You know you don't know, yet you claim you DO know. Which is it? You just keep looking worse and worse the more you try and explain your position. You're not critisizing the pick, but you are. You know who the "square" pick is, yet you say you don't.
No reason to even continue this. All you have is total contradictions and attempted insults of me saying that I listen to guys who call in to local talk shows or something. You're really grasping at straws now, and you have no idea who I listen to come draft time and you have no basis for your little insults.
Hell, you're not even taking any postitions, again all you are doing is critisizing years after the fact. Let's take this year, you say Brady Quinn is the "square" pick, but if he works out then I won't hear a thing from you, but if he doesn't I'm sure you'll be around a few years from now to remind us all what a "square" pick he was, meanwhile admiting that you don't even know how the teams, scouts, and experts have him rated!
No reason to even continue this. All you have is total contradictions and attempted insults of me saying that I listen to guys who call in to local talk shows or something. You're really grasping at straws now, and you have no idea who I listen to come draft time and you have no basis for your little insults.
Hell, you're not even taking any postitions, again all you are doing is critisizing years after the fact. Let's take this year, you say Brady Quinn is the "square" pick, but if he works out then I won't hear a thing from you, but if he doesn't I'm sure you'll be around a few years from now to remind us all what a "square" pick he was, meanwhile admiting that you don't even know how the teams, scouts, and experts have him rated!
If Quinn is the "square pick", then the raiders should trade that pick for more picks, right? I'm sure other teams would love to move up and take him. Last time I checked, Quinn had 35 TD's, 5 INT's, and NO fumbles. I believe those are better than Russell.
eason: 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 <table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="stathead" bgcolor="#000000"><td colspan="18">2006 Regular Season Game Log</td></tr> <tr class="colhead" align="center"><td colspan="3"> </td><td colspan="10">-- PASSING --</td><td colspan="5">-- RUSHING --</td></tr><tr class="colhead" align="right"> <td align="left">DATE</td> <td align="left">OPP</td> <td align="left">RESULT</td> <td> CMP</td> <td>ATT</td> <td>YDS</td> <td>CMP%</td> <td>YPA</td> <td>LNG</td> <td>TD</td> <td>INT</td> <td>SACK</td> <td>RAT</td> <td>ATT</td> <td>YDS</td> <td>AVG</td> <td>LNG</td> <td>TD</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/2</td> <td align="left">@Georgia Tech</td> <td align="left"> W 14-10 </td><td>23</td> <td>38</td> <td>246</td> <td>60.5</td> <td>6.47</td> <td>44</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>79.5</td> <td>7</td> <td>9</td> <td>1.3</td> <td>16</td> <td>1</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/9</td> <td align="left">Penn State</td> <td align="left"> W 41-17 </td><td>25</td> <td>36</td> <td>287</td> <td>69.4</td> <td>7.97</td> <td>32</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>120.9</td> <td>8</td> <td>6</td> <td>0.8</td> <td>11</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/16</td> <td align="left">Michigan</td> <td align="left"> L 47-21 </td><td>24</td> <td>48</td> <td>234</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.88</td> <td>33</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>58.9</td> <td>4</td> <td>-18</td> <td>-4.5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/23</td> <td align="left">@Michigan State</td> <td align="left"> W 40-37 </td><td>20</td> <td>36</td> <td>319</td> <td>55.6</td> <td>8.86</td> <td>62</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>113.3</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/30</td> <td align="left">Purdue</td> <td align="left"> W 35-21 </td><td>29</td> <td>38</td> <td>316</td> <td>76.3</td> <td>8.32</td> <td>25</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>117.9</td> <td>6</td> <td>-29</td> <td>-4.8</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/7</td> <td align="left">Stanford</td> <td align="left"> W 31-10 </td><td>27</td> <td>37</td> <td>232</td> <td>73.0</td> <td>6.27</td> <td>25</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>116.0</td> <td>4</td> <td>9</td> <td>2.3</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/21</td> <td align="left">UCLA</td> <td align="left"> W 20-17 </td><td>27</td> <td>45</td> <td>304</td> <td>60.0</td> <td>6.76</td> <td>45</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>95.0</td> <td>14</td> <td>-12</td> <td>-0.9</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/28</td> <td align="left">@Navy</td> <td align="left"> W 38-14 </td><td>18</td> <td>25</td> <td>295</td> <td>72.0</td> <td>11.80</td> <td>36</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>150.8</td> <td>4</td> <td>28</td> <td>7.0</td> <td>19</td> <td>1</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/4</td> <td align="left">North Carolina</td> <td align="left"> W 45-26 </td><td>23</td> <td>35</td> <td>346</td> <td>65.7</td> <td>9.89</td> <td>46</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>136.1</td> <td>6</td> <td>-30</td> <td>-5.0</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/11</td> <td align="left">@Air Force</td> <td align="left"> W 39-17 </td><td>14</td> <td>19</td> <td>207</td> <td>73.7</td> <td>10.90</td> <td>51</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>148.5</td> <td>4</td> <td>-4</td> <td>-1.0</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/18</td> <td align="left">Army</td> <td align="left"> W 41-9 </td><td>22</td> <td>30</td> <td>218</td> <td>73.3</td> <td>7.27</td> <td>24</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>112.9</td> <td>5</td> <td>32</td> <td>6.4</td> <td>14</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/25</td> <td align="left">@USC</td> <td align="left"> L 44-24 </td><td>22</td> <td>45</td> <td>274</td> <td>48.9</td> <td>6.09</td> <td>42</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>90.4</td> <td>11</td> <td>74</td> <td>6.7</td> <td>60</td> <td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>
eason: 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 <table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="stathead" bgcolor="#000000"><td colspan="18">2006 Regular Season Game Log</td></tr> <tr class="colhead" align="center"><td colspan="3"> </td><td colspan="10">-- PASSING --</td><td colspan="5">-- RUSHING --</td></tr><tr class="colhead" align="right"> <td align="left">DATE</td> <td align="left">OPP</td> <td align="left">RESULT</td> <td> CMP</td> <td>ATT</td> <td>YDS</td> <td>CMP%</td> <td>YPA</td> <td>LNG</td> <td>TD</td> <td>INT</td> <td>SACK</td> <td>RAT</td> <td>ATT</td> <td>YDS</td> <td>AVG</td> <td>LNG</td> <td>TD</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/2</td> <td align="left">@Georgia Tech</td> <td align="left"> W 14-10 </td><td>23</td> <td>38</td> <td>246</td> <td>60.5</td> <td>6.47</td> <td>44</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>79.5</td> <td>7</td> <td>9</td> <td>1.3</td> <td>16</td> <td>1</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/9</td> <td align="left">Penn State</td> <td align="left"> W 41-17 </td><td>25</td> <td>36</td> <td>287</td> <td>69.4</td> <td>7.97</td> <td>32</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>120.9</td> <td>8</td> <td>6</td> <td>0.8</td> <td>11</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/16</td> <td align="left">Michigan</td> <td align="left"> L 47-21 </td><td>24</td> <td>48</td> <td>234</td> <td>50.0</td> <td>4.88</td> <td>33</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>58.9</td> <td>4</td> <td>-18</td> <td>-4.5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/23</td> <td align="left">@Michigan State</td> <td align="left"> W 40-37 </td><td>20</td> <td>36</td> <td>319</td> <td>55.6</td> <td>8.86</td> <td>62</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>113.3</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>0.0</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">9/30</td> <td align="left">Purdue</td> <td align="left"> W 35-21 </td><td>29</td> <td>38</td> <td>316</td> <td>76.3</td> <td>8.32</td> <td>25</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>117.9</td> <td>6</td> <td>-29</td> <td>-4.8</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/7</td> <td align="left">Stanford</td> <td align="left"> W 31-10 </td><td>27</td> <td>37</td> <td>232</td> <td>73.0</td> <td>6.27</td> <td>25</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>116.0</td> <td>4</td> <td>9</td> <td>2.3</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/21</td> <td align="left">UCLA</td> <td align="left"> W 20-17 </td><td>27</td> <td>45</td> <td>304</td> <td>60.0</td> <td>6.76</td> <td>45</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>95.0</td> <td>14</td> <td>-12</td> <td>-0.9</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">10/28</td> <td align="left">@Navy</td> <td align="left"> W 38-14 </td><td>18</td> <td>25</td> <td>295</td> <td>72.0</td> <td>11.80</td> <td>36</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>150.8</td> <td>4</td> <td>28</td> <td>7.0</td> <td>19</td> <td>1</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/4</td> <td align="left">North Carolina</td> <td align="left"> W 45-26 </td><td>23</td> <td>35</td> <td>346</td> <td>65.7</td> <td>9.89</td> <td>46</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>136.1</td> <td>6</td> <td>-30</td> <td>-5.0</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/11</td> <td align="left">@Air Force</td> <td align="left"> W 39-17 </td><td>14</td> <td>19</td> <td>207</td> <td>73.7</td> <td>10.90</td> <td>51</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>148.5</td> <td>4</td> <td>-4</td> <td>-1.0</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="oddrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/18</td> <td align="left">Army</td> <td align="left"> W 41-9 </td><td>22</td> <td>30</td> <td>218</td> <td>73.3</td> <td>7.27</td> <td>24</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>112.9</td> <td>5</td> <td>32</td> <td>6.4</td> <td>14</td> <td>0</td> </tr> <tr class="evenrow" align="right"> <td align="left">11/25</td> <td align="left">@USC</td> <td align="left"> L 44-24 </td><td>22</td> <td>45</td> <td>274</td> <td>48.9</td> <td>6.09</td> <td>42</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>90.4</td> <td>11</td> <td>74</td> <td>6.7</td> <td>60</td> <td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>
cincy_ said:
Well let me ask you this (again) then, wasn't Reggie Bush the "square" pick? According to what you've already said, he can't possibly be the right pick because he was the "public" selection right? Don't you realize how stupid this sounds? But now you say "wait and we'll see".
You are contradicing yourself. Just because a guy is a "public" consensus DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE ALSO BY DEFAULT HAS TO BE A "SQUARE" PICK!!!
Just like if you have an NFL side that all the "squares" are on, if the sharps are on that side as well then isn;t that side the "sharp" side??
So just to loop around back to the beginning...You rag on the Gallery pick and talk about how "square' it was, meanwhile had the Texans made the "square' pick in the last draft they'd have been much better off. So in the end you really have no idea if the "square" pick is the right one or not, but that doesn't stop you from chiming in 2 years later with your critisism. Just like I've said all along, all you are dong is critising from the comfort of years later and when I called you on it you are trying to use this "square" label as some sort of justification and then you have to admit that you don't really know what the "experts" thought and you don't know that the "square" pick isn't in fact the correct one! I rest my case!
people don't realize how amazing it is that Quinn hasn't fumbled all year. And he's quite a bit faster than people give him credit for as well.
THAT being said, from some of the conversations I've had in the past few weeks, wouldn't be surprised if Brady pulled an Eli Manning and basically states that he doesn't want to be a Raider.
THAT being said, from some of the conversations I've had in the past few weeks, wouldn't be surprised if Brady pulled an Eli Manning and basically states that he doesn't want to be a Raider.
Omni said:
Why debate this is you can't name the experts?
I ask you a question 8 times and you refuse to answer, yet you want to keep debating this?
Are your experts the callers on your local radio show?
Bill from Southie ...
Willy from the car ...
Pete from Marshtown ...
Yeah, those are your SQUARE EXPERTS. Did one of the say they had a cousin that was a scout or heard the rumor from a sister who works out at Bally's with a scout's cousin?
WHO ARE YOUR EXPERTS????
Now let me answer your question, Einstein ... then you can tel someone else you heard it from an "expert" too.
In drafting a player, and giving a player a pro contract worth $50 million there are many things to worry about.
1. Upside - will he get better? How much better will he get?
2. Durability - will he be able to withstand the punishment? Can he do what he does?
3. Fit - Does the player do what we need him to do? Can he play 65 plays? Does he get along with people? Is he a product of the system?
4. Smarts - Does the guy get it? Will he do as told, can he adjust on the fly?
5. Practice - does he practice hard? will he lead the team by example?
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
6. MOTIVATION - Will he become a fat cat once he gets the cash? Will he become the next Vin Baker and not even try?
... maybe you should ask your experts on the local talk show how much they know about Brady Quinn's and Gallery's and Calvin Johnson's make-up, competiveness and committment ... but they won't know, and neither will you and neither will I ... and THAT IS WHY I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ON SOMETHING I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
... and for the last fucking time:
WHO ARE YOUR EXPERTS?????
There's no need to continue. You are already wrong according to your own words. You already admitted you have no idea about any picks whatsoever so there's really no need to continue. You critisized after that fact and acted like a know it all and I called you on it, and you had to admit you really had no idea. That was the whole point of the debate, and I've already shown this over and over again now, not to mention the other stupid shit you've said about how the "public" pick (as you percieve it) can't be the correct one, you had to backtrack on that stupid shit too.
