Presidential Election Thoughts; Financial Crisis

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Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul.
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I know most people are locked in on who they want to vote for, but the recent "financial crisis" has caused me to re-evaluate.

At first, I didn't understand the financial crisis but when the stock market kept tanking I wanted to try to figure it out.

The root of the financial crisis is the "sub-prime" mortgage. Simply put, too many loans were made to risky borrowers. This is not a minority/race issue at all. Many of these loans never should have been made. But they were, and they were pooled into bonds and other investments. Sophisticated investors/institutions acquired "credit default swaps", which offers insurance type protection in the event of defaults on the bonds (i.e., if the mortgages within the bonds go bad). Somehow, investors in many cases were able to aquire the credit default swaps without even owning the bonds!! Lehmann Bros. issued many of these and was, therefore, on the hook to pay off when many of the bonds defaulted. Ditto for AIG, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, Wachovia, etc.

Why were all these subprime loans made you might ask, and why should we feel sorry for lenders who were stupid enough to make bad loans? Well, here is where Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get involved. The government (note not just Republicans or Democrats) decided that it was unfair that lower income people were not able to qualify for mortgages and thus could not buy homes. So, the government enabled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start buying up these subprime loans. And they did it with a vengeance. When it became apparent that the loans they were buying, and in many cases repackaging and selling(with the backing of Uncle Sam) were serious default risks, they bought off our congressional "leaders" (both Republicans and Democrats) with generous campaign contributions. One of their big lobbyists is now an advisor to McCain's campaign:shocked:. Obama isn't innocent, however, two of his advisors were heads or high up in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac:nono5: Ultimately Fannie and Freddie had to be bailed out because of so many bad loans.

We know all of these corporate implosions have led to huge "bailouts" from the government. This sounds like it might not affect the average guy, but think about where the money is coming from to pay the "bailouts". It has to be either taxes or a worse alternative - printing money. So, going forward, to pay for these enormous bailouts, you (and/or your children) are going to have to pay higher taxes or, if printing money is how the bailouts are funded, you (and/or your children) will see the value of any dollars you have managed to save be eroded by rampant inflation. Either way, you (and/or your children) are chumps with a capital C:ohno:


People always want to assess blame for situations such as this, and partisan politics has Democrats blaming Republicans and Republicans blaming Democrats. All that does is obscure the fact that you (and/or your children) are complete and total chumps.

This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. Rather than bickering between parties, us chumps need to band together and realize its the Government that is the problem!!!

Choosing sides at this point and voting for Obama or McCain while blaming their opponent will simply enable the Government to keep fleecing you through higher taxes or by inflating away the dollars that you have.

This type of Government is exactly what our founding fathers tried to avoid.

So, instead of getting all geeked up for one "team" or another, realize that you are still losing even if your guy wins.

Unless and until people realize that government is the problem, not the solution, our country will continue its downward path.

As for me, I am registering as a libertarian. I'll be voting for Bob Barr. Some will say it's "throwing your vote away", but I firmly believe a vote for Obama or McCain is worse because either way is a vote for continued corruption and fleecing of you and/or your children.

There, I feel better now. :drink:
 

powdered milkman
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how bout' trying the poly forum......where there is 300 of these threads
 

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I know most people are locked in on who they want to vote for, but the recent "financial crisis" has caused me to re-evaluate.

At first, I didn't understand the financial crisis but when the stock market kept tanking I wanted to try to figure it out.

The root of the financial crisis is the "sub-prime" mortgage. Simply put, too many loans were made to risky borrowers. This is not a minority/race issue at all. Many of these loans never should have been made. But they were, and they were pooled into bonds and other investments. Sophisticated investors/institutions acquired "credit default swaps", which offers insurance type protection in the event of defaults on the bonds (i.e., if the mortgages within the bonds go bad). Somehow, investors in many cases were able to aquire the credit default swaps without even owning the bonds!! Lehmann Bros. issued many of these and was, therefore, on the hook to pay off when many of the bonds defaulted. Ditto for AIG, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, Wachovia, etc.

Why were all these subprime loans made you might ask, and why should we feel sorry for lenders who were stupid enough to make bad loans? Well, here is where Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get involved. The government (note not just Republicans or Democrats) decided that it was unfair that lower income people were not able to qualify for mortgages and thus could not buy homes. So, the government enabled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to start buying up these subprime loans. And they did it with a vengeance. When it became apparent that the loans they were buying, and in many cases repackaging and selling(with the backing of Uncle Sam) were serious default risks, they bought off our congressional "leaders" (both Republicans and Democrats) with generous campaign contributions. One of their big lobbyists is now an advisor to McCain's campaign:shocked:. Obama isn't innocent, however, two of his advisors were heads or high up in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac:nono5: Ultimately Fannie and Freddie had to be bailed out because of so many bad loans.

We know all of these corporate implosions have led to huge "bailouts" from the government. This sounds like it might not affect the average guy, but think about where the money is coming from to pay the "bailouts". It has to be either taxes or a worse alternative - printing money. So, going forward, to pay for these enormous bailouts, you (and/or your children) are going to have to pay higher taxes or, if printing money is how the bailouts are funded, you (and/or your children) will see the value of any dollars you have managed to save be eroded by rampant inflation. Either way, you (and/or your children) are chumps with a capital C:ohno:


People always want to assess blame for situations such as this, and partisan politics has Democrats blaming Republicans and Republicans blaming Democrats. All that does is obscure the fact that you (and/or your children) are complete and total chumps.

This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. Rather than bickering between parties, us chumps need to band together and realize its the Government that is the problem!!!

Choosing sides at this point and voting for Obama or McCain while blaming their opponent will simply enable the Government to keep fleecing you through higher taxes or by inflating away the dollars that you have.

