Should CFB Players Unionize?

[cloverleaf]

I'm sure you have heard about Northwestern football players wanting to unionize. Backed by support from the United Steelworkers, quarterback Kain Colter has taken a lead role in a bid to form the first union for college athletes in US history. Colter was asked why Northwestern gave him a $75,000 a year scholarship...worth $300,000 during a four year career. He complained about too many hours for football and athlete's have little say in what they go through.

I have a suggestion for this misguided idiot, don't play football and pay your own way through school. Maybe take a drive to Michigan and tour the city of Detroit. Hey coach, we're not going to practice until we talk with our union representive. Coach, I'm starting this week...you need to talk to our union rep. Coach, we are only going to practice three days a week this season....talk with the union rep. Fricken zoo!!

I can tell you one damn thing, southern football will never be unionized. Welcome your comments.

hno:

!

 

[CoachCB]

It's absurd.

It'll be funny when NW says, "Well, fuck you. We are going to eliminate all of our athletic teams." Or go D3 and not offer scholarships at all. Just do it for 1 season. Then start from scratch.

The average person sits back and says, "Yeah! These kids SHOULD get paid!" Why does the average person do this? Because they are uninformed/uneducated idiots.

Less than 1% of D1 CFB players will play in the NFL. At most schools, especially the former "BCS" schools, these kids get the best of everything...including, but not limited to: tutors, food (unlimited), off-campus apartments (or the best on-campus housing available), they get accepted to colleges that they would NEVER get into without being a gifted athlete, they get Pell Grant money on top of their scholarships, etc.

Steve Spurrier, who I love to death, keeps making the argument about paying the athletes the "full amount" of a scholarship (which includes incidental expenses that are not included in scholarships - such as living expenses for items such as cell phones, clothing, auto insurance, etc). This is fine at a school like South Carolina who plays in the SEC and shares in the wealth of a power conference. Non-BCS schools do not have this luxury. Most of these schools run on a deficit. Schools such as Idaho, New Mexico, Troy, UAB, Central Michigan, etc would have to shut down some of their athletic teams.

The other issue which is NEVER brought up when CFB players and CBB players piss and cry about they should be paid is Title IX: ANY school that pays just 1 football player a dollar is going to have to pay the woman's golf team that same dollar...the woman's tennis team...the men's cross country team....the men's baseball team...etc. So, now, instead of having to pay 85 scholarship football players and 13 scholarship men's BB players...you're going to pay every single kid in the athletic department on scholarship. THEN...why do the walk-on/non-scholarship players get nothing? Do they get paid too?

It's a ridiculous can of worms. These kids at NW need to get their ass kicked. But, in that part of the country, Unions are a big deal.

I was a member of the IAFF (firefighters union). It was the biggest waste of money I've ever wasted (and I've wasted some money in my life). It's nothing but a good-ole-boys club and if you're not a GOB you're not worth their time. BUT they certainly want your dues!

 

[MackDonald]

I'm sure it was meant to be "cute"......unionizing student-athletes....I wish the "Cattlemen's Association" would take-over the existing unions and clean that mess-up.

 

[GoSooners]

Coach, I was a member of a union for many years. And was also a union representative for a few years. Although there are some shitty things I don't like about local unions, I know that in many places of work they are an absolute necessity, where workers would be in physical danger from their jobs if they weren't there to represent them and keep the company in line and working within OSHA guidelines. But in these students cases, it's a much different story, and I agree with everything you said. Other students who are 100% in it for an education work full time jobs and go to school full time. Where is their union representation? It's ridiculous! Just because you have a certain skill it doesn't mean you should get special treatment. Almost everybody who doesn't have rich parents, struggles through school. In my day, college athletes (OU football players) went to work full time. They were called 89ers for the 89 days they worked during the summer. If they worked 90 days the companies were required to pay their benefits. They made plenty of money to get them through the entire year. And then came back to work the next year. Maybe these schools/coaches should stop making college football a year round full time job and let these kids go out and earn a buck during the summer. If it worked 30 years ago for players I worked beside like Brian Bosworth and Tony Cassilias, who both eventually went to the NFL, there's no reason why it shouldn't work for today's players.

