Pro-style and Spread O

[RunLeeRun]

I little off-season chatter.....Offensive philosophy has been at the forefront of my thoughts as of late. Pro-style and spread are still very vague description. There are many variables of each. These thoughts, by Joel Klatt (former QB at Colorado), I thought were as good an explanation on what it is and why its ran at certain places.

"What (a pro-style offense) essentially is is an offense that is designed to be as variant as possible in order to exploit the weaknesses in defensive structure. That variance can happen when you’re teaching it based on your structure, so you’re going to have personnel groups and formations and concepts and mold them together to create what looks like thousands and thousands of variations, but also keep it simple for your own players. And then you’ve also got the ability to adjust in-game, you’ve got the ability to have the quarterback change the play, so that system is absolutely more variant.

What the high-tempo offense is, it’s using tempo to create vanilla looks on defense and essentially…it’s the baseball version of analytics. They’re saying that over time if we snap the football over and over and over again, put our athletes in space versus your athletes, we’re going to win. So we’re not going to change the play, we’re not going to worry ourselves with those types of different things and worry about teaching as much as we are going to worry about executing the eight, nine, 10 things that we do at a fast pace.

If you’re a program that wants to run the pro-style system – an Alabama, a Michigan, a Stanford, these kinds of programs – to me you’re taking into account that you have a higher ceiling than other programs. I think that the NFL system, the pro-style, has a higher ceiling than the high-tempo offense, but, based on the fact that you’re so committed to being able to be variant, you also have a lower floor because if you don’t have the quarterback, then the system falls on its face. It’s a high-risk, high-reward type of gamble, so if you are an A-list program and can get that player, go ahead and do it. USC, Alabama, Michigan, Stanford, that’s going to work out.

If you’re a program that can’t, every year, say: “We’re going to have a guy that can do that, I know it. I’m going to recruit him, he’s going to come here because we can get him. He’s going to be a 4-star, 5-star kid…we’re going to get one of the best pocket quarterbacks in the country every year.” If you’re not a program like that, like Oregon, Baylor, what do you have to do? You have to take the ceiling down a little bit. You raise your floor by saying our system is going to be the same all the time because we can go out and recruit a kid that’s athletic enough to run our system. Those kids are littering the country because at the lowest levels of football what are they doing? The best athlete on the team is no longer the running back. The best athlete on the team is the quarterback now…We’ve got all sorts of high school quarterbacks now who understand how to run around."

 

[RunLeeRun]

Link

 

[Conan]

I little off-season chatter.....Offensive philosophy has been at the forefront of my thoughts as of late. Pro-style and spread are still very vague description. There are many variables of each. These thoughts, by Joel Klatt (former QB at Colorado), I thought were as good an explanation on what it is and why its ran at certain places.

"What (a pro-style offense) essentially is is an offense that is designed to be as variant as possible in order to exploit the weaknesses in defensive structure. That variance can happen when you’re teaching it based on your structure, so you’re going to have personnel groups and formations and concepts and mold them together to create what looks like thousands and thousands of variations, but also keep it simple for your own players. And then you’ve also got the ability to adjust in-game, you’ve got the ability to have the quarterback change the play, so that system is absolutely more variant.

What the high-tempo offense is, it’s using tempo to create vanilla looks on defense and essentially…it’s the baseball version of analytics. They’re saying that over time if we snap the football over and over and over again, put our athletes in space versus your athletes, we’re going to win. So we’re not going to change the play, we’re not going to worry ourselves with those types of different things and worry about teaching as much as we are going to worry about executing the eight, nine, 10 things that we do at a fast pace.

If you’re a program that wants to run the pro-style system – an Alabama, a Michigan, a Stanford, these kinds of programs – to me you’re taking into account that you have a higher ceiling than other programs. I think that the NFL system, the pro-style, has a higher ceiling than the high-tempo offense, but, based on the fact that you’re so committed to being able to be variant, you also have a lower floor because if you don’t have the quarterback, then the system falls on its face. It’s a high-risk, high-reward type of gamble, so if you are an A-list program and can get that player, go ahead and do it. USC, Alabama, Michigan, Stanford, that’s going to work out.

