even when we detect radioactivity at a site where Iran is illicitly advancing its bomb-making capability, the 24-day delay would hinder our ability to determine precisely what was being done at that site.

Even more troubling is the fact that the U.S. cannot demand inspections unilaterally. By requiring the majority of the 8-member Joint Commission, and assuming that China, Russia, and Iran will not cooperate, inspections would require the votes of all three European members of the P5+1 as well as the EU representative. It is reasonable to fear that, once the Europeans become entangled in lucrative economic relations with Iran, they may well be inclined not to rock the boat by voting to allow inspections.

Additionally, the "snapback" provisions in the agreement seem cumbersome and difficult to use. While the U.S. could unilaterally cause snapback of all sanctions, there will be instances where it would be more appropriate to snapback some but not all of the sanctions, because the violation is significant but not severe. A partial snapback of multilateral sanctions could be difficult to obtain, because the U.S. would require the cooperation of other nations. If the U.S. insists on snapback of all the provisions, which it can do unilaterally, and the Europeans, Russians, or Chinese feel that is too severe a punishment, they may not comply.

Those who argue for the agreement say it is better to have an imperfect deal than to have nothing; that without the agreement, there would be no inspections, no snapback. When you consider only this portion of the deal — nuclear restrictions for the first ten years — that line of thinking is plausible, but even for this part of the agreement, the weaknesses mentioned above make this argument less compelling.

Second, we must evaluate how this deal would restrict Iran's nuclear development after ten years.

Supporters argue that after ten years, a future President would be in no weaker a position than we are today to prevent Iran from racing to the bomb. That argument discounts the current sanctions regime. After fifteen years of relief from sanctions, Iran would be stronger financially and better able to advance a robust nuclear program.

Even more importantly, the agreement would allow Iran, after ten to fifteen years, to be a nuclear threshold state with the blessing of the world community. Iran would have a green light to be as close, if not closer to possessing a nuclear weapon than it is today.

And the ability to thwart Iran if it is intent on becoming a nuclear power would have less moral and economic force.

If Iran's true intent is to get a nuclear weapon, under this agreement, it must simply exercise patience. After ten years, it can be very close to achieving that goal, and, unlike its current unsanctioned pursuit of a nuclear weapon, Iran's nuclear program will be codified in an agreement signed by the United States and other nations. To me, after ten years, if Iran is the same nation as it is today, we will be worse off with this agreement than without it.

In addition, we must consider the non-nuclear elements of the agreement. This aspect of the deal gives me the most pause. For years, Iran has used military force and terrorism to expand its influence in the Middle East, actively supporting military or terrorist actions in Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, and Gaza. That is why the U.S. has labeled Iran as one of only three nations in the world who are "state sponsors of terrorism." Under this agreement, Iran would receive at least $50 billion dollars in the near future and would undoubtedly use some of that money to redouble its efforts to create even more trouble in the Middle East, and, perhaps, beyond.

To reduce the pain of sanctions, the Supreme Leader had to lean left and bend to the moderates in his country. It seems logical that to counterbalance, he will lean right and give the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (IRGC) and the hardliners resources so that they can pursue their number one goal: strengthening Iran's armed forces and pursuing even more harmful military and terrorist actions.

Finally, the hardliners can use the freed-up funds to build an ICBM on their own as soon as sanctions are lifted (and then augment their ICBM capabilities in 8 years after the ban on importing ballistic weaponry is lifted), threatening the United States. Restrictions should have been put in place limiting how Iran could use its new resources.

When it comes to the non-nuclear aspects of the deal, I think there is a strong case that we are better off without an agreement than with one.

Using the proponents' overall standard — which is not whether the agreement is ideal, but whether we are better with or without it — it seems to me, when it comes to the nuclear aspects of the agreement within ten years, we might be slightly better off with it. However, when it comes to the nuclear aspects after ten years and the non-nuclear aspects, we would be better off without it. Ultimately, in my view, whether one supports or opposes the resolution of disapproval depends on how one thinks Iran will behave under this agreement.