 

[CoachCB]

Coach, I was a member of a union for many years. And was also a union representative for a few years. Although there are some shitty things I don't like about local unions, I know that in many places of work they are an absolute necessity, where workers would be in physical danger from their jobs if they weren't there to represent them and keep the company in line and working within OSHA guidelines. But in these students cases, it's a much different story, and I agree with everything you said. Other students who are 100% in it for an education work full time jobs and go to school full time. Where is their union representation? It's ridiculous! Just because you have a certain skill it doesn't mean you should get special treatment. Almost everybody who doesn't have rich parents, struggles through school. In my day, college athletes (OU football players) went to work full time. They were called 89ers for the 89 days they worked during the summer. If they worked 90 days the companies were required to pay their benefits. They made plenty of money to get them through the entire year. And then came back to work the next year. Maybe these schools/coaches should stop making college football a year round full time job and let these kids go out and earn a buck during the summer. If it worked 30 years ago for players I worked beside like Brian Bosworth and Tony Cassilias, who both eventually went to the NFL, there's no reason why it shouldn't work for today's players.

Who was the Oklahoma QB in the early 90's who had a very lucrative summer job that ended up costing him his OU career? Bohmar?

Regarding unions; it's 2014. There are so many employment rules these days it's hard for employees to get screwed the way they did in the late 1800's/early 1900's. Look at the recent South Carolina vote at the Volkswagon plant. Good for them for voting it down. Unions run up the cost to companies to do business...then we question why jobs get outsourced overseas. There may be a small fraction of jobs today that require a union. Otherwise there are other laws/rules in place to protect the worker. When I got out of the IAFF my reasoning was that they were not representing my interests and if I did "get in trouble" I'd get my own lawyer/representative.

 

[GoSooners]

Who was the Oklahoma QB in the early 90's who had a very lucrative summer job that ended up costing him his OU career? Bohmar?

Regarding unions; it's 2014. There are so many employment rules these days it's hard for employees to get screwed the way they did in the late 1800's/early 1900's. Look at the recent South Carolina vote at the Volkswagon plant. Good for them for voting it down. Unions run up the cost to companies to do business...then we question why jobs get outsourced overseas. There may be a small fraction of jobs today that require a union. Otherwise there are other laws/rules in place to protect the worker. When I got out of the IAFF my reasoning was that they were not representing my interests and if I did "get in trouble" I'd get my own lawyer/representative.

Yeah, that was Bomar. One of the stupidest things I've seen done by a player of his caliber. It pretty much ruined him. Coach, i won't go into all of the details involving the auto business. But I can tell you in the 80's and 90's when car sales were through the roof, GM, Ford etc. were more than willing to pay their employees higher wages. And the unions didn't have to work hard to negotiate those wages. But bad management leading to bankruptcy is what was GM's downfall. Not the union like they would like everyone to believe. Ford is union, but they are a sleeker and much better run company, and never has filed for bankruptcy like Chrysler and GM. GM's management consisted of a bunch of old codgers from the 50's & 60's still running the company. And they all had the mindset that they didn't need to change and were too big to fail. When it finally caught up with them and they had to start closing auto plants around the country in the last half of the Bush Administation, this time the longtime employees of the company had a safety net, and were able to retire out. If it hadn't been for all of the plant closings in Flint in the 70's that resulted in their employees getting laid off with no pay and no benefits, this would have never happened. But the national union negotiated that safety net after all of those lives were ruined, along with pretty much the whole city of Flint. The documentary Roger and Me exposed all of this didaster very well. As for those people at the new Volkswagon Plant who voted down the union, I say good luck. They don't have room now to bitch when the company starts demanding working double shifts. And when they start missing a screw or two on the assembly line and the company says a third strike or your out, they now don't have any room to bitch about it. And nobody that will fight for them in their corner. And when or if they want to sue the company for their job, they'll have to pay for their own lawyers, instead of getting the free legal service they would have gotten with the union. I could go on forever because I've seen it all when it comes to seeing what the company will try to get away with. They are so big that you're just another warm body to them. This pretty much goes the same way with the steel, shipbuilding, aeronautics and other big factory businesses.

 

[CoachCB]

GS, we'll have to agree to disagree re: unions. I see where you're coming from, but the proof is there: it's corrupt.

Can players still work a summer job?

 

[GoSooners]

GS, we'll have to agree to disagree re: unions. I see where you're coming from, but the proof is there: it's corrupt.

Can players still work a summer job?

