Sen. John Thune (R)-SD: give $936 billion in middle class tax cuts

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Oh boy!
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http://thune.senate.gov/public/inde...0228-4e07-be0d-775eaf48948b&Month=2&Year=2009

Sen. Thune says that the $936 billion economic stimulus bill would create as little as 1.3 million jobs over 2 years. That's almost $800,000 per job!

He suggests giving $936 billion in middle class tax cuts.

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February 6th, 2009 - Washington, D.C. - Senator John Thune today introduced an across-the-board middle class tax rebate amendment (S. AMDT #538) to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. Senator Thune's amendment would strike the entire $936 billion Senate stimulus bill and replace it with a $936 billion across-the-board-middle-class tax rebate for 182 million Americans. The amendment would result in a tax rebate of $5,143 for single filers and $10,286 for married couples who file jointly. Eligibility is capped for all tax filers at 2007 adjusted gross income of $250,000.

"There seems to be a great deal of discussion over how to spend American taxpayers' money and future earnings. Instead of investing billions in wasteful government programs that won't provide immediate help to our troubled economy, my amendment invests in the American people," said Thune. "I think most Americans believe they know how to best spend their own money and would rather have control over it than have the government create new federal programs, or waste it on pet pork projects that will not stimulate the economy. My amendment is an equitable way to ensure that virtually all working Americans benefit from this economic stimulus plan. This is substantial tax relief for middle class families."

In 2007, roughly 53 million joint and 76 million single tax returns were filed with an adjusted gross income of less than $250,000.

"If people are serious about the need for this stimulus bill to be timely, the fastest way to inject money into our economy is through tax returns. We could have $936 billion into the economy by the end of the year. Taxpayers want help and they don't want us wasting their hard-earned tax dollars on programs that won't benefit anyone in the near future. This amendment addresses all of the nation's leading economists who have said that any stimulus bill needs to be timely, targeted, and temporary."

Senator Thune explained his amendment on the floor of the U.S. Senate today. The Senate is expected to vote on Senator Thune's amendment later this afternoon.
 

"Here we go again"
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......But that helps the people, not the private bankers and big corporations who run our government.
 

Oh boy!
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......But that helps the people, not the private bankers and big corporations who run our government.

It doesn't create the bureaucracy that politicians love also.

Really though, it's all about control. The politicians want to control where the money gets spent.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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well that would be the dubya way

cut taxes and keep government spending flat or add programs thus increasing the overall debt burden down the road

and in this economy and such where people are starting to wisen up and not be debt whores anymore alot would go into savings or paying down on debt

government wants the money to be spent one way or the other and to dig a deeper debt burden near term

neither solution will work

only time, pain, and a return to fiscal responsibility on both the part of government and the taxpayer will solve our problems long term

seems like the citizens of the US are starting to smarten up some as we are starting to see american's savings rate start to go up in the data

government on the other hand isn't

-----------------------------------------

the main concern of government in general though

is that UE gets outta hand and we have civil unrest which would undermine the fiat ponzi scheme even more

also a key part to this legislation is getting money to the states to ensure they can at least keep providing UE and foodstamp programs and such.....

as we've seen cali is in deep deep shit for instance...and many state budgets will get very fugly later on this year....

this near term spending will likely allow them to flatten out the UE longer term so we don't have a dark deep spike in UE....or at least provide people with UE pay and foodstamps so they aren't out rioting on the streets.....but the overall pain of the recession will be more and drag out for longer....like in the 30s

basically like obama said their fear is we will never recover....aka you have hoards of UE hitting the streets demanding answers rioting etc...and the fiat ponzi scheme comes crumbling down just like a madoff ponzi scheme
 
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the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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i just googled state tax revenue january

and this popped up i'm sure most states the same

mass tax rev down 22% yoy in jan

the next big problem in the deflationary spiral of death is state budgets

cali just the tip of the iceburg

------------------------

BOSTON - January 22, 2009 - More troubling news regarding state revenues. The latest figures show the state took in 22 percent less in the first half of this month than a year ago.