Just keep going with your infintile insults about my listening to whoever, that's all the attacking you've been doing for some time now without listening to anything anyways. Why should I even answer ignorant insults like that?
Just keep going with your infintile insults about my listening to whoever, that's all the attacking you've been doing for some time now without listening to anything anyways. Why should I even answer ignorant insults like that?
cincy_ said:
EXACTLY!!!
Oh except Gallery I guess. You did have an opinion, and that's where this all started!! He was the "square" pick, and you knew all along and now 2 years later you'll tell everyone how WRONG the Raiders were to draft him and that YOU KNEW he was the square pick!
AGAIN, YOU SAY YOU KNEW, THEN YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW!!! THIS IS WHAT THE DEBATE WAS ABOUT!!! You critisize after the fact, and now you admit you didn't know and claim that you don't critisize.
It's over, you say one thng and then another and try to act like a know it all after the fact. It's all in this thread in your own damn words.
Omni said:
Who are you experts, Einstein? Who are the scouts?
You got your "inside information" on the talk shows. Admit it. You can't remember the caller's name, can you?
I knew you were full of shit when you started saying EVERYONE.
Now do you see why the Raiders can't draft and they picked Gallery? They have he same EXPERTS you have - Jimmy from the car.
I never said I had "inside information", did I? Yet you have that in quotes? Try paying attention and quoting me on something I actually said.
Cincy debate tactics: Put words in people's mouths, Doubletalk, contradict, change the focus of the debate, ignore opposing points, insults, etc...
The entire point of this has nothing to do with who I payed attention to 2 years ago, even if I did take the time to give a list all you have to do is stamp them all "non experts" with you wide stamp of thnking that everyone's an idiot except the people who draft for the New England Patriots or something. And in the overall debate, it's irrelavent anyways. It's about you and what you said, it has been from the beginning. Common debate tactic though, switching the focus. I've seen it many times before. Now you'll act as though you've won something if you can just call everyone I listened to a non-expert (not a hard thing to do). The real debate ended a long time ago, your owns words proved you wrong.
The debate was about you calling Gallery a square pick 2 years after the fact, and you have admited IN YOUR OWN WORDS that you don't know if he really was the "square" pick or not, and then on top of that said that "public" picks were wrong and then had to backtrack from that when you were faced with how stupid it sounded. It's over. You're done, you've been exposed as another after the fact genius who wants to sit on his ass and call out every bad pick years after the fact and act like you're smart just because you say you only agree with the "good" teams draft picks and pickers and don't agree with the "bad" teams and their drafts (again after the fact). Of course good and bad teams and good and bad drafts come and go with luck and the personel involved, so just saying that you agree with the good teams and that the good teams draft well and don;t agree with the bad team is just another cop-out, another free ride on the I'm always right train.
Cincy debate tactics: Put words in people's mouths, Doubletalk, contradict, change the focus of the debate, ignore opposing points, insults, etc...
The entire point of this has nothing to do with who I payed attention to 2 years ago, even if I did take the time to give a list all you have to do is stamp them all "non experts" with you wide stamp of thnking that everyone's an idiot except the people who draft for the New England Patriots or something. And in the overall debate, it's irrelavent anyways. It's about you and what you said, it has been from the beginning. Common debate tactic though, switching the focus. I've seen it many times before. Now you'll act as though you've won something if you can just call everyone I listened to a non-expert (not a hard thing to do). The real debate ended a long time ago, your owns words proved you wrong.
The debate was about you calling Gallery a square pick 2 years after the fact, and you have admited IN YOUR OWN WORDS that you don't know if he really was the "square" pick or not, and then on top of that said that "public" picks were wrong and then had to backtrack from that when you were faced with how stupid it sounded. It's over. You're done, you've been exposed as another after the fact genius who wants to sit on his ass and call out every bad pick years after the fact and act like you're smart just because you say you only agree with the "good" teams draft picks and pickers and don't agree with the "bad" teams and their drafts (again after the fact). Of course good and bad teams and good and bad drafts come and go with luck and the personel involved, so just saying that you agree with the good teams and that the good teams draft well and don;t agree with the bad team is just another cop-out, another free ride on the I'm always right train.
