SBG Global F1 Racing line Change

[christrinder]

Wilheim,

I sent the email below to you (wilheim@therx.com) on 23.04.09 and have no reply. Perhaps you could get in touch with me?

*****************

I placed a bet with SBG Global on Jenson Button to win the F1 Championship before the start of the F1 season at 70/1 ($300 to win $21K). SBG Global have contacted me saying they wish to void the bet (or give me below the current price (even money!) on the bet).

I think this is unacceptable and they should pay me out a the price that the bet was placed at (if Button wins the championship). I have placed similar bets with other bookmakers at similar prices who are all honoring the bets. This is NOT a case of 'palpable error' - this was the accurate market price at that point.

The reason that SBG Global have stated that they wish to void the bet is that there were 'facts in the public domain that we were unaware of'. I do not what these facts are - the only things I can't think of are

- that the team had a management buyout
- good testing times in pre season testing

However, I don;t see why my bet should be void due to SBG's lack of knowledge of public facts. What do you suggest I do? Apparently this decision had been taken at Board Level by SGB Global.

Regards.

Chris Trinder
chris.trinder@gmail.com
http://kickingbets.blogspot.com

 

[wilheim]

For The Record.

I sent the email below to you (wilheim@therx.com) on 23.04.09 and have no reply. Perhaps you could get in touch with me?

Recently I have been having difficulty with wilheim@therx.com (notice my postername and email address below it).


Please forward any email to person19481950@yahoo.com with a CC. if you use wilheim@therx.com or just use person19481950@yahoo.com

http://64.40.114.10/showthread.php?t=678807

http://64.40.114.10/showthread.php?t=285776

Thank you, wilheim

 

[christrinder]

For all to review/comment - correpsondence between Wilheim (RX Moderator) and Chris TRinder - W = Wilheim , CT = Chris Trinder

W- Hello Chris, I was able to speak to Randall at SBG Global just now and he informed me he has already had a lengthy conversation with you regarding this matter.

CT- This is incorrect. He has had a single, approx 5 mins conversaton

W- I need you to understand that I cannot force any sport book to change their policies, I can only inquire into why they do what they do and if an error has been made try to get it corrected.

CT- No problem fully understand.


W- In this case the line provider for SBG Global for F1 Racing was very late updating important new changes applicable to the F1 season driver odds.

CT- The line provider was not late in updating importnat new changes applicable to F1. What happened was that there was a series of well publicised rule changes over the winter. It was unclear how these changes would affect the performance of the cars. As Jenson Button had performed very poorly last year, he was quoted at a general 66-1 by all bookmakes. This was the price that the line provider quoted SBG Global i.e. a an accurate market price. Jenson Button then performed well in testing. I backed Jenson Button at several bookmakers (including SBG Gloabl) at 40/1-66/1. All except SBG Global are happy to pay up at these odds. SBG Global were probably the last to take money on this market (being a US bookmaker) and hence the last to change their lines.


W- Leaving SBG Global exposed at an unfair 70-1 on what ultimately became an even money bet when the first race started. Many individuals purposely opened accounts at SBG Global solely to take advantage of the bad line erroneously posted by SBG Global and for no other reason.

CT- 70-1 is not unfair. SBG Global are calling it unfair as it leaves them with a substantial liability. Do you think they would have been calling it unfair if Jenson Button at performed poorly in the fisrt 2 races of the season? Do you think they would have been ringing me up to cancel the bet? It was not a bad line. It was a mismanaged book.These are very different things. I opened my account to take advantage of their mismanagement of this line, but that should not jeopardise my position. It was not an even money chance at the start of the seaon - this is a lie. It was probably an approx 16-1 chance, as can be seen on http://www.oddschecker,com. He has never been even money. The closest he has got to even money was the 2-1 he touched after the first 2 races when SBG Global first contacted me. If they were unhappy with the 70-1, why did they not contact me before the start of the season and offer me 16-1 then. I suspect the reason was they wanted to see Button's preformance in the first 2 races. Good performance = offer even money (the only offer I have had). Bad performance = let the bet continue and keep the money.


W- There is a very good possibility that if Jenson Button does win the prop for The 2009 F1 Championship Driver that SBG Global will make a compromise with you by paying odds in the vicinity of anywhere from 11 to 17 to 1. However that conversation will only occur when the F1 2009 season is over and if Jenson Buttton is the winner.

CT- I will be expecting to be paid up at the price I placed the bet at, 70-1.

W- Randall will be glad to discuss this further with you anytime, just call him at SBG Global. I wish I could say there is a chance for your wager to be changed to 70-1 but that is not going to happen according to the information I was just given.

CT- Is there any point calling him if he continues to mislead?

 

[wilheim]

Regarding Christrinder and SBG Global

I was contacted by newbie poster Christrinder and asked if I could help him with his future prop F1 Racing bet on driver Jenson Button on May 1st. I responded immediately the same day with the following email:

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Wilheim <person19481950@yahoo.com> wrote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Hello Chris, thank you for writing, I am sorry to see you find yourself in this difficult situation. What I need to take your case to SBG Global is your SBG Global account number, the name on that account and if you have it the wager number. Once I have this information I will contact SBG Global and inquire as to the disposition of your wager.

I will do my best to assist you (to) receive a fair result as I can but please remember I do not have the power to force any of our sponsors to change their policies. I know SBG Global is interested in doing the right thing mainly because after four years as head moderator at The Rx.com I cannot remember any other major disputes sent to me involving SBG Global.

Unless I have the account number and name on the account I cannot tell SBG Global who we are trying to assist.

Please advise. Right now it is 2:30AM here in Costa Rica, I will have to wait until at least 10AM local time here in Costa Rica to attempt to reach upper management at SBG Global (naturally assuming I have the information I need from you).