Some of these players work a summer job, and some don't. The Bomar incident was just 9 years ago, and I don't think things have changed that much, except maybe the schools keep a closer eye on donors offering athletes summer jobs.. The off season schedule for players is more rigorous these days. But there is no reason with school out and no studies that they can't work out and then go to work. They've even got work/study programs on campus for athletes that are actually smart and want to learn. But I think nowadays the only thing most of these players are working is the cheerleaders. I just don't see any of the bigtime Divison 1 players in this country burning the onion rings in a fast food joint on a Saturday night. I think most of them feel like they are above those jobs. But me, and probably 90% of students out there had to work those kinds of jobs through college. I was just reading a few quotes from some of the former players from Ohio State. This is the reason why I laugh when half of the players out there think they are being exploited by the universities:



Ridiculous.

Terrelle Pryor (the face of Ohio State football): "Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever."
Aldolphus Washington, typical Buckeye recruit: "The academic support at Ohio State, there is no way you can fail. Even if you're giving minimal effort there is no way you can fail."
Reserve Buckeye QB Cardale Jones (a reserve, mind you): Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS
Overheard from a Buckeye fan: "Who the hell do these kids think they are? They are supposed to take a scholarship to go play football. Don't give me this academics and I want to future past football herp derp crap."
Maurice Clarrett on his experiences at dOSU He was a hard worker in practice and in games. But off the field, he was living a completely different life. "I took golf, fishing, and softball as classes," Clarett says. "Away from class, anything you can think of I did in my 13 months at Ohio State." Drugs and women were two of the things. Cars were another. He owned three of them at a time, including a brand-new Cadillac and Lexus. "I was living the NFL life in college," he says. "I got paid more in college than I do now in the UFL."

 

[hitman123]

If CFB players are able to unionize, without question, the NCAA would be in huge trouble. CFB players unionizing would result in a rippling effect throughout the entire college sports world, and could even reach high school level as well. If athletes at any level are able to unionize, then we'll most likely start hearing names of sports agents and agency representatives more often. Because of the amount of money the NCAA makes, compared to the minimal scholarships student athletes receive, players have a legitimate reason to unionize....If I were Jay-Z, I would be paving the path for these student athletes to unionize and get represented by him.

 

[Conan]

Instead of a money-hungry, allowance-thievin, greasy porkchop grubbing....

First of all, Title IX money applies only to public funds. Private alumni associations, private boosters, private sports related organizations like EA sports, Adidas, Nike, Reebok, ABC sports, Disney, ESPN etc. should not be denied access to players and their associates (teammates) that are capable of generating tons of cash for these private sports related organizations and mathematically no doubt a ton more than the universities make. Everyone born to a mother has the right to sell their personal services to anyone. Enrolling in a college should have no bearing on one's right to earn a living by selling his talents and services, even his autograph on sports memorabilia such as a trading card that bears his image. To see a player's family impoverished and suffering while their son is being used for food doesn't set well with me.

Enrolling in a college and making the team in effect helps the school in establishing an organized sport. The player does not own the organized sport just because he made the team, rather the school owns the organization known as the XYZ University Football team. The individual players often come and go which makes their value to the organization transitory and limited to a few years. Every player that makes the team acquired an equal value to the organization insofar as populating the team with a preset number of players. Superstars may go beyond the equal value roster status and forge their own private deals provided that they don't detract from his value to his team. On the flip-side, these rosters, these entities owned by the universities are collectively organized further into conferences that negotiate TV contracts and make other deals with various sports related organizations. And beyond that, the conferences and its members and several independents collectively join together to establish a major segment of the NCAA known as College Football.

I'm getting there, so bear with me just a bit more.

The point of all of this is that somewhere between birth and signing day, every player has surrendered his right to negotiate for his services. Technically he owns no part of the NCAA yet his presence on a roster personally populates a part of the whole of his school's conference and CFB and therefor he clearly represents part of its value. In the final analysis, (for example) ESPN's cash outlays pay CFB's ownership for staging games between rosters consisting of the very players that populate the team rosters. It is the collective body of conferences and teams that have curbed the players right given to him at birth to market his talents and individual services, his image and also his autograph.

As it now stands, every cent of ESPN's contract payments are disbursed by the NCAA, the conferences and the universities. Public money that potentially and most certainly falls under Title IX is the ultimate obstacle standing between the players and a reasonable portion of TONS of money which could otherwise be paid to the players without consequence or repercussion.... [provided that the funds were never publicly owned.]

