This should be resolved early in the week. I think that velton is very aware of what is going on. I am not at liberty to share all of this information, but it is not in the hands of Royal at this time. The investigation has went to a 3rd party who will report their findings. Hopefully this will be done tomorrow or Tue at the latest. If what I am being told is true, then I am glad that Royal is taking the time to verify this activity.
oh so now velton is a cheater? lol he posted his plays here before the games! what more can the guy do?
why whenever someone is owed big money, they have to undertake an investigation, but when you lose big, there is no audit of the account?
so ridiculous. and shrink, doesn't it take one phone call from you sir?
why whenever someone is owed big money, they have to undertake an investigation, but when you lose big, there is no audit of the account?
so ridiculous. and shrink, doesn't it take one phone call from you sir?
[SIZE=-1]quote:[/SIZE]
Originally posted by IDENTITY:
oh so now velton is a cheater? lol he posted his plays here before the games! what more can the guy do?
why whenever someone is owed big money, they have to undertake an investigation, but when you lose big, there is no audit of the account?
so ridiculous. and shrink, doesn't it take one phone call from you sir?
Originally posted by IDENTITY:
oh so now velton is a cheater? lol he posted his plays here before the games! what more can the guy do?
why whenever someone is owed big money, they have to undertake an investigation, but when you lose big, there is no audit of the account?
so ridiculous. and shrink, doesn't it take one phone call from you sir?
identity..As I stated in another thread, this has nothing to do with Past Posted of plays, this issue came about as follows:5 Accounts were opened just before the Superbowl and opened in succession and each referred the other. They were opened with 5 different email accounts and addresses and phone numbers. Now there was no way at the time of knowing if the accounts were linked and even now the only way of knowing is after Netteller has investigated the 5 accounts (which is being done and they have asked til Monday to complete).
The reason that Royal suspected that something may be going on is that Velton emailed his payout request from an email account belonging to one of the other 4 accounts. Upon further investigation the phone numbers of some of the accounts were similar and some not even valid.
I have spoken to Velton and he was very forthcoming and from there I set up a 3 way phone call with Kevin of Royal, I thought a person to person conversation would help move things along and it seems it did as both parties communicated and are aware that Netteller would complete their investigated on Monday.
At this point unless needed I don't see anything else I can do as Netteller will contact Royal on Monday and whatever the outcome is Kevin and Velton will communicate with each other then as well.
Thanks
HTRC
Gemeral, is it possible our NASCAR contest may be in jeapordy now? How Ironic would it be that Royal rescued Gamblers Avenue's contest for us last year......Only to ditch us on the one they are promoting this year.......
Just thought I'd ask. It sure would suck to get weeks into this contest and then it come to a halt....
IDENTITY, thanks for your concern.
I spoke with Kevin and he says Neteller will decide the outcome here. They are checking if my accnts are in colusion with the 4 other accnts. There is no colusion here. I don't even exactly know the 4 other accnts they are referring to.
When Royal was constantly asking me for my documents I emailed them from a friend's email who also played with Royal last year. I was very open and not trying to hide anything. I suppose Royal is investigating if my neteller accnt is linked with his - I don't know what that means, but all I can say is that we are different individuals who make different bets.
One of the other 3 accnts they are investigating might include the accnt that referred me to Royal and that person is also a different individual making different bets. Nobody is working in collusion here and there is no syndicate action.
I expect Royal to pay my balance. Everything was won fair and square and there was no bonus abuse. Each person I know of that played with Royal is a unique individual with their own neteller accnt. They have gladly accepted my deposit and booked my bets. Now they must pay.
I spoke with Kevin and he says Neteller will decide the outcome here. They are checking if my accnts are in colusion with the 4 other accnts. There is no colusion here. I don't even exactly know the 4 other accnts they are referring to.
When Royal was constantly asking me for my documents I emailed them from a friend's email who also played with Royal last year. I was very open and not trying to hide anything. I suppose Royal is investigating if my neteller accnt is linked with his - I don't know what that means, but all I can say is that we are different individuals who make different bets.
One of the other 3 accnts they are investigating might include the accnt that referred me to Royal and that person is also a different individual making different bets. Nobody is working in collusion here and there is no syndicate action.