This type of Government is exactly what our founding fathers tried to avoid.

So, instead of getting all geeked up for one "team" or another, realize that you are still losing even if your guy wins.

Unless and until people realize that government is the problem, not the solution, our country will continue its downward path.

As for me, I am registering as a libertarian. I'll be voting for Bob Barr. Some will say it's "throwing your vote away", but I firmly believe a vote for Obama or McCain is worse because either way is a vote for continued corruption and fleecing of you and/or your children.

There, I feel better now. :drink:


I admire your opinion, and just cant pull the lever for Barr who I want to vote for , But Obama has to be stopped

I feel bad, but I have to vote for McCain

We need Ron Paul , its a shame he couldnt work things out with Barr
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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I admire your opinion, and just cant pull the lever for Barr who I want to vote for , But Obama has to be stopped

I feel bad, but I have to vote for McCain

We need Ron Paul , its a shame he couldnt work things out with Barr

i say let um have obama for 4 years than us small government kooks can gain some momentum for 2012

if mccain gets in

hillary a shoe in come 2012 and nothing can stop it.....IMO
 

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Lots of libertarians in here who would agree with pretty much everything you say. I would too, although I have diabolical objectives with my support of libertarianism. I don't think it can work long term but I like what it would lead to.
 

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar
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The root of this ENTIRE financial crisis is the DEMOCRATS...Blame it on all of em for the last 8 yrs but thios started in the late 70's and was totally pushed, backed and profitted from by DEMOCRATS........They knew it was going to blow up soon and delayed it until they could no longer so that the crisis would coincide with the election........They let our economy go to hell JUST to win an election...
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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Lots of libertarians in here who would agree with pretty much everything you say. I would too, although I have diabolical objectives with my support of libertarianism. I don't think it can work long term but I like what it would lead to.

anarchy kicks ass

you know it
 

Rx Junior
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Sophisticated investors/institutions acquired "credit default swaps", which offers insurance type protection in the event of defaults on the bonds (i.e., if the mortgages within the bonds go bad). Somehow, investors in many cases were able to aquire the credit default swaps without even owning the bonds!! Lehmann Bros. issued many of these and was, therefore, on the hook to pay off when many of the bonds defaulted. Ditto for AIG, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, Wachovia, etc


Ever heard of the guy called Phil Gramm. Wanna do some research and see how knee deep this guy was in it to make all this possible?

Regarding who is to blame, are you kidding me? Look at the people who were pumping deregulation and promoting self regulation of the markets. They are the ones who caused this mess.

Some may blame the treasury but i will still argue, just because some one has a first aid kid ready, doesnt mean you should start running around with scissors in your hands!


Granted most politicians like Mccain or Obama couldnt have known the extent of damage that could be done. But only one of them called for deregulation over and over again and even wanted social security going down the same path.

I have no trouble separating Obama from this mess because i have looked at the level of his involvment and it is tame compared to Mccain and his touted financial adivsor former senator Phil Gramm.

Ps. I would like for you to name the person involved with Fannie Mae that is apparently in the OBama campaign or advises him on anything( be forewarned, thats a trick question)
 

powdered milkman
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The root of this ENTIRE financial crisis is the DEMOCRATS

PPP........this is actually something i agree with......but the pugs(esp GWB) have taken it to a whole new level.....and rightly or wrongly mc and sarah are going to suffer for it
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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right=fascist capitalists
left=commies

either choice the hard working individualistic trying to work hard to make a better life for himself J6P loses

welcome to commufascist america
 

Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul.
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Piccolo, I'm talking about Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson.

I know Phil Gramm is Dems' poster child to blame for this situation due to deregulation. However, I believe deregulation is not the primary driver of this mess. Instead, it's the government involvement via Fannie and Freddie as well as governmentally initiated social engineering policies to make loans to less qualified/unqualified borrowers. This enabled lenders to make loans to unqualified borrowers b/c they knew they could sell them and eliminate their risk. Classic moral hazard situation where they were essentially loaning someone else's money and profiting w/ origination fees, etc.

In other words, deregulation in and of itself was not the problem. It definitely added a lot of fuel to add to the inevitable fire started by government inserting itself into markets which otherwise would have not led to as many bad loans being made.


But my point was more that we are all suckers. It's easy to get caught up in Daily Kos vs. Rush Limbaugh talking points and get all fired up for one side and invested in the outcome. But we have serious systemic problems and picking one flawed, corrupt party over the other also flawed, corrupt party is only distracting us from the fact that we are riding a falling star.

Time to stop rooting for one horse over another and realize that the horses are all galloping towards a cliff with blinders on.
 

Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul.
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Daryl Parsons, what diabolical objectives do you have?:think2:


Tiznow, I'm not talking about anarchy, I'm talking about more limited government that served this country just fine for 150+ years.:103631605


It's clear to me that all the 2 party bickering and partisanship :discuss:
inevitably leads to being on the receiving end of :hump: for nearly all of us!!
 

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Daryl Parsons, what diabolical objectives do you have?:think2:

Creating a white nationalist state. Much easier under anarchy than the current system. I don't really consider it diabolical btw, just used the term for fun because a lot of people who support the current system would consider it so.
 

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Creating a white nationalist state. Much easier under anarchy than the current system. I don't really consider it diabolical btw, just used the term for fun because a lot of people who support the current system would consider it so.

You wont have that with all the immigration pouring in. Your better of moving to Canada and setting up shop. I would assume they have far less "colored" folks.
 

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You wont have that with all the immigration pouring in. Your better of moving to Canada and setting up shop. I would assume they have far less "colored" folks.

Not looking for a huge territory, just 50,000 square miles or so. That leaves 3.74 million for everyone else.
 

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