What would be the problem with ESPN (e.g.) holding back...say $1,000,000 per school per year (or adding it to a TV deal) and instead giving it to the non-union college football players association chapter at each member school and let them pass around decent grants to the players. It's never been tagged as public money so it is Title IX exempt. In turn for indemnifying the universities from frivolous labor related lawsuits (players must sign an arbitration agreement to receive any funds) and its assistance in resolving any player grievances, the local players' association chapter agrees to track and report all other private "donations" and benefits (according to a somewhat looser set of restrictions) to the football department for the sake of demonstrating institutional control where 99% of the reports are read and round filed.

If school use of Title IX funds are going to put the lady's shot put coach's panties in a bunch... why not "figuratively speaking" kill 1 bird with 2 stones?

 

[CoachCB]

Conan,

If ANY Federal money goes to a school....private, public, whatever the school must comply with Title IX. So if ANY kid at that school gets a Pell Grant the football program MUST comply with Title IX.

Done. No further arguement. It's a FEDERAL LAW!!!!! That's why men's sports (outside of football) get fucked. That's why most colleges don't have men's volleyball, soccer, field hockey, etc (I know, Stanford does, but they are the exception).

 

[Conan]

Coach, I agree that it will take a considerable act of severance from the powers at be to pull an end run for even so much as a single school to skirt the law. A school would have to say"no thanks" to everything the feds had to offer. Even poor students who had been eating off of food stamps may need to switch to privately funded meals on wheels.

But the main strategy I had written above involved a private group (the college football players association and its local chapter) that is independent had no part in accepting anything from anyone other than some big sponsors that profited plenty through their associations with various parts of CFB and their sponsorships. They exist 100% independent of the University.

What you have brought to light is that the feds play it dirty even in the world of hypothetical. Something as noble sounding as equal pay for female athletes quickly degrades into punishment by proxy... to use gender discrimination and TITLE IX as leverage to guarantee that where the rubber hits he road, no one gets paid. Well..... so much for a public solution.

 

[Conan]

Coach, I can see where I neglected to specifically state in the first post that the "College Football Players Association" was a private organization funded strictly by private companies and run exclusively by its own independent staff. It is an autonomous organization that has met the criteria set forth by the NCAA to provide players with proper and legal benefits.

 

[GoSooners]

A college player's union wouldn't have the power to get anything done. For one thing, you just can't gather a bunch of players together and call it a union. it takes money to run a union. It takes a lot of money to run a strong union. You have to pay for legal advice, representation etc. And lawyers don't work for free. Where is the money going to come from if the players aren't earning a salary? And who would even sponsor a players union? Futile idea.

 

[Conan]

GoSooners, my original idea was to fund the players association through the same sponsors or corporations that pay for (have paid for in the past) everything. However this time the money funds a foundation who's sole function is to provide player benefits. The reason for this was to find money for paying players that wouldn't invoke TITLE IX RULES. Looking at at the '"Player's Association" in a different light, consider them to be a temporary employment agency or a private labor pool. And insofar as why players are paid by the TV networks and the "EA Sports" of the world is concerned, they are paying the players as entertainers to a point. The colleges and conferences get paid for managing their respective teams, organizing and staging games and events and providing trainers, training facilities, coaches and instruction.

I realize that this is a radical change away from the business model that CFB has developed for itself over the years. However just admit it, today's college football ain't the game your grandfather knew.

 

[MackDonald]

GoSooners, my original idea was to fund the players association through the same sponsors or corporations that pay for (have paid for in the past) everything. However this time the money funds a foundation who's sole function is to provide player benefits. The reason for this was to find money for paying players that wouldn't invoke TITLE IX RULES. Looking at at the '"Player's Association" in a different light, consider them to be a temporary employment agency or a private labor pool. And insofar as why players are paid by the TV networks and the "EA Sports" of the world is concerned, they are paying the players as entertainers to a point. The colleges and conferences get paid for managing their respective teams, organizing and staging games and events and providing trainers, training facilities, coaches and instruction.

I realize that this is a radical change away from the business model that CFB has developed for itself over the years. However just admit it, today's college football ain't the game your grandfather knew.

Amen.........Grampa did indeed see (listened) to a different game/tune . I remember, after much prodding by the "nags", when Title-IX became law back during the 70's.....how boys/men's sports began its gradual change to comply and how it effected the thinking of those that oversaw the conferences and the NCAA.
I recall how the University of Wisconsin had to drop men's baseball to allow women's field hockey etc. to fit-into the athletic program. It was the beginning of the dumbing-down of the male-animal, the results of which are visible today....(a whole other topic).