If one thinks Iran will moderate, that contact with the West and a decrease in economic and political isolation will soften Iran's hardline positions, one should approve the agreement. After all, a moderate Iran is less likely to exploit holes in the inspection and sanctions regime, is less likely to seek to become a threshold nuclear power after ten years, and is more likely to use its newfound resources for domestic growth, not international adventurism.

But if one feels that Iranian leaders will not moderate and their unstated but very real goal is to get relief from the onerous sanctions, while still retaining their nuclear ambitions and their ability to increase belligerent activities in the Middle East and elsewhere, then one should conclude that it would be better not to approve this agreement.

Admittedly, no one can tell with certainty which way Iran will go. It is true that Iran has a large number of people who want their government to decrease its isolation from the world and focus on economic advancement at home.

But it is also true that this desire has been evident in Iran for thirty-five years, yet the Iranian leaders have held a tight and undiminished grip on Iran, successfully maintaining their brutal, theocratic dictatorship with little threat. Who's to say this dictatorship will not prevail for another ten, twenty, or thirty years?

To me, the very real risk that Iran will not moderate and will, instead, use the agreement to pursue its nefarious goals is too great.

Therefore, I will vote to disapprove the agreement, not because I believe war is a viable or desirable option, nor to challenge the path of diplomacy. It is because I believe Iran will not change, and under this agreement it will be able to achieve its dual goals of eliminating sanctions while ultimately retaining its nuclear and non-nuclear power. Better to keep U.S. sanctions in place, strengthen them, enforce secondary sanctions on other nations, and pursue the hard-trodden path of diplomacy once more, difficult as it may be.

For all of these reasons, I believe the vote to disapprove is the right one.
 
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Nope, not the only one. Others have pointed out your passive aggressive attacks for no reason on Myself, Vit, Aki, Finchy, while giving the righties a pass.
I also "Pimped" Huntsman, and would have voted for him over Obama. It's simple. I don't fit into your pre conceived, simplistic, false narrative Lefty Box. I'll vote for someone of character, over someone who might have views closer to mine, but lack the character I'm looking for.

I got along well with AK and I like Vit. Finch is actually mentally ill. 75% of his posts are telling people to do something with an animal dick or dildo. As far as you go, well you know how I feel about you. No secret there.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread (I deserve quite a bit of blame for getting us off topic). Did you read Schumer's argument that Scott posted? Whether you agree with him or not, it's worth a read. He makes some well reasoned points and I agree with the majority of his thoughts.
 

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I got along well with AK and I like Vit. Finch is actually mentally ill. 75% of his posts are telling people to do something with an animal dick or dildo. As far as you go, well you know how I feel about you. No secret there.
Anyway, back to the topic of this thread (I deserve quite a bit of blame for getting us off topic). Did you read Schumer's argument that Scott posted? Whether you agree with him or not, it's worth a read. He makes some well reasoned points and I agree with the majority of his thoughts.

He doesn't care. He's not a reasonable person and basically just posts here to taunt people.

>>>EX: "My My. Arab States SUPPORTING this agreement, and want to give peace a chance. From the Propaganda pieces you get down here, I thought all the Arab states were against it. Sanity prevails, once again. :toast:. Hopefully the extremists nuts here and in Iran don't scuttle this."<<<
=====================================

Seriously, like what kind of reaction are you inviting posting that? Not to mention that it's false on Monday, true on Tuesday and false again on Wednesday. I could take just one of these countries, Qatar and write an essay about their motives. But I digress.....

Honestly it doesn't bother me that TG agrees with the Iran deal. Opinions vary on political issues. Forget the actual deal itself for a second and whether you agree that it is good for the US or makes war with a stronger Iran inevitable in the future.

When your basic posture on this website is:
1) To not acknowledge a deal has been struck with a regime that is evil, maniacal, untrustworthy and intent on destroying us, while....
2) simultaneously calling those who disagree with you "vile, insane, storm fronters, human trash, cult, etc."

