<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> test Msgid not become a big issue until last Friday after Shrink's post.
test Msg:Which caused a run.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
SHRINK caused the run?
Sting story on 1/19 11:35 Est
If the newly opened sports betting jurisdiction of Panama is truly looking to attract new investors and in particular players, the powers that be need to get off their asses and wake up.
Sports911 looks forward to attending a lavish Super Bowl party in Panama next week, but a dark cloud hangs over this country in the wake of a series of setbacks related to Panama's two flagship wagering companies.
BetPanAm neglected to realize that the country's banking sector was closed down during much of the holidays and for a brief time came under fire from players. The company's software is garbage, a dinosaur that needs to be dumped like the Dodo Bird if BetPanAm intends to be a key player in the industry. Sports911 has advised the wagering firm to switch to another platform immediately. Let's see if they heed our advise.
Meanwhile, the other Panama sportsbook, Legendz, has been stigmatized by its affiliation with underachieving Beverly Hills Bookie, whose owner seems more interested in blowing another dinosaur, MTV pre-90's prepubescent dried up no talent, Pauly Shore, then he is running a serious sports wagering operation. Beverly Hills Bookie's website is now down eight weeks straight and counting.
For all the hoopla, the Panamanian government thus far gets an F- when it comes to following all of its own rules.
Software - The software is supposed to be fair. Only problem being, IQ Ludorem is too fair and the sharps will have a field day with this product. Using IQL is the equivalent of a major airliner operating with the engine of a go-cart. Try finding tech support and all their guys are out to lunch, literally.
Protection of the Players - This is definitely no Australia we're talking about here despite government official's claims that they based their regulation on that of Queensland. Australia's government features a regulatory body that requires its sportsbooks to turn over tapes and other documentation for review when disputes arise.
BetPanAm claims one of its players bonus is being confiscated for his alleged role in a "Danish Syndicate". The player claims he is not part of any syndicate and that BetPanAm lured him back with the promise of a 20 percent bonus after playing there previously at the start of the football season.
The player, who we will call Paul, told his story to Sports911.
"Late November I get an email from PanAm with a special offer inside. The email basically says they enjoyed and miss my action, if I’d consider coming back they’d offer me a 20% promotion to top it of. Sounds good and after a few emails back and forth I take them up on the offer, not solely based on the promises of Soccer, Tennis, and Formula One being added very soon (beginning of the New Year for Soccer) but it certainly had something to do with it as that was the reason I withdrew the last time. This was the bait as it turns out.
"Wagering requirements were set at 5x and as it stands now I’ve done more than 10x, meaning the bonus is not a bonus anymore but cash in my account. On the 2nd of January I proceeded to make a full withdrawal of my money for personal reasons and I shouldn’t have to explain to anyone why I’m asking for my money. However, PanAm kept asking me and in retrospect I should probably just have made something up, but it’s none of their business.
"Instead of getting my money as I’d thought I get jerked around a bit, that was of course annoying and pissed me off as my immediate thought was they didn’t have their Neteller funded as has happened before.
"The very next day I get an email saying my request has been handed over to the Management Department for review. At this point I’m not worried about the money, more annoyed it’s taking so long. Upon requesting an update I get a response saying:
'We are having a number of accounts working together. Such a behavior goes against our bonus policy'
"This is completely untrue, I am NOT working with anyone whatsoever! This is not the first time PanAm has accused me of this. They did it earlier last year during bases too, wasn’t true then and isn’t true now. Their Risk Manager ******* also cleared me at that time. If there was any, and I do mean ANY, shred of truth to it then why would I continue to bet there? And remember, they emailed me begging me to come back.
"Furthermore, PanAm aren’t just withholding the bonus I received this time but also ALL previous bonuses given! A total of 3k, meaning they’re stealing 2k of my latest deposit. If this isn’t outright theft then what it is? This is no different than if I’d been paid in full and then next time I reupped 3k the deposit would never be credited to my account. Again, remember they wanted me to come back."
BetPanAm claims six other people from Paul's home town in Denmark had signed up on the same day and were betting opposite sides.
However, an email sent to Paul by BetPanAm's own Risk Manager seems to vindicate the player.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Walker" <*****@*******.com>
To: <**************.dk>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:46 PM
Subject: FW: Contact Customer Services - Bettor
****,,
Below is the response from our risk manager.
Please contact us if you have any questions.
Bill Walker
From: ******
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:55 PM
To: ****************
Subject: RE: Contact Customer Services - Bettor
Dear *****, I decided to address all this directly...