If you’re a program that can’t, every year, say: “We’re going to have a guy that can do that, I know it. I’m going to recruit him, he’s going to come here because we can get him. He’s going to be a 4-star, 5-star kid…we’re going to get one of the best pocket quarterbacks in the country every year.” If you’re not a program like that, like Oregon, Baylor... what do you have to do? You have to take the ceiling down a little bit. You raise your floor by saying our system is going to be the same all the time because we can go out and recruit a kid that’s athletic enough to run our system. Those kids are littering the country because at the lowest levels of football what are they doing? The best athlete on the team is no longer the running back. The best athlete on the team is the quarterback now…We’ve got all sorts of high school quarterbacks now who understand how to run around."

Since that idea was put out there, I've seen a couple of super-recruit QB's at Oregon.
It should be interesting to see who rises to the top. It doesn't all end with Marcus Mariota.

 

[RunLeeRun]

BTW, this wasnt in any way intended to be shot to Oregon (nor Baylor for that matter, though I've never met a fan and not sure they even exist). I dont think its intended to infer inferior. Oregon has done as well (better?) Even with inferior QB play. Those were the two examples given.

 

[RunLeeRun]

Dp

 

[cloverleaf]

Under Saban, Alabama has had great success recruiting running backs because of the pro-style offense. Tide coaches use it as a recruiting tool. Come with us and learn what the majority of NFL teams run. You will be ahead of the learning curve once you're drafted into the big leagues.

 

[russ1945]

A pro style attack works best when combined with a dominant defense. The Alabama has long been known for it's defense but recently has been exploited by wide open offenses especially the fast tempo ones. Sabin likes to control a game and when he is not able to he pays the price.

 

[CoachCB]

A pro style attack works best when combined with a dominant defense. The Alabama has long been known for it's defense but recently has been exploited by wide open offenses especially the fast tempo ones. Sabin likes to control a game and when he is not able to he pays the price.

Agree, but Meyer runs the spread w/ a dominant defense.

ANY offense works better w/ a dominant defense!!

I think the first description of the pro-style offense was silly and confusing. It's not rocket science. A pro-style offense essentially goes under center most of the time....and a spread uses mostly shot-gun. There are "Pro/NFL" teams that run variations of the spread offense. The term comes from "back in the day" when a lot of college teams ran the Wing-T or Wishbone offenses, which don't work in the NFL due to talent, speed, and life-expectency of your QB.

 

[cloverleaf]

Alabama has primarily been under center with the QB handing off to the big running backs. This season the QB will be in the shot-gun much more than in the past with a quicker pace than previous years.

One of the reasons the starting QB situation is still up in the air...I'm thinking.

 

[ChrisParadise]

Since that idea was put out there, I've seen a couple of super-recruit QB's at Oregon.
It should be interesting to see who rises to the top. It doesn't all end with Marcus Mariota.

Sigh. We've been through this before. Mahalak is in no way a super recruit. Oregon beat out Idaho,South Alabama and Duke for him. He is exactly the kind of guy Klatt is talking about settling for.

 

[GoSooners]

Agree, but Meyer runs the spread w/ a dominant defense.

ANY offense works better w/ a dominant defense!!

I think the first description of the pro-style offense was silly and confusing. It's not rocket science. A pro-style offense essentially goes under center most of the time....and a spread uses mostly shot-gun. There are "Pro/NFL" teams that run variations of the spread offense. The term comes from "back in the day" when a lot of college teams ran the Wing-T or Wishbone offenses, which don't work in the NFL due to talent, speed, and life-expectency of your QB.

I've read the same things about NFL offenses. They are going more and more to a variation or hybrid of one scheme or the other. But I don't think they will ever adopt a 100% spread offense to use throughout the NFL. The defenses are too good. And spread offenses don't give you as many options to change the play at the line of scrimmage than you do in a pro style where you have a RB, FB and TE on the field at the same time. It makes it much easier to audible from a pass to a run and vice versa. If you have a super talented QB like a Manning, Brees or Brady you can use a combination of both offenses. And they can be incredibly tough to stop. Problem is they are also incredibly hard to learn and execute, which is probably why you don't see very many college teams doing it.

 

[Conan]

Sigh. We've been through this before. Mahalak is in no way a super recruit. Oregon beat out Idaho,South Alabama and Duke for him. He is exactly the kind of guy Klatt is talking about settling for.

Nice of you to give the guy half a chance. Mariota didn't arrive with a silver spoon in his mouth either. He earned his job.
Where were you when Benjamin Masoli, the Duck QB was arrested for burglary, sat out a year and wound up starting
at Mississippi? Were you too busy celebrating Oregon's misfortune to be following Mariota's recruiting story? It's just too
tough that you missed out on that player's developing career.

