Question for ALL books - What is your take on the "Unlawful Gambling Funding .. blah, blah .. Bill"?

lander · Jun 17, 2003

Questions.

1. Will you still cater to Americans?
2. Is it your understanding that WU is or isn't excempt (not written) from this bill.
3. Have you heard of any LARGE lobbyists that might help <stiffle> this prohibition cause?
4. If CR bends over for the US, where will you go?
5. Do you have any insight into whether this will be passed in the Senate?
6. Are there "loophole" payments options <in the works>?

Thanks. I look forward to your replies.

IntuitionBET · Jun 17, 2003

Good questions Lander

oldmantime · Jun 17, 2003

Very Good Questions:

# of book responses:

Over2 = -1.80
Under2= -1.60

lander · Jun 18, 2003

C'mmon books, I know for a FACT that the following books contribute here :

BHB
BlueGrass
GamblersAve
Olympic (Chris)
Sirbet
WagerStreet (Bob)
Rio
Gameday
Cascade

I'd love to here any/all of your takes regarding this <important> issue.

Thanks.

WildBill · Jun 19, 2003

Lander,

Bottom line is the books aren't going to kick out or shut out their business. Whether they think they are on the right side of the legal issues or not they still have to do business. I am not working for a book, but have done quite a bit of consulting type work for two of them and my guesses to their answers (they don't post here):

1. Of course, one's last count was 93% American based, 5% Canadian, 2% Other. Do the math of what they would have without American based players.
2. WU transacts in financial instruments, but is not a financial institution with a charter or license as such, so this will depend on what the final law is. Still its quite clear to most legal experts that there is no crime if its agent to agent transaction, one where the book and the player are not interacting directly or through WU. If the player transfers to an agent, who then transfers to the book, then the jurisdiction and criminal chain of command are broken and its very difficult for a US court to get a convinction on that unless the judge bends over backward to help out, a la Jay Cohen.
3. There are plenty out there, but they aren't the wisest people on the block. Most understand little about the industry and the best lobbyists aren't involved because the costs and conflicts of interest are prohibitive. Trust me, there are plenty working on this, but in most cases its falling on a lot of deaf ears inside the Beltway.
4. I leave that to whoever to answer, but its highly unlikely the US is going to get anyone to bend over backwards when its an activity that causes almost no bad side effects in the host country and brings in a lot of hard currency.
5. First off its not if its passed in the Senate that you should ask, but what exactly would pass if it does pass. There is a growing chance, sources say, that an Oxley like bill might pass. This is significant because the Oxley bill is a neutered version and will do little but make a statement. Its hard to say what will happen in the Senate because the leaders there for the most part think they have better things to do than this bill and even better a lot of them are wise enough to realize that its pointless to think you can stop the industry. Problem is that the Senate has even more horse trading than the House, partly the reason why it was a surprise to many close to the action that the bill came out and passed so quickly after seemingly stuck in the muck. The Senate, where every vote is much more valuable due to smaller numbers, has an endemic problem of "owed" votes where one guy calls in his points with another guy when he feels its needed. So predicting it is hard to do, but for now there is little momentum to get it done.
6. That one is to be decided. Its like anything else, there isn't a big enough market for alternate payments beyond what is there now, but that is always subject to change due to events. Put simply if there is a demand for it someone will fill it.

greg · Jun 20, 2003

thanks for your input on this wb.

HollywoodSportsbook · Jun 20, 2003

Lander and fellow posters:

It seems to us this is a topic that pertains to all of us related to this industry. We'd like to post our opinion on these important issues. Although I must say WildBill has pretty much answered all questions in a very knowledgeable and insightful way, we would like you guys to know we share the same concerns. Therefore we will try to answer these questions in brief and expeditious manner, but please remember we will need to mantain our discrete approach.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>1. Will you still cater to Americans? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will suffice to say the largest percentage of our operation is designed to cater to the American player. The bookmaking model we find in this part of the world is not only designed to satisfy an American need, it has been created based solely upon those needs. What we understand as a book today, is the direct product of the demand of an AMERICAN market.

Our answer to this question might not be as straight forward as many posters would like it to be. But we're asking you guys to understand there are reasons-implicit to the nature of this industry- that keep us from being more upfront. We all know the post-up section of the major books will be the most affected part, if this bill is passed.

We would also like to add that America is a large market for wagering, that is entirely true; but there are other markets where Betting is not only perfectly legal, but also seen as an everyday activity. We're talking about the Asian and the European markets; cultural- and demographically speaking these markets offer VALUE. I personally believe it is time for the American bookies to diversify their offer towards these markets. However, this will imply an evolution in the way we conduct business, but then again we will have the tools.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>2. Is it your understanding that WU is or isn't exempt (not written) from this bill. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WildBill has once again used the right words to answer this question. This whole ordeal might soon become a game of hypocrisy, where the governments that shelter bookmaking operations will show Uncle Sam one apparent way to “solve” these situations and on the other hand they will be creating all the necessary conditions for the industry to flourish. Will the US government be willing to play games time after time, spending funds in a unilateral war? Will they ask all their judges in every courtroom of America to “bend over backwards to help out, a la Jay Cohen”?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>3. Have you heard of any LARGE lobbyists that might help <stiffle> this prohibition cause? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No we haven’t, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>4. If CR bends over for the US, where will you go? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you stated well in your question, this is an “if” situation. We’re business men, our language is the money. And that’s a universal language. If any given day C.R. ceases to be a friendly environment, we will be in motion. Right as in now, every big book should be looking for alternatives. When you establish a business in any location, you must know before hand how to STOP doing business there, as well. But you guys can rest assured we’re professionals, as well as many other big solid shops down here. A contingency plan is a MUST for any form of capitalist business.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>5. Do you have any insight into whether this will be passed in the Senate? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No we don’t. We learned from WildBill's answer as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> 6. Are there "loophole" payments options <in the works>? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you call “loophole” is what some people understand as OPPORTUNITY. Capitalist progression is mainly based on spotting those opportunities and having the vision to carry on with them until they become a form of business per se. That’s the beauty of the “lassie-faire” principle. We have seen these “loopholes” become huge sources of revenue throughout the history of mercantilism. We’re now living through times of change again.

In closing, it is a definite shame America has fought against terrible forms of attacks from foreign origins, but yet fails to fight the hypocrisy that comes from within. Why would a government fight the peoples’ will? If you are free to work hard for profit in any form that you see fit, if you are to pay taxes on the revenue your work originates; you should also be free to spend your money in whichever way you feel like.

Good luck tonite, gentlemen.

Will
Hollywood International

sportysteve · Jun 20, 2003

I like that closing statement will, very well said. Right on the money i might even sign up with you guys for that.

lander · Jun 20, 2003

Great response Wil.

Thank you!

IntuitionBET · Jun 21, 2003

I'd like to see more Sportsbooks CHIME IN here and respond to Lander's very good questions.

So far only Wil at Hollywood Sportsbook has stepped up to the plate.

Maybe you just agree with Wil and WildBill...? Let us know...