I expect Royal to pay my balance. Everything was won fair and square and there was no bonus abuse. Each person I know of that played with Royal is a unique individual with their own neteller accnt. They have gladly accepted my deposit and booked my bets. Now they must pay.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by go2guy:
As I asked you before HTRC, have you asked Royal if the multiple account issue was noticed before or after his payout request?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
First I have not formed the opinion that Velton has more than one account, as someone who is trying to mediate this I have listened to both sides. I asked Velton to provide me with a number I could reach him at, he did..I called and spoke to him on the issues at hand, he was forthcoming with everything I asked of him and has been VERY cooperative. As far as a book noticing whether someone has multiple accounts I would venture to guess that 90% of books don't know if someone has opened up multiple accounts and they usually only come to light if an irregularity transpires. In this case although it is unknown whether its a case of multiple accounts or not, the irregularity was Royal receiving an email from an email account which is linked to another account that was opened at the same time from my understanding.
As Velton stated, he is confident that Netteller will return a response that the accounts are not linked, if that is the case then alls well that ends well and due diligence has been served but I do believe that all books should perform two very simple tasks to avoid such problems.
1. Hire a clerk, pay her the 8 or 9 bucks an hour thats needed and have her confirm that every new account opening up has a valid phone number and that the info doesn't match any other account on file. Seems like monotinous work but its needed as a security measure.
2. If there is any doubt that an account may not be legit, suspend all wagering on that account immediately and have the player contact the book to discuss the issues.
With those two in place I believe things would run alot smoother.
Thanks
HTRC
[This message was edited by HateTheRiverCard on February 22, 2004 at 07:34 PM.]
As I asked you before HTRC, have you asked Royal if the multiple account issue was noticed before or after his payout request?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
First I have not formed the opinion that Velton has more than one account, as someone who is trying to mediate this I have listened to both sides. I asked Velton to provide me with a number I could reach him at, he did..I called and spoke to him on the issues at hand, he was forthcoming with everything I asked of him and has been VERY cooperative. As far as a book noticing whether someone has multiple accounts I would venture to guess that 90% of books don't know if someone has opened up multiple accounts and they usually only come to light if an irregularity transpires. In this case although it is unknown whether its a case of multiple accounts or not, the irregularity was Royal receiving an email from an email account which is linked to another account that was opened at the same time from my understanding.
As Velton stated, he is confident that Netteller will return a response that the accounts are not linked, if that is the case then alls well that ends well and due diligence has been served but I do believe that all books should perform two very simple tasks to avoid such problems.
1. Hire a clerk, pay her the 8 or 9 bucks an hour thats needed and have her confirm that every new account opening up has a valid phone number and that the info doesn't match any other account on file. Seems like monotinous work but its needed as a security measure.
2. If there is any doubt that an account may not be legit, suspend all wagering on that account immediately and have the player contact the book to discuss the issues.
With those two in place I believe things would run alot smoother.
Thanks
HTRC
[This message was edited by HateTheRiverCard on February 22, 2004 at 07:34 PM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IDENTITY:
who cares whether the guy opened up 5 accounts? he was betting REAL MONEY on REAL GAMES with REAL RISK involved.
had he lost, would royal have cared if he had opened up 5 accounts?
this is so ridiculous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If the multiple accounts are linked, then the real question becomes: why go through the hassle of opening up 5 different accounts (and falsifying information) if he just wanted to bet real money with real risk?
Bonus whoring? Circumventing limits?
Whatever the reason, multiple accounts generally points ot a scammer. Not saying this is true in this particular case, but many of these slow pays that become huge debates on the forums can be traced back to some scamming activity.
who cares whether the guy opened up 5 accounts? he was betting REAL MONEY on REAL GAMES with REAL RISK involved.
had he lost, would royal have cared if he had opened up 5 accounts?
this is so ridiculous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If the multiple accounts are linked, then the real question becomes: why go through the hassle of opening up 5 different accounts (and falsifying information) if he just wanted to bet real money with real risk?
Bonus whoring? Circumventing limits?
Whatever the reason, multiple accounts generally points ot a scammer. Not saying this is true in this particular case, but many of these slow pays that become huge debates on the forums can be traced back to some scamming activity.