You can count on your fingers all of the 4* and 5* QB's that were expected to make it and then did. The greater
majority that turned out to have noteworthy careers entered the process with 3* or even less. Newsflash, 17-19
year old kids have not finished growing and filling out yet.

With all the experience you claim to possess you would have us believe your predictions are nevertheless credible in
the face of Oregon's consistent rise in the ranks of the elite CFB programs over the last decade? The spin you routinely
throw out about anything Oregon, considering the gains they've worked hard for in the conference and on the national
scene, your attitude colors your opinions, destroys your credibility and with it, you betray yourself... blindly.

If you care to know why people like me and plenty of others choose to ignore most everything you say, take it or leave
it. I just did you a huge favor spelling it out for you nicely.

 

[ChrisParadise]

Come on now. The article (very good I might add) makes many good points. It explains how and why schools like Oregon have to settle for lower rated QBs.

Your response as a homer was basically "no we have super recruits lined up waiting" and that's simply not true. The quality of QB on Oregon's roster fits exactly the authors assertion. The article and discussion is not about the value and accuracy of stars or the rate of maturity of 17 yr old boys...but when you are called out for saying dumb shit thats where you go. You spin.

YOU are the one that's shows no credibility with your irrational defense and blatant lies.

Just how much do you actually know about college football? The guys name was Jeremiah Masoli,not Benjiman. Few years back you called Jonathan Stewart the wrong name too. Last month you said UCLA had SIGNED players for 2016 which even the most average college football fan understands is not possible.

Truth is Oregon is probably one of my top 10 favorite teams. I enjoy watching them play. But I know they can't beat the big boys and their fans know as much about football as I do about surfing. I probably shouldn't pick on you for being ignorant about the sport. It's like laughing at an Australian baseball fan. I respect the passion but you just don't know shit.

 

[Conan]

BTW, this wasnt in any way intended to be shot to Oregon (nor Baylor for that matter, though I've never met a fan and not sure they even exist). I don't think its intended to infer inferior. Oregon has done as well (better?) Even with inferior QB play. Those were the two examples given.

I don't think most people know this, but Oregon's first dual threat running QB was Benjamin Masoli (Samoan decent.) He did a better job extending
plays than Dennis Dixon, Kellen Clemens or his successor Darron Thomas. (Thomas left the team after starting the previous year which opened the
door for Mariota.) Unfortunately, Masoli had a downside paralleling Jameis Winston so a lot about him was buried in all the police reports. In Mariota's
first start vs. Arkansas State, he played the roll of a pocket passer. His 4.6 40 speed rivals the speedy CB's and safeties that try to defend against
him. With that in mind, the spread option was further developed and refined by Kelly along with some designed QB runs and an up-tempo approach.
The rest is history.

My point is that Oregon's offense has always adapted to its greatest strengths. Not long ago, it was all about their all-America, all-World RB
DeAnthony Thomas. But then again their overall game plan has traditionally included a run-first oriented offense. No one ever heard of Kenjon
Barner until he shattered team rushing records this way and that way. Like 'shrooms that pop up overnight, all of these so-called "nobody"
superstars have appeared like magic and let's not forget that there were few if any 4* and 5* recruits among them. In spite of that, year after
year Oregon's offensive output has resulted in tons of points scored... ever changing because of personnel gains and losses, but the results
have been consistently the same.

Hopefully Don Pellum will have more success as Oregon's DC than his predecessor Nick Alliotti. I used to see 4 TD leads evaporate and deep
vertical passing gains hurt the Ducks almost on a weekly basis. I cringed as Duck opponents mounted a counter attack during games. Maybe
you can see why I have never been a great fan of his defense. it should eventually work out with Don Pellum as the Duck DC. His defenses are
much more aggressive than Alliotti's bend but don't break defenses. As a matter of fact, I thought all of that was a crock of shit.

 

[ChrisParadise]

I don't think most people know this, but Oregon's first dual threat running QB was Benjamin Masoli.

Damn. Now that's good info. Oregon doesn't even have record of a Benjiman Masoli ever playing there. But you know! you are a valuable fountain of information

 

[TyBounce]

The biggest difference in the offensive landscape today is'nt just the "spread option" but the "NO HUDDLE". (and this is b/c of micro managing from the coaches)

It used to be that teams only went no huddle when they were trying to hurry up , but nowadays teams go no huddle but they are not in a hurry.(just micro managing) the qb goes to the line and starts barking , then the lineman raise up and peer over to the sidelines like a bunch of meerkats , then the qb gets the snap with under 5 seconds left on the playclock. The coach wants to see everything he can before the play is called.