What do you expect? Yeah, you call for the US to "make peace with your enemies" (which would be great, if you could. No one objects to that) when these enemies are irrational people. That he expects. But he can't have a disagreement with a laid back guy like you because you "support this crazy cult." Does this make sense? Who is he posting to then? Why is he still here? Afterall we're all crazy. But the mullahs? Don't worry the Russians and Chinese will keep them in check. Iy-Yiy-Yiy!
 

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He doesn't care. He's not a reasonable person and basically just posts here to taunt people.

>>>EX: "My My. Arab States SUPPORTING this agreement, and want to give peace a chance. From the Propaganda pieces you get down here, I thought all the Arab states were against it. Sanity prevails, once again. :toast:. Hopefully the extremists nuts here and in Iran don't scuttle this."<<<
=====================================

Seriously, like what kind of reaction are you inviting posting that? Not to mention that it's false on Monday, true on Tuesday and false again on Wednesday. I could take just one of these countries, Qatar and write an essay about their motives. But I digress.....

Honestly it doesn't bother me that TG agrees with the Iran deal. Opinions vary on political issues. Forget the actual deal itself for a second and whether you agree that it is good for the US or makes war with a stronger Iran inevitable in the future.

When your basic posture on this website is:
1) To not acknowledge a deal has been struck with a regime that is evil, maniacal, untrustworthy and intent on destroying us, while....
2) simultaneously calling those who disagree with you "vile, insane, storm fronters, human trash, cult, etc."

What do you expect? Yeah, you call for the US to "make peace with your enemies" (which would be great, if you could. No one objects to that) when these enemies are irrational people. That he expects. But he can't have a disagreement with a laid back guy like you because you "support this crazy cult." Does this make sense? Who is he posting to then? Why is he still here? Afterall we're all crazy. But the mullahs? Don't worry the Russians and Chinese will keep them in check. Iy-Yiy-Yiy!
Actually I'm an extremely reasonable person. But when I'm attacked, I attack back harder, and that's the situation with several here, including you and Mantis. I got along fine with him until he started attacking me for no reason, with his passive aggressive BS, and after awhile, I come back, and harder. Same with you. You attack me for no reason for months and months, simply for giving an opposing view, eventually I'm gonna come back, and harder.
Your portrayal of me is a total fabrication on your part.
You are right about one thing though. I don't care. About people like you and some others down here. You can't be reasoned with. You accuse reasonable people who have different views than you of anti semetism, like Duck Hunter. It was disgraceful. And VILE as shit.
There are people I disagree with all the time civilly. That's the way I'd prefer it, but I don't take shit past a certain point. Never have, never will.
 

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Actually I'm an extremely reasonable person. But when I'm attacked, I attack back harder, and that's the situation with several here, including you and Mantis. I got along fine with him until he started attacking me for no reason, with his passive aggressive BS, and after awhile, I come back, and harder. Same with you. You attack me for no reason for months and months, simply for giving an opposing view, eventually I'm gonna come back, and harder.
Your portrayal of me is a total fabrication on your part.
You are right about one thing though. I don't care. About people like you and some others down here. You can't be reasoned with. You accuse reasonable people who have different views than you of anti semetism, like Duck Hunter. It was disgraceful. And VILE as shit.
There are people I disagree with all the time civilly. That's the way I'd prefer it, but I don't take shit past a certain point. Never have, never will.

Well guess what Spammy. I just had my say and you had yours. You could have stopped at, "fabrication on your part." To that I would respond, "fair enough." But like Akphi you just can't help yourself, so you continued. No, DH wasn't an anti-Semite. He just posted lies about Israel in the latest Gaza war which all emanated from sites run by people who hate Jews. All well and good :)

Spammy if the internet existed in 1939 and we were both here you'd be supporting FDR for turning the SS St Louis around. Then you'd continue admonishing the US not to get involved in the war, even after Pearl Harbor. You'd continue posting anti WWII crap right through D-Day. You're just always wrong :):)
 