First, I am the risk manager at BetPanAm. As you know, we are a new company. Though I am not new at all to this business, this company is new and that means that we are trying to walk the fine line in our early days between customer friendly limits and foolish limits that could put the
financial health of this book and your winnings in jeopardy. Having said that, yes, we do post our store limits for reference on our site. But we
also hold the right at any time we want to change those limits for a particular sport, or sport segment or specific game being played. We also reserve the right to limit particular players to lower than store posted
limits as we also have honored requests to raise limits on individual players who have made that request and been approved for those higher limits
by our staff. Now I want to address individual items.
I speak for myself and my whole staff. You are no different than any other player because of one thing and one thing only that every single player at BetPanAm has in common. You bet with cash dollars. Money. You deposit and we allow you to bet on games. Nor anyone else here doesn't care if you are white or black, American or Latin or European or Asian, Jewish, Christian,
agnostic, atheist or occultist. Your money is all the same and it gets converted into US dollars. So, please, do not read into anything sent by
anyone on this staff that we may have an attitude about you that makes you
any different from any other player here... Your money is the same.
Limits to individual bettors may be restricted by me, the risk manager, if I determine from my own review of data that its possible that certain players are trying to get more on a game than the limits I have for that game by teaming up and betting us two, three even four or five accounts at a time. I can't see you coming, but I can see when suddenly my risk on a game jumps. Now let me ask you this... If I have a hockey game (a favorite betting product of many of our Euro customers) and that hockey game suddenly gets three limit plays from three different accounts all from Denmark and all
within 23 seconds, then I have only two possible conclusions to draw. One is that they all belong to a tout service or are part of an information
network that puts out a play on a game... and I have no problem with that, but what you must understand is that if I get three limit plays at once and they total 80% of all the action I get on that game because we are new and relatively unknown, then all I am doing is gambling just like you. The difference is that I am gambling with the owners investment money. Instead
I prefer to risk manage. And that means I get a limit bet and I move my line so that the next guy pays more or I get a bet on the other side. By
risk managing, I can ensure we are here tomorrow. That's good for you, good
for the owner, good for me and my job security and good for all...
It appeared to me a few months ago that you and at least one other customer were doing this. And that was at a time when I was getting little action to write back on, therefore I put an overall limit of $500 on your account per bet. Is that the case now? No, I have taken that restriction off and one big reason why is because we are getting some decent action and some two way
action on hockey.
If you have the understanding that we are new and trying to run this company like a real book is supposed to be run and get a little two way action and balance, and then through your patience and play, you find we raise our
limits as time moves on, then you will also participate in getting the reduced juice we are offering on Hockey and all the other sports. Besides Pinnacle, you cannot lay 107 on Hockey puck lines nor money lines anywhere
else in the world that I am aware of. You cannot get -108 on Hockey totals anywhere else either... If so, let me know so I can open an account. I also know that at Pinnacle... accounts that come in simultaneously on off betting products like Hockey are limited or even told not to bet there, it has happened to friends of mine.
****... I appreciate your biz. But I also want you to know that no one here meant any offense to you so don't read anything like that in any of our e-mails... I also believe that if you have some patience and let us grow our legs more, you will find that we are aggressively raising our limits to all (as long as we are not ganged up on) and that we will reduce juice even further.
E-mail me anytime and as long as you remain professional and constructive, I'll do all I can to satisfy you as my customer...
******** in Risk Management
While we can argue this basically comes down to BetPanAm's word against the player (if we are to assume these emails have no bearing, which they obviously do), the original foundation for wagering shops to set up in Panama had its roots in player mediation, something that does not even appear remotely present in this situation.
In an interview with Herbert Young Rodriguez, Panama's Director of the Gaming Board, Sports911 was told that all sportsbook websites must carry a link enabling customers to file grievances with the Panamanian government in the event of disputes.
"Every operator must provide a link on their website to the government contact in the event of player disputes," Rodriguez stated, emphatically. "Operators must have two accounts. I can only authorize payment. In other words we can obligate an operator to pay directly in situations of disputes but of course there must be an investigation first."
Obviously, Rodriguez has dropped the ball on this one as neither BetPanAm nor Legendz websites contain any type of link directing players to the Panama Gaming Commission for arbitration. BetPanAm's website only instructs customers that they have this option in case of disputes but fails to provide a link.
For all we know, Paul can be the Thief of Baghdad and BetPanAm is 100 percent right in its stance but this still does not help explain the Panamanian government's ineptness and misrepresentations.
"Every operator must provide a link on their website to the government contact in the event of player disputes."
Wake up Mr. Rodriguez!
Panama is supposed to be the superior new online gaming jurisdiction and a leader, yet they are doing absolute nothing to prove their worth. At this juncture in time, even the bozos who run the Antiguan Online Gaming Commission appear more competent.
Let's just hope that the powers that be in this Central American nation are more upfront with us this time around when we arrive in Panama City next week for the big Super Bowl Party.
kongen story on 1/20 8:28 Est
http://therxforum.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=100090022&f=988094022&m=133102201&p=1
SHRINK post 1/23 9:20 Am
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by THE SHRINK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Betpanam:
Okay guys,
We don't have any new customers coming in right now.
_ DO YOU REALLY EXPECT US TO BELIEVE THAT? HOW IS THIS RELEVEANT TO PEOPLE THAT ARE OWED MONEY???_
We have a bunch going out though.
_PLEASE DEFINE A BUNCH..._
I will be in the office this afternoon if any one needs me. Everything will be okay.
_ EVERYTHING IS NOT OK!!!_
we have some investors going at it right now.
_ WTF? ARE THEY HAVING SEX OR FIGHTING???!!!_
Who obviously dont understand the downside of their actions.
_ AND YOU TELL US NOT TO WORRY???!!!_
It will work out.
_ IF THE INVESTORS CAN'T WORK THIS OUT, THEN WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE IT WILL? _
I have also met with them. And they are working on getting the money in.
_ PLEASE ELABORATE. HOW DOES ONE WORK TO GET THE MONEY IN? USUALLY, WHEN I NEED MONEY, I WRITE A CHECK FOR IT AND VIOLA, IT'S CASHED! WHY ISN'T THAT HAPPENING NOW,SINCE YOU CLAIM THE MONEY IS THERE????!!!!_
If you need anyone you can contact me, Bill or Marty at our offices.
_ GOOD TO KNOW YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT THE DUNES DID BEFORE THEY STIFFED EVERYONE.
IN FACT, THEIR MAIN REASON FOR SLOW PAYING INITALLY WAS THAT THEIR INVESTORS WERE FIGHTING!_
People are still getting paid out.
_ HOW MANY PEOPLE AND HOW MUCH? _
But with this landslide of request it will take a few days to straighten it out.
_ CAN YOU IMAGINE GOING TO YOUR BANK ON A FRIDAY, STANDING IN LINE FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES, AND HEARING THIS LAME EXCUSE??!! _
No need to point the finger at others. I just found out myself Monday morning so I know the RX,Major,Krackman or anyone else couldnt have known because I didnt know either. I have been in contact with everyone. And they will all get paid.
_ WHEN????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_
Discussed the situation with the Shrink last night. It will be okay. Give it a few days.
_ SO STALLING IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE US FEEL REASSURED THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE OK AFTER THE WEEKEND????_
I will be back and forth answering questions on the forums.
_ YOUR STATEMENT IS HOLLOW. IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMERS, PLEASE START ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ASKED IN THIS POST PLEASE...._
Also the moderators have been helping getting people in contact with us. I know its a bad situation but it will all work out..
Scotty<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
_ BAD SITUATION? HOW BAD?
HOW WILL IT WORK OUT?
WILL WE EVER RECEIVE DIRECT ANSWERS RATHER THAN YOU COMING HERE TO PACIFY US NOW AND SAY THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE OK WHEN IT IS NOT???!!!_
_IF IT APPEARS I AM ANGRY, IT IS BECAUSE I TOOK YOUR WORD TO BE GOLD, WHEN I VISITED YOU MONTHS AGO WITH KRACKMAN.
I DID WRITE AN ARTICLE THAT CAME DIRECTLY FROM MY HEART, JUST LIKE THIS POST DOES NOW.
I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WOULD REPRESENT EVERYTHING GOOD THAT COULD HAPPEN IN THIS INDUSTRY, WHEN IN REALITY, IF YOU GO UNDER, THIS WILL GO DOWN AS THE SECOND BIGGEST FAILURE IN OFFSHORE SPORTS BETTING, SECOND ONLY TO THE COLLAPSE OF ACES GOLD/SPORTSMARKET!!!_
THE SHRINK<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am assuming Bill meant Sting? Not that it makes Sting at fault either, but just to clear this comment up.