And the result is while society is getting smarter , qb's are getting dumber. ... I guess Andrew Luck and Russel Wilson are great qb's , but we are seeing a lot of great college qb's like tebow and manzeil who shouldnt be carrying jock straps in the nfl.

I'd rather send the play in with a player and go to a huddle and get a plan. ... Phuck all this micro managing. We may not see anymore Mannings or Brees's.

If i had an nfl team i'd take mannion before winston or marriota.

 

[BigdaddyQH]

Conan, if you honestly think that Oregon can recruit with the likes of Alabama, USC, Florida State, Ohio State, and 10 more teams that I can list, it is time for you to get the hell out of here. That type of homerism is NOT acceptable in here. All you do is brag about Oregon, but ignore the fact that just like you, when the chips are down, Oregon is a LOSER. Always has been. Always will be. You have absolutely NOTHING to brag about. NOTHING. Win a National Championship and get back to me. Until then, the back of the NCaa bus is where you belong. You and all of your other Oregon homers in here.

 

[Conan]

Come on now. The article (very good I might add) makes many good points. It explains how and why schools like Oregon have to settle for lower rated QBs.

Your response as a homer was basically "no we have super recruits lined up waiting" and that's simply not true. The quality of QB on Oregon's roster fits exactly the authors assertion. The article and discussion is not about the value and accuracy of stars or the rate of maturity of 17 yr old boys...but when you are called out for saying dumb shit thats where you go. You spin.

YOU are the one that's shows no credibility with your irrational defense and blatant lies.

Just how much do you actually know about college football? The guys name was Jeremiah Masoli,not Benjiman. Few years back you called Jonathan Stewart the wrong name too. Last month you said UCLA had SIGNED players for 2016 which even the most average college football fan understands is not possible.

Truth is Oregon is probably one of my top 10 favorite teams. I enjoy watching them play. But I know they can't beat the big boys and their fans know as much about football as I do about surfing. I probably shouldn't pick on you for being ignorant about the sport. It's like laughing at an Australian baseball fan. I respect the passion but you just don't know shit.

You can't hide your obsession because he tone of your words has been unchanged forever. It's as though you have rehearsed your words to trigger a canned response if there is anything said that resembles something else that shorts out your brain. You try to make judgements that are so far over the top, no one could ever agree. And to that, your selection W/L record (what there is of it) perfectly illustrates the difference between you and me. Only one of us has a worthwhile grip on reality. That's how your judgments show up here in a gambling forum. Something like a Tasmanian Devil.

The fact is that 2 Duck QB's in just the last 5 or 6 years have either won a Heisman or been the front runner close to the end of the season before suffering a season ending injury. It's too bad that Dennis Dixon came so close only to be denied as were the Ducks from what looked like a cinch to make it into the NC game. There are many who genuinely believe that Dixon's team was the best Duck team ever. Personally I haven't given the matter much thought.

You really look like an obsessed idiot whenever you try to mince words over a misquote I might type from time to time, and you can't tell the difference from everything else I write. Most people here also read my occasional absentminded faux pas and just laugh at my misstatements calling them "Conanisms." I can admit to that because it's true. That is much closer to reality than anything you are capable of saying or thinking. Your simplistic view of what counts as ignorant can only be spoken by an obsessed individual that is blind to his own acts and words. You do it all the time.

I think the article got it wrong in one important way and for that you launch into a Tasmanian Devil-like rant bouncing off of 3 or more rails dragging up all the minutia you possibly can. I understand that you have personal problems and challenges in life that might seem unfairly heaped upon you that cause you to make introverted comments that are troubling to see anyone make in hopes of realizing some sort of vindication. If you really believe your own words, that your judgments are made as you've shown, then I can see why you don't post any plays. It takes real knowledge to win this game of gambling.

 

[ChrisParadise]

You fail to understand you disagree with the article. It's not me that said that,it's some dude named Klatt that played at Colorado.



Ill post up 100 with hache or betallsports if you wanna head to head cap contest in the fall. or if wanna go 500 I'd let George or Griffin hold it. I'm pretty confident I can beat a guy that dint know the names of the players on his favorite team

 

[Conan]

Why do you think anything more needs to be proven?
The fact has been established that you can't pick winners and I can.
You just refuse to accept the fact that this is true... and in your face.
I have no need or desire to belabor the point, so you should just quit
while you still can.

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=878536

When is the last time you hit 68%?