Rule Clarification for me

[Enfuego]

Playing in a live NL tourney today and the dealer and I got into it. Let me know if I'm right or wrong.

4 players bet and the flop comes down and #1 goes all in. #2 calls, #3 is me and I go all in and #4 folds. So, 2 guys are all in and one just called the all ins.

The dealer says "flip your cards over." I tell the dealer I'll leave them down to which he tells me they must come up. I tell him they do not and if I lose at the end I'll muck my cards and walk away. I told him the only time I have to flip them up is at the end if I even want to.

He told me he'd call the pit boss if I wanted because it's a rule. I told him he was wrong. It turns out we all chopped the pot anyway.

What's your opinion?

 

[timotinbowen]

In NL tourneys, when all players' action is finished (ie all but one are allin) all hands are turned face-up immediately.

 

[Enfuego]

In NL tourneys, when all players' action is finished (ie all but one are allin) all hands are turned face-up immediately.

I've seen players all the time in a live tourney go all in and not flip their cards until the end. Why would I have to show them? I know what my cards are and if I win the hand I'll show them and if I lose the hand I'll muck them and go home. There's absolutely no reason for me to have to show my hand other than the casino wants everyone to be able to see the action and I don't care about that.

 

[timotinbowen]

I've seen players all the time in a live tourney go all in and not flip their cards until the end. Why would I have to show them? I know what my cards are and if I win the hand I'll show them and if I lose the hand I'll muck them and go home. There's absolutely no reason for me to have to show my hand other than the casino wants everyone to be able to see the action and I don't care about that.

Dunno, it's just a common rule. Technically, however, you must reveal a hand played to showdown if anyone at the table asks, so the dealer could insist that you show it then anyway.

I guess I don't realize what the big deal is. Don't put all your chips in if you're embarrassed to show your cards. If you suckout and have to reveal your hand, people will think it's low-class anyway. They relate that to a slowroll, because your opponents didn't know what they were trying to dodge.

 

[Enfuego]

Dunno, it's just a common rule. Technically, however, you must reveal a hand played to showdown if anyone at the table asks, so the dealer could insist that you show it then anyway.

I guess I don't realize what the big deal is. Don't put all your chips in if you're embarrassed to show your cards. If you suckout and have to reveal your hand, people will think it's low-class anyway. They relate that to a slowroll, because your opponents didn't know what they were trying to dodge.

If it's not a big deal then nobody should get upset if I don't show them right? People assume a guy is embarrassed but it wasn't the case here. I was low stacked and had an open ended straight draw. I'll be playing there tomorrow hence the reason I didn't want to show possible competition at the table what I was playing. If I would've won I would show. If I lose the hand I'd have mucked and walked away.

 

[timotinbowen]

If it's not a big deal then nobody should get upset if I don't show them right? People assume a guy is embarrassed but it wasn't the case here. I was low stacked and had an open ended straight draw. I'll be playing there tomorrow hence the reason I didn't want to show possible competition at the table what I was playing. If I would've won I would show. If I lose the hand I'd have mucked and walked away.

They were probably upset because you were delaying the game after being told to reveal your cards by the dealer. I'm not criticizing you, I just think you should have complied. Again, if you hit your straight and then table your hand you look like a jerk to others, so it's best to just show it. Also, it avoids the "What do you have?" "You show me first" standoffs that are so obnoxious at the tables. Anyway, good luck tomorrow!

 

[TheRightSide]

Boss in a cash game you don't need to. But in tourny's if that is the last play and no other action can happen you need to sow the hand. This prevents cheating. THis shows that you didn't much a winning hand to give your chips to another player. This keeps the game honest.

I like this rule. If it's good enough for the WSOP its good enough for me.

 

[Enfuego]

Boss in a cash game you don't need to. But in tourny's if that is the last play and no other action can happen you need to sow the hand. This prevents cheating. THis shows that you didn't much a winning hand to give your chips to another player. This keeps the game honest.

I like this rule. If it's good enough for the WSOP its good enough for me.

Good point Right Side and I didn't think of this. My only argument is I played in the same tourney yesterday and I specifically asked the dealer the rule and he told me I didn't need to show my hand. I don't like the inconsistency.

 

[krk1030]

You shhould have to showed. They called your all in, they have the right to see what you have. If they called after the river you would have to show so it's no different/

 

[Enfuego]

You shhould have to showed. They called your all in, they have the right to see what you have. If they called after the river you would have to show so it's no different/

With this common sense then I should have to show my cards in a cash game as well correct? A guy calls my all in and I have to show right? In a cash game (I know the difference boys) nobody has the right to see shit. I either show my winning hand or I muck and walk away. I don't have to show after the river do I? No, I either show or muck my cards.

Can someone seriously answer me this? Why must you show your cards? What is the exact reason for this rule? I'm sure it has to do with cheating but is that it?

 

[Cusipz]

It's primarily cheating, so people can see you are just not dumping tourney chips to your friend. In a cash game, signs of collusion are easier to see as the same people are playing for hours and patterns can emerge.

But it's also just standard tourney procedure, to give the participants excitement. How do you know if you hit a 2 outer to win or was ahead all the time if the guys just mucks at the end, even if both are all in on the flop?

People want to know if they had the best hand, if they are chasing, or drawing dead.

So yes, it's primarily about dumping chips, but also part of the 'thrill' or tourney play, to watch the suckouts and 1-outers get there and see everyone's reactions.

 

[Rambo]

Some casinos have different rules. you may have seen it differently while playing somewhere else.

 

[Whisperz]

All my life I have had tournaments have cards come face up and cash game is optional.

 

[BigBetterRob]

you do not have to show unless a player request to see your cards at the table!... thats it ... tourney cash game what ever... only if someone asks!

 

[krk1030]

I don't get it, if someone calls your bet they should have the right to see your hand.

 

[TheRightSide]

you do not have to show unless a player request to see your cards at the table!... thats it ... tourney cash game what ever... only if someone asks!

Thats just not true. You are wrong on this one. Please know the rules before you post.

Watch any tourny on TV and they always show the cards face up, get the money right than run the cards.


This stops players from chipping up someone on purpose.

 

[Enfuego]

I don't get it, if someone calls your bet they should have the right to see your hand.

I called the all in and the other guy with more chips called my all in.