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Well guess what Spammy. I just had my say and you had yours. You could have stopped at, "fabrication on your part." To that I would respond, "fair enough." But like Akphi you just can't help yourself, so you continued. No, DH wasn't an anti-Semite. He just posted lies about Israel in the latest Gaza war which all emanated from sites run by people who hate Jews. All well and good :)

Spammy if the internet existed in 1939 and we were both here you'd be supporting FDR for turning the SS St Louis around. Then you'd continue admonishing the US not to get involved in the war, even after Pearl Harbor. You'd continue posting anti WWII crap right through D-Day. You're just always wrong :):)
Again, totally false assumptions. But that's what you're reduced to. Most American Jews agree with my POV of the Middle East.
You post hateful crap from Caroline Glick and other far right wingers regarding Israel Most American Jews disagree with that stuff. Duck Hunter posted stuff from sites that supported his POV. That's what we do down here.
Always Wrong Down here is Wrong Way. You've been around long enough to know that. :):)
 

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Again, totally false assumptions. But that's what you're reduced to. Most American Jews agree with my POV of the Middle East.
You post hateful crap from Caroline Glick and other far right wingers regarding Israel Most American Jews disagree with that stuff. Duck Hunter posted stuff from sites that supported his POV. That's what we do down here.
Always Wrong Down here is Wrong Way. You've been around long enough to know that. :):)

False assumptions like most American Jews agree with you, which of course WE DON'T.

I support Caroline Glick - You support Duckhunter. 'Nuff said :)
 

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3 U.S. Defeats: Vietnam, Iraq and Now Iran

AUG. 7, 2015


David Brooks
The purpose of war, military or economic, is to get your enemy to do something it would rather not do. Over the past several years the United States and other Western powers have engaged in an economic, clandestine and political war against Iran to force it to give up its nuclear program.

Over the course of this siege, American policy makers have been very explicit about their goals. Foremost, to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power. Second, as John Kerry has said, to force it to dismantle a large part of its nuclear infrastructure. Third, to take away its power to enrich uranium.

Fourth, as President Obama has said, to close the Fordo enrichment facility. Fifth, as the chief American negotiator, Wendy Sherman, recently testified, to force Iran to come clean on all past nuclear activities by the Iranian military. Sixth, to shut down Iran’s ballistic missile program. Seventh, to have “anywhere, anytime 24/7” access to any nuclear facilities Iran retains. Eighth, as Kerry put it, to not phase down sanctions until after Iran ends its nuclear bomb-making capabilities.

As a report from the Foreign Policy Initiative exhaustively details, the U.S. has not fully achieved any of these objectives. The agreement delays but does not end Iran’s nuclear program. It legitimizes Iran’s status as a nuclear state. Iran will mothball some of its centrifuges, but it will not dismantle or close any of its nuclear facilities. Nuclear research and development will continue.

Iran wins the right to enrich uranium. The agreement does not include “anywhere, anytime” inspections; some inspections would require a 24-day waiting period, giving the Iranians plenty of time to clean things up. After eight years, all restrictions on ballistic missiles are lifted. Sanctions are lifted once Iran has taken its initial actions.

Wars, military or economic, are measured by whether you achieved your stated objectives. By this standard the U.S. and its allies lost the war against Iran, but we were able to negotiate terms that gave only our partial surrender, which forces Iran to at least delay its victory. There have now been three big U.S. strategic defeats over the past several decades: Vietnam, Iraq and now Iran.

The big question is, Why did we lose? Why did the combined powers of the Western world lose to a ragtag regime with a crippled economy and without much popular support?

The first big answer is that the Iranians just wanted victory more than we did. They were willing to withstand the kind of punishment we were prepared to mete out.

Further, the Iranians were confident in their power, while the Obama administration emphasized the limits of America’s ability to influence other nations. It’s striking how little President Obama thought of the tools at his disposal. He effectively took the military option off the table. He didn’t believe much in economic sanctions. “Nothing we know about the Iranian government suggests that it would simply capitulate under that kind of pressure,” he argued.

The president hoped that a deal would change the moral nature of the regime, so he had an extra incentive to reach a deal. And the Western, Russian and Chinese sanctions regime was fragile while the Iranians were able to hang together.