WBUR's Steve Brown has more.

Tax collections fell by $248 million in the first half of January. State revenue commissioner Navjeet Bal says the drop was consistent with expectations, forecast by a drop in estimated income tax payments and a decrease in withholding.
 

bushman
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The other problem for local government is returns on cash banked.

The low interest rate means that even in the thumb sized UK, they are losing about a billion dollars of revenue each year.

--------------------------------------------------------
Council funds facing rate squeeze

The Bank of England base rate is at a historic low
Council budgets are under growing pressure due to Bank of England cuts to interest rates, the Local Government Association has said.

It says councils across England expect the base rate cut to 1% will leave them more than £600m a year worse off.

They rely on the interest earned on money they have invested to supplement income from council tax, government grants and charges for some services.

It says it hopes for a return to a "more balanced and sustainable rate".

The councils' investment income is expected to drop sharply as a result of the historically low base rate.

Newcastle City Council, for example, has annual investments of more than £200m and estimates it will lose more than £1m for every half-a-percentage point drop in interest rates.

Last week's cut, the fifth in a row by the Bank of England, means the base rate has fallen by four percentage points since September.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7876149.stm
 

RX Senior
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I'm not going to defend or bash this stimulus, but the math being used seems a bit hokey.

Is it really fair in truth to take the cost and divide it by the number of jobs to guage the effectiveness of the projects? Are you not left with bridges and paved roads - along with spinoff benefits to suppliers etc?

I realize it's still a lot of money etc, but this seems like the math people used to force cuts in pay for auto workers. As if someone things like rising costs in power, the cost to ship parts, maintainence on tools etc were never factored in to the overall cost.

Right or wrong, I believe the thinking is that with the creation of these temporary jobs, that the infusion of money into the economy in the form of these people working, suppliers and ancillary business' being able to stay afloat, that it basically buys time for the economy to rebound.

Just my guess, and I'm not going to debate whether it's right or wrong, but to say stuff like "that's 800,000 per job" seems pretty slanted.
 

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KT looks like you defended it to me. Oh thats right your Mesiah wants it so it must be OK. Just shows that everyone who voted for this moron is having a battle with themselves. Thinking wow do I look like an idiot. LOL Its going to fuck us all.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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also just a heads up for your state taxes for this fiscal year 2009

i'd try to make sure you aren't getting a refund from the state....meaning you pay the state too much taxes

as i'm thinking come apr 15th 2010 many states will be pulling the IOU like i think cali will be for fiscal year 2008 for tax refunds
 

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Tax cuts? Seems to me that unemployment provides a great tax cut. No income, no income tax. Problem solved. :howdy:
 

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Tax cuts? Seems to me that unemployment provides a great tax cut. No income, no income tax. Problem solved. :howdy:



Thats not fucking funny. I unlike all the welfare anchors on society do not plan on living off the system for the rest of my life.


Not sure why you would say something like that. You know this is a big blow to my (our) financial future and well being. I find nothing funny about it.

^^:)
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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I'm not going to defend or bash this stimulus, but the math being used seems a bit hokey.

Is it really fair in truth to take the cost and divide it by the number of jobs to guage the effectiveness of the projects? Are you not left with bridges and paved roads - along with spinoff benefits to suppliers etc?

I realize it's still a lot of money etc, but this seems like the math people used to force cuts in pay for auto workers. As if someone things like rising costs in power, the cost to ship parts, maintainence on tools etc were never factored in to the overall cost.

Right or wrong, I believe the thinking is that with the creation of these temporary jobs, that the infusion of money into the economy in the form of these people working, suppliers and ancillary business' being able to stay afloat, that it basically buys time for the economy to rebound.

Just my guess, and I'm not going to debate whether it's right or wrong, but to say stuff like "that's 800,000 per job" seems pretty slanted.

