<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SportSavant:
How do you know when you are playing party poker that it is a safe game...ie that your opponents are not on the phone with each other telling each other what cards they have etc etc....I am sure they have some safeguards in place but it cannot be foolproof can it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do not sportsavant... I am sure it goes on in all poker rooms.
I play at PP alot and If I noticed certain people always raising against each other or whatever to get others to fold I move to a different table, I usually play low limits where I think that sort of collusion may not happen as much...but IMO PP is the best .
How do you know when you are playing party poker that it is a safe game...ie that your opponents are not on the phone with each other telling each other what cards they have etc etc....I am sure they have some safeguards in place but it cannot be foolproof can it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do not sportsavant... I am sure it goes on in all poker rooms.
I play at PP alot and If I noticed certain people always raising against each other or whatever to get others to fold I move to a different table, I usually play low limits where I think that sort of collusion may not happen as much...but IMO PP is the best .
The other posters are correct: it is impossible to stop collusion completely. However, all the decent Poker outfits have both Poker experts actually watching the play in real time, and also software which looks for suspicious play. Neither are infallable, and the former is certainly not cheap, but they go a long way to stop problems getting out of hand.
Stick with the advice given by the other posters and stick to low limit games. If you have any issues at all, raise them with the Poker outfit you are playing with, and like with any kind of gambling just move on to another place if you feel like you are getting shafted.
There are plenty out there!
Stick with the advice given by the other posters and stick to low limit games. If you have any issues at all, raise them with the Poker outfit you are playing with, and like with any kind of gambling just move on to another place if you feel like you are getting shafted.
There are plenty out there!
Collusion happens more often in low limit games than in higher ones. The cheats know that the high limit players will both spot it faster and be certain to report it to management quickly.
Most good online poker rooms use two main methods to stop collusion.
1) Acting on complaints by players. Every hand is recorded on Party Poker and the other good online rooms. Management can review claims of suspicious activity.
2) Collusion software is in place at Party Poker and most good online rooms. The software doesn't look for suspicious betting activity. What it does is look for the same usernames showing up in the same game at a frequency greater than what would normally happen. If that happens, management reviews hands they play to look for betting activity (relative to the hands held) that might suggest collusion.
It isn't