This administration has given us a choice between two terrible options: accept the partial-surrender agreement that was negotiated or reject it and slide immediately into what is in effect our total surrender — a collapsed sanctions regime and a booming Iranian nuclear program.

Many members of Congress will be tempted to accept the terms of our partial surrender as the least bad option in the wake of our defeat. I get that. But in voting for this deal they may be affixing their names to an arrangement that will increase the chance of more comprehensive war further down the road.

Iran is a fanatical, hegemonic, hate-filled regime. If you think its radicalism is going to be softened by a few global trade opportunities, you really haven’t been paying attention to the Middle East over the past four decades.

Iran will use its $150 billion windfall to spread terror around the region and exert its power. It will incrementally but dangerously cheat on the accord. Armed with money, ballistic weapons and an eventual nuclear breakout, it will become more aggressive. As the end of the nuclear delay comes into view, the 45th or 46th president will decide that action must be taken.

Economic and political defeats can be as bad as military ones. Sometimes when you surrender to a tyranny you lay the groundwork for a more cataclysmic conflict to come.
 

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False assumptions like most American Jews agree with you, which of course WE DON'T.

I support Caroline Glick - You support Duckhunter. 'Nuff said :)
The truth. Most American Jews support the Iran Pact. Most American Jews are Moderate to Liberal. WE ARE.
Feel free to support Hard Line Right Winger Caroline Glick. I'll support The Truth and people who tell it.
 

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The truth. Most American Jews support the Iran Pact. Most American Jews are Moderate to Liberal. WE ARE.
Feel free to support Hard Line Right Winger Caroline Glick. I'll support The Truth and people who tell it.

It's funny you think you know more than me. It's hilarious when you compare yourself to Caroline Glick. Both she and I have detailed why the deal is a farce and a failure. You have no response except to cover your ears and shout, "lalalalalala!" Every opinion you've ever had has been told to you. You have no ability whatsoever to form your own. You don't speak for the Jews; you speak for the far-left loons. And stuff your sane-insane nonsense. Every Jew at every end of the political spectrum wants peace. We just don't choose to live in an imaginary world.
 
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The truth. Most American Jews support the Iran Pact. Most American Jews are Moderate to Liberal. WE ARE.
Feel free to support Hard Line Right Winger Caroline Glick. I'll support The Truth and people who tell it.

"I'll support the truth and people who tell it"

Slimy fucking liar.

Slide94.jpg
 

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It's funny you think you know more than me. It's hilarious when you compare yourself to Caroline Glick. Both she and I have detailed why the deal is a farce and a failure. You have no response except to cover your ears and shout, "lalalalalala!" Every opinion you've ever had has been told to you. You have no ability whatsoever to form your own. You don't speak for the Jews; you speak for the far-left loons. And stuff your sane-insane nonsense. Every Jew at every end of the political spectrum wants peace. We just don't choose to live in an imaginary world.

AGAIN, More Jews agree with me than agree with you. FACT. I most certainly would never compare myself to the hateful Caroline Glick. You most certainly don't speak for Jews, except the extreme fringe Right Wing of the Religion. Your consistent attempts to paint me as a "left wing loon" are comical. I live in the real world. Where we try and approach problems realistically, not some fantasy, where war will settle everything, and our enemies will give us what we want, simply because we want them to. The world you live in is one of hate and paranoia.
 

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AGAIN, More Jews agree with me than agree with you. FACT. I most certainly would never compare myself to the hateful Caroline Glick. You most certainly don't speak for Jews, except the extreme fringe Right Wing of the Religion. Your consistent attempts to paint me as a "left wing loon" are comical. I live in the real world. Where we try and approach problems realistically, not some fantasy, where war will settle everything, and our enemies will give us what we want, simply because we want them to. The world you live in is one of hate and paranoia.