KTV, good to see you pulling up a stool at the PoliticoPub after a rather lengthy time away
 

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KTV re; residual value. An article in the DMN about how 10 of the local parks that we use today were built by WPA/CCC in the 30's
 
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So where are the temporary job creation programs similar to CCC and WPA in this so called stimulus package? I emphasize temporary.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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KTV, welcome back

as for any job creation projection, they have no idea. None of them, all of them, whomever or whatever. Tweak a variable here and there, it becomes 800,000,000 new jobs, or 80,000 less.

However, I do believe people and businesses spending all that money will have an undeniably better and quicker impact on the economy then some bureaucratic laced earmark project.

People spending money in their hometowns is what's important, right now they've been scared to death. I put the blame for fear right at the feet of the fear-mongerers and their enablers.
 
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the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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People spending money in their hometowns is what's important, right now they've been scared to death. I put the blame for fear right at the feet of the fear-mongerers and their enablers.

why do you keep on insisting its about people being scared to death

i mean there's fear but for a good reason...the job market blows...the housing market has crashed...many people don't have savings to fall back on since they didn't save anything for a rainy day when the going was good like many of our states budgets such as cali....

you yourself said you are telling your clients to scale back cut staff etc....that's just reality of the situation

tiz with his gloom doom talk before the bottom fell out could see this coming...it wasn't hard to see....

its quite simple the recent past was a mirage of easy credit so people could live well beyond their means for way to long

now the party has stopped...people actually gotta save and think about retirement and the future rather than what they want today to make them happy...spend based on what they earn....and with jobs and such being slashed at the same time its double trouble in that americans overall are getting less money in their hands
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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Tizdoom, once again, when people who can spend money don't, when people who have job security and need a new car but refuse to buy that new car, we have a problem, we have a self fulfilling prophecy.

We are going through a retraction, just like we have many times before. The question becomes how deep and how long does it run. Your ilk has literally proclaimed the "next great depression" many a time, batting zero to date.

Advising layoffs and expense reduction is essential for businesses to survive, but I give no such advice to those growing and making money. When the business survives, they eventually start to grow again. It's really not rocket science.

Consumer confidence is the single most economic variable, that's my informed opinion. When such confidence is being attacked every day the messiah, in his effort to pass an earmark whore's bill, that's incredibly stupid and diabolically wicked. He's either dumb or dishonest or some combination thereof.

Now you be sure to watch out for that falling sky.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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well my ilk (me personally) wasn't around during past times of doom

the 70s/80s the last big trouble was completely different inflation is easy to fight by our monetary controllers....deflation on the other hand is not....

reason this is a depression this time

is because it is global

every market worldwide is retracting and at a rapid pace

anyway keep stickin that head in the sand and complaining about self fulfilling prophecy all this was easy to see coming

we are undergoing the worst banking crises since the 1930s i think u can agree with that and most depressions centerpiece roots in the financial system being under stress...obviously you need alot of other variables to go along with it.....like a stretched consumer that was on a 20+ year spending spree....while the rest of the world made alot of shit and made big profits off our consumption so in turn their economies were expanding unsustainably to boot......or state budgets that became big bloated buracracies that didn't save up enough for a rainy day so now that shit hitting they fan they have nothing to fall back on......or companies themselves not just the banks who took on gobs of debt to overexpand their businesses, to buy up other companies, or buy back their own shares and what not.....anyway i could go on and on

also you say people are saving now....well good for them....historically.people saved 8-9% of their paychecks like the japs typically do.....recently we were at 0% pretty much.....now its up to 2.9% in the most recent quarter......our savings is still very very historically low rate.....there are people right now that still have a job living paycheck to paycheck just outta necessity....you act like people really have many options in an economy that now has 7.6% UE (higher in reality), employers are slashing pay for those still having jobs, and people don't know if they will be axed tomorrow....

i guess we'll just have to see willie my man

@)

just like we had to see on dow sub 10k back in the day
 
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