Slow pay disputes at books that are continuing to pay everybody else almost always involve some sort of misbehaviour by the the bettor. Often times the book in question will get itself in to trouble by not acting quickly enough to correct situations like bets on bad lines. The natural assumption for most of us is if you take a bet you need to pay if you lose. Therefore it is critical that a book protect itself by notifying players who bet bad lines BEFORE the game in question actually starts. Cases of possible multiple account/bonus/referral fraud need to be handled with swift closing of the suspected accounts. I know sometime that the facts come out to late in some cases, but situations like this Velton - Royal one, where the player continues to bet into an account under investigation makes no sense. imho.
wil.
wil.
And Wil, the opposite is also true - it makes no sense whatsoever that Royal continues to allow this player to make any bets whatsoever if they suspect a scam, unless they think (1) he's innocent or (2) he's guilty, and they think they won't have to pay if he wins (and if he loses, so much the better).
Bottom line ... this account should have been frozen immediately and not left open. If Royal does decide not to pay him, and they don't pay his winnings on the bets placed after he was notified about this situation, then Royal will have permanently shot themselves in the foot with respect to how I personally feel about them, and of course what I'll say about them. Meaning, if they are taking bets after they say there's a problem, and they don't pay those bets, the only possible conclusion is negative.
Bottom line ... this account should have been frozen immediately and not left open. If Royal does decide not to pay him, and they don't pay his winnings on the bets placed after he was notified about this situation, then Royal will have permanently shot themselves in the foot with respect to how I personally feel about them, and of course what I'll say about them. Meaning, if they are taking bets after they say there's a problem, and they don't pay those bets, the only possible conclusion is negative.
Wil - agreed. In fact, I was really surprised Velton would have bothered - UNLESS he's an inveterate gambler whose big chunk was at this one book and he couldn't stand it. Point is, you can't expect a real gambler to exercise discretion, which is why Royal should have frozen the account to avoid possible criticism. Again, as it is, if they decide against Velton, and won't pay the post-problem wagers, it will look pretty bad for them. And Velton, if you read this, QUIT PLACING WAGERS AT ROYAL UNTIL THIS IS SETTLED!!!!
TT: true, but Jesus, they need to accept that they might have to go a few days or weeks before getting more action if they were unwise enough to place the bulk of their offshore assets in a single book. Besides, if Royal claims he was a scammer and refused to pay anything, what do you think that player would feel then??
TT: true, but Jesus, they need to accept that they might have to go a few days or weeks before getting more action if they were unwise enough to place the bulk of their offshore assets in a single book. Besides, if Royal claims he was a scammer and refused to pay anything, what do you think that player would feel then??
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Slow pay disputes at books that are continuing to pay everybody else almost always involve some sort of misbehaviour by the the bettor <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We aren't exactly talking about WWTS here. Royal was slow paying everyone 50 days ago?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Royal continues to allow this player to make any bets whatsoever if they suspect a scam, unless they think (1) he's innocent or (2) he's guilty, and they think they won't have to pay if he wins <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These are bets he could of placed elsewhere. 100% is the case.
What is the problem really? We already covered that Royal has tiny bonus limts. Are Royal's lines so slow to move that they think a player might of risked all this money because Royal was the only game in town and he needed more action?
I have brought this example up before but...
I was in a fantasy hoops league with many people from my hometown only. I set up a link for them to join some good books which they did. I also posted my plays in the league which they played. I also sent funds to and from as we had money riding on the league.
Under these circumstances... this would make me a scammer?
[This message was edited by BillDozer on February 23, 2004 at 02:00 AM.]
We aren't exactly talking about WWTS here. Royal was slow paying everyone 50 days ago?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Royal continues to allow this player to make any bets whatsoever if they suspect a scam, unless they think (1) he's innocent or (2) he's guilty, and they think they won't have to pay if he wins <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
These are bets he could of placed elsewhere. 100% is the case.
What is the problem really? We already covered that Royal has tiny bonus limts. Are Royal's lines so slow to move that they think a player might of risked all this money because Royal was the only game in town and he needed more action?
I have brought this example up before but...
I was in a fantasy hoops league with many people from my hometown only. I set up a link for them to join some good books which they did. I also posted my plays in the league which they played. I also sent funds to and from as we had money riding on the league.
Under these circumstances... this would make me a scammer?
[This message was edited by BillDozer on February 23, 2004 at 02:00 AM.]