Don't twist my words. You know what I meant. Your phony grasp for superiority to people who range from a little brighter than you to a lot brighter, like Caroline Glick. You are a nobody who lives in an imaginary world where evil doesn't exist except for here at the Rx in the form of a cult. It doesn't matter what Iran does in the real world. To you they're just a shining beacon of well-intentioned light with no malicious designs.

You know the one thing you're good at? Getting the last word, which is always a repitition of some tripe you've already posted. And I have no doubt you'll get it in here, little as it matters. None of us vile cult members will ever be able to scuttle the battery in your mouth.
 

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Don't twist my words. You know what I meant. Your phony grasp for superiority to people who range from a little brighter than you to a lot brighter, like Caroline Glick. You are a nobody who lives in an imaginary world where evil doesn't exist except for here at the Rx in the form of a cult. It doesn't matter what Iran does in the real world. To you they're just a shining beacon of well-intentioned light with no malicious designs.

You know the one thing you're good at? Getting the last word, which is always a repitition of some tripe you've already posted. And I have no doubt you'll get it in here, little as it matters. None of us vile cult members will ever be able to scuttle the battery in your mouth.
Speaking of lies and twisting words. Only your made up scenario of me thinks there is no evil, or that Iran "is a shining beacon of well intentioned light with no malicious designs". You Need to believe that to keep your false scenario alive.
 

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It is really flattering to be mentioned in this thread without me posting in it, and I thank ya'll for that, lol. Guesser, that is exactly why I quit reading and posting in this forum like I used to. One, is their point of view is the only one, and yours is only a lie. Second, it is utterly disgusting to be called "anti-semetic" just because you have a different view of things. It is better for one's mental health to just not read these threads and not have to endure all the BS and the attacks simply for stating your views.
 

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It is really flattering to be mentioned in this thread without me posting in it, and I thank ya'll for that, lol. Guesser, that is exactly why I quit reading and posting in this forum like I used to. One, is their point of view is the only one, and yours is only a lie. Second, it is utterly disgusting to be called "anti-semetic" just because you have a different view of things. It is better for one's mental health to just not read these threads and not have to endure all the BS and the attacks simply for stating your views.

I hear ya, DH. It just offended me when a guy like you who posted a different POV in a classy manner, was unfairly called an anti Semite, simply for that POV. It encapsulates what's poison about this place and too many members in it.
 
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He doesn't care. He's not a reasonable person and basically just posts here to taunt people.

>>>EX: "My My. Arab States SUPPORTING this agreement, and want to give peace a chance. From the Propaganda pieces you get down here, I thought all the Arab states were against it. Sanity prevails, once again. :toast:. Hopefully the extremists nuts here and in Iran don't scuttle this."<<<
=====================================

Seriously, like what kind of reaction are you inviting posting that? Not to mention that it's false on Monday, true on Tuesday and false again on Wednesday. I could take just one of these countries, Qatar and write an essay about their motives. But I digress.....

Honestly it doesn't bother me that TG agrees with the Iran deal. Opinions vary on political issues. Forget the actual deal itself for a second and whether you agree that it is good for the US or makes war with a stronger Iran inevitable in the future.

When your basic posture on this website is:
1) To not acknowledge a deal has been struck with a regime that is evil, maniacal, untrustworthy and intent on destroying us, while....
2) simultaneously calling those who disagree with you "vile, insane, storm fronters, human trash, cult, etc."

What do you expect? Yeah, you call for the US to "make peace with your enemies" (which would be great, if you could. No one objects to that) when these enemies are irrational people. That he expects. But he can't have a disagreement with a laid back guy like you because you "support this crazy cult." Does this make sense? Who is he posting to then? Why is he still here? Afterall we're all crazy. But the mullahs? Don't worry the Russians and Chinese will keep them in check. Iy-Yiy-Yiy!

Thank you, Scott. This is pretty much identical to how I feel. I understand that righties and lefties here love taking shots at each other, but it's how he pretends to be some beacon of integrity who is above the fray while posting articles that contain his intros that call anyone who disagrees vile extremists, nuts, psychos and whatever else. I'm against the Iran deal, but I can accept and understand that some people like it.
 

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