I promise to keep you updated immediately when I receive any information and stick with you until the matter is settled one way or another. I should warn you this may be a difficult
dispute to mediate but as I have said I will do all I can to try and help you and will be here until there is nothing more to be done..

I very much hope some sort of reconciliation can be made in this case.

Thank you, wilheim


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I won't post his private email except to say he did supply me with the account number and name on the SBG Global account. From there it took me several days to reach uppermanagement at SBG Global (there was a weekend in the middle of the process) finally on May 6th I was able to reach Randall at SBG Global and had a lengthy conversation with him regarding the matter. I emailed the folowing to Christinder:

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Wilheim <person19481950@yahoo.com> wrote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Hello Chris, I was able to speak to Randall at SBG Global just now and he informed me he has already had a lengthy conversation with you regarding this matter.

I need you to understand that I cannot force any sport book to change their policies, I can only inquire into why they do what they do and if an error has been made try to get it corrected.

In this case the line provider for SBG Global for F1 Racing was very late updating important new changes applicable to the F1 season driver odds. Leaving SBG Global exposed at an unfair 70-1 on what ultimately became an even money bet when the first race started. Many individuals purposely opened accounts at SBG Global solely to take advantage of the bad line erroneously posted by SBG Global and for no other reason.

There is a very good possibility that if Jenson Button does win the prop for The 2009 F1 Championship Driver that SBG Global will make a compromise with you by paying odds in the vicinity of anywhere from 11 to 17 to 1. However that conversation will only occur when the F1 2009 season is over and if Jenson Buttton is the winner.

Randall will be glad to discuss this further with you anytime, just call him at SBG Global.

I wish I could say there is a chance for your wager to be changed to 70-1 but that is not going to happen according to the information I was just given.

Regards and best of luck, wilheim

You can read Christinder's response above. The one thing that has to be noted here is Janson Button has not won this prop as of today. I believe there are quite a few more races to be run before a champion is crowned. BTW, I did not alter the post by Christrinder above one iota, I simply wanted to verify the link in the post by opening it because I could not get it to open normally. I am sure Christrinder will verify that if he takes the time to read his post.

Anyway, the best I could do was obtain a promise from SBG Global to increase Chirstrinder's wager if Jenson Button wins the prot to somewhere between 11 to 17 to 1. Like I explained from the original email (posted above) I cannot force sponsors to change their policies in cases like this, I can only try my best to get the best deal possible for the player as I can.

As it stands right now SB Global is sticking to their policy which they use in cases like this at least until the actual winner is known there is little I can do to convince them to change that policy.

I know it is my job but FWIW I did try my very best to help this player but right now my hands are tied by SBG Global's official ruling on the matter.

This case is similar to the F1 dispute that involved another player from England that ended with a major book canceling a bet due to information that they were late in obtaining.

Anyone who has worked with me in resolving disputes knows I do my very best to try and resolve the dispute fairly. I hope Christrinder realizes I tried my very best in his behalf and will continue to try and help him when the prop is actually decided one way or another.


Thank you, wilheim

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[christrinder]

Wilheim,

Thansk for your comments and help so far. I hope you were OK with me posting our correspondence as an update for thise who read this forum. My commenst as follows:

**************

W- Anyway, the best I could do was obtain a promise from SBG Global to increase Chirstrinder's wager if Jenson Button wins the prot to somewhere between 11 to 17 to 1. Like I explained from the original email (posted above) I cannot force sponsors to change their policies in cases like this, I can only try my best to get the best deal possible for the player as I can.

CT- They may have made that promise to you to 'increase' the odds from the evens they have offered me (for the 70-1 chance) to between 11 to 17 to 1, but that offer has not been made directly to me. The only offer I currently have is even money.

W- As it stands right now SB Global is sticking to their policy which they use in cases like this at least until the actual winner is known there is little I can do to convince them to change that policy.

I know it is my job but FWIW I did try my very best to help this player but right now my hands are tied by SBG Global's official ruling on the matter.

CT- 'official ruling' implies this ruling was made by an official body. This is not correct. The only 'official' body (the OSGA) to make a decision has ruled in my favour. SBG Global have ignored this ruling. The only decison that has been made in SBG Global's favour is their own internal decision.

W- This case is similar to the F1 dispute that involved another player from England that ended with a major book canceling a bet due to information that they were late in obtaining.

CT- Can you post me details on this (e.g. an Internet Link or description)? I am not aware of any similar case. In this specific case EVERY UK BOOKMAKER I am aware of is honouring this bet.

W- Anyone who has worked with me in resolving disputes knows I do my very best to try and resolve the dispute fairly. I hope Christrinder realizes I tried my very best in his behalf and will continue to try and help him when the prop is actually decided one way or another.

CT- Thank you for you assitance so far. I would like a decision to be made before the end of the season if possible - I do not think this is unreasonable.

 

[wilheim]

christrinder

It's a long thread but it contains most of the details from the original F1 dispute.

"Can you post me details on this (e.g. an Internet Link or description)? I am not aware of any similar case. In this specific case EVERY UK BOOKMAKER I am aware of is honouring this bet".

Link to 7 page thread on F1 dispute from 2005.

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=290460

Thank you for you assitance so far. I would like a decision to be made before the end of the season if possible - I do not think this is unreasonable.

I can try but until an actual winner is declared all odds are basically moot. Your driver could be injured during his next race, no one can tell what is going to happen between now and the end of the F1 season.


BTW - by official ruling I meant SBG Global's internal official ruling. Just a figure of speach. OSGA'S carries little weight if a book doesn't recognize them as you will see if you read the thread linked above..


Best of luck, wilheim