Oh ... now you don't have experts? All those experts - EVERYBODY, you said - and you can't name one person. From the first post, I have been asking who EVERYONE was. Now I know.
It is the Raiders Director of Scouting - Jimmy from the car
That ends it then.
The consensus is Indy and the Eagles this week ... chosen by EVERYONE. Put the house on it. If EVERYONE says it, how can they be wrong?
It is the Raiders Director of Scouting - Jimmy from the car
That ends it then.
The consensus is Indy and the Eagles this week ... chosen by EVERYONE. Put the house on it. If EVERYONE says it, how can they be wrong?
I didn't say that I didn't have experts I listened to either, just like I never said I had "inside info". You really need a lesson in listening. This thread is full of your own assumptions and you repeatedly putting words in my mouth.
OK, for example, let's just say that when I said everybody, you were right and I meant Bob from LA on the talk show and Mel Kiper's column "Why Gallery is a can't miss pick for the Raiders"
OK, let's assume that (although it's not actually true). You celebrate, do your little dance, whatever. What are we now left with? THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THE DEBATE STILL, which is that you called Gallery a "square" pick, and I called you on it and then you had to admit that you didn't really know if he was or not, and then you said that "public" picks were wrong, and then you had to backtrack that horrible statement as well!!!
You see now why it doesn't matter how qualified you think the people I listened to 2 years ago is?
To use your example as a point, If the public consesus is on Indy and the Eagles, but all the NFL sharps that I know are ALSO all those 2 sides are they still the square sides??? I know the answer, but I'd love to hear your answer.
OK, for example, let's just say that when I said everybody, you were right and I meant Bob from LA on the talk show and Mel Kiper's column "Why Gallery is a can't miss pick for the Raiders"
OK, let's assume that (although it's not actually true). You celebrate, do your little dance, whatever. What are we now left with? THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THE DEBATE STILL, which is that you called Gallery a "square" pick, and I called you on it and then you had to admit that you didn't really know if he was or not, and then you said that "public" picks were wrong, and then you had to backtrack that horrible statement as well!!!
You see now why it doesn't matter how qualified you think the people I listened to 2 years ago is?
To use your example as a point, If the public consesus is on Indy and the Eagles, but all the NFL sharps that I know are ALSO all those 2 sides are they still the square sides??? I know the answer, but I'd love to hear your answer.
I also have to love how you think you're making some great point by just saying that basically nobody is an "expert". So short of saying that I had lunch with every pro scout and and they told me how they had ranked their draft board, you'll just say that they are not an "expert" according to you.
Guess what? Just because someone is in radio, print, or TV doesn't automatically mean that they don't know what they are talking about.
Your opinion doesn't rule the world Cincy. Just because you don't consider anyone in the world an expert doesn't make it true!
And you still act like the draft was run by the fucking CIA or something. Word leaks out ALL THE TIME about what teams and scouts think of players, they talk at length about it every good damn draft!!! As much as you want to act like that doesn't happen, it does. These aren't national secrets here, and every year we have a least a basic idea about the top several players (of which Gallery was one 2 years ago), and several time we even know who is taking who and where in the top parts of the draft!!
Guess what? Just because someone is in radio, print, or TV doesn't automatically mean that they don't know what they are talking about.
Your opinion doesn't rule the world Cincy. Just because you don't consider anyone in the world an expert doesn't make it true!
And you still act like the draft was run by the fucking CIA or something. Word leaks out ALL THE TIME about what teams and scouts think of players, they talk at length about it every good damn draft!!! As much as you want to act like that doesn't happen, it does. These aren't national secrets here, and every year we have a least a basic idea about the top several players (of which Gallery was one 2 years ago), and several time we even know who is taking who and where in the top parts of the draft!!
AND SINCE WHEN IS PICKING DRAFT PICKS ANYTHING LIKE PICKING SIDES IN A FOOTBALL GAME ANYWAYS!!!! There are REASONS why some sides are "square' sides in football, it's not just who is on what.
In the draft, a player is either a good pick or he's not, which is just the point I am making. So what if he impresses the public, it doesn't mean that he is a "square" pick, the two ideas are nowhere near interchangable!
In the draft, a player is either a good pick or he's not, which is just the point I am making. So what if he impresses the public, it doesn't mean that he is a "square" pick, the two ideas are nowhere near interchangable!
