Just can't figure out how there making any money this season with the vig so low.Its been a horrible season for the books with all these games falling on the number.Also how can they make money booking the wise-guys letting them lay 105. Can anyone here explain this to me.I know there a sharp store but anybody can get broke in this business i don't care how much money you have.
Jersey, very good point. I have accounts at Skybook and Pinnacle. I love both books, but I am pretty amazed that Pinnacle can take 20k on the 105 while skybook only takes $500.oo on the free half point. The $500.00 makes more sense. I have to assume that Pinnacle is so sure that their info is phenomenal, (they manipulate the juice heavily,) that they can overcome anything. Pinnacle seems to be getting bigger and bigger, perhaps they just get the job done on HUGE volume. My gut instinct tells me they are doing fine.
Reasons why Pinny can handle -105:
1. Volume
2. More volume
3. Even more volume.
4. Sharp lines.
5. Really sharp lines
6. Really really sharp lines.
Case in point, they had Kentucky +10.5+105 then +11.5+105 and late had Tennessee -14+103. Who do you think got middled when this number hit? Not Pinnacle.
Volume can easily overcome low juice for a good BM. Just run your own scenario with fixed costs and -110 vs. -105 at various volumes. A similar BM will make a lot more at -105 with high volume than -110 with low volume.
Just my guess, but I'll say that Pinny makes just about as much profit as ANY other single offshore. Why? See 1 through 6 above.
1. Volume
2. More volume
3. Even more volume.
4. Sharp lines.
5. Really sharp lines
6. Really really sharp lines.
Case in point, they had Kentucky +10.5+105 then +11.5+105 and late had Tennessee -14+103. Who do you think got middled when this number hit? Not Pinnacle.
Volume can easily overcome low juice for a good BM. Just run your own scenario with fixed costs and -110 vs. -105 at various volumes. A similar BM will make a lot more at -105 with high volume than -110 with low volume.
Just my guess, but I'll say that Pinny makes just about as much profit as ANY other single offshore. Why? See 1 through 6 above.
They don't just get tons of action... They get it balanced.
When lines come out, the Sharps move in on their overnight limits. I doubt Pinnacle is the one actually moving the lines.
Consider the line Dog +7 -105 vs Fav -7 -105. If the dog is the "right" side, Pinnie's line will be Dog +7 -112 Fav +7 +102 by the next morning. so then the rest of your public bettors see Fav +7 +102, or Fav +7 -110 everywhere else. So the rest of the week, the public and sharps take turns bumping the line a few cents. And the entire time, Pinnie's line is the best on both sides!
Pinnacle is the ultimate funneling machine - its reduced juice draws public money to offset sharp money. And due to the way they shift their lines (and that they want balanced action, even against public money), they don't care if sharps play there. Ever heard of a wise guy getting kicked out of there?
When lines come out, the Sharps move in on their overnight limits. I doubt Pinnacle is the one actually moving the lines.
Consider the line Dog +7 -105 vs Fav -7 -105. If the dog is the "right" side, Pinnie's line will be Dog +7 -112 Fav +7 +102 by the next morning. so then the rest of your public bettors see Fav +7 +102, or Fav +7 -110 everywhere else. So the rest of the week, the public and sharps take turns bumping the line a few cents. And the entire time, Pinnie's line is the best on both sides!
Pinnacle is the ultimate funneling machine - its reduced juice draws public money to offset sharp money. And due to the way they shift their lines (and that they want balanced action, even against public money), they don't care if sharps play there. Ever heard of a wise guy getting kicked out of there?
Low cost overhead(Seldom use 800#)
Very strong bookmakig.
I have had a verystrong NFL year. If I was in the chair with all the opions, our house would be doing fine. Would love to run a shop some time and have that11/10 woking for mr, even 105/100 you can drag either way, though I am sure they have the saids they want to be heavy or bet out.
Very strong bookmakig.
I have had a verystrong NFL year. If I was in the chair with all the opions, our house would be doing fine. Would love to run a shop some time and have that11/10 woking for mr, even 105/100 you can drag either way, though I am sure they have the saids they want to be heavy or bet out.
Its as simple as this..
If you are a bookie and have one or 2 whales betting 2k and everyone else is betting 200.00 you have 4k of exposure where you can get taken on a night. Pin has gotten to the point where they can guarentte themselves enough large wagers. The same principal applies when betting with a % of your bank roll...if your roll is huge .5% may be concervative for you but be someone else's whole role.
I would be worried if I saw them taking bets for 300k (not that I would kow) because in the long haul they wouldn't get enough of those wagers to guarentee a profit with the lil juice they do charge. Also it is alot compared to their limits so they would have no chanve getting balanced action on that number or one close to it.
I would guess Pin went through a period where they had to put their balls out there to get the rep they have.
If you are a bookie and have one or 2 whales betting 2k and everyone else is betting 200.00 you have 4k of exposure where you can get taken on a night. Pin has gotten to the point where they can guarentte themselves enough large wagers. The same principal applies when betting with a % of your bank roll...if your roll is huge .5% may be concervative for you but be someone else's whole role.
I would be worried if I saw them taking bets for 300k (not that I would kow) because in the long haul they wouldn't get enough of those wagers to guarentee a profit with the lil juice they do charge. Also it is alot compared to their limits so they would have no chanve getting balanced action on that number or one close to it.
I would guess Pin went through a period where they had to put their balls out there to get the rep they have.
how does walmart survive offering lower prices than everyone else?
VOLUME
that simple. They are taking less of a cut than others, but the added volume makes up for it.
a good business plan (which pinnacle has) also helps. Keep in mind you don't see pinny giving out 25% matchplay bonuses, free half points, etc, etc.
VOLUME
that simple. They are taking less of a cut than others, but the added volume makes up for it.
a good business plan (which pinnacle has) also helps. Keep in mind you don't see pinny giving out 25% matchplay bonuses, free half points, etc, etc.
It is as if thay beg you to take a certain side and I am sure that most would take the better looking vig when they really do not know what they are betting for. Bettors who just bet for action will buy the better vig most often. Seems like a discount
Pinnacle wins.
Jax +3½ -115
TB -3½ +105
The average Joe would get allover TB +105.
Lots of average Joes out there.
Jax +3½ -115
TB -3½ +105
The average Joe would get allover TB +105.
Lots of average Joes out there.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sodium Pentethol V:
Pretty tough to earn with the juice they charge unless you are consistently on the correct side.
The volume debate is interesting, but the bettors win, and rest assured if you are booking to everyone, you are booking to winners.
Regardless of the cost saving from the phones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pretty tough to earn with the juice they charge unless you are consistently on the correct side.
The volume debate is interesting, but the bettors win, and rest assured if you are booking to everyone, you are booking to winners.
Regardless of the cost saving from the phones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My post is a little misleading,
it should've read players typically outperform the theoretical juice, I didn't mean to imply that all players win, the implication is that if you book to everyone your actual take will be lower than the theoretical take unless of course you are Pinnacle and are always on the right side.
it should've read players typically outperform the theoretical juice, I didn't mean to imply that all players win, the implication is that if you book to everyone your actual take will be lower than the theoretical take unless of course you are Pinnacle and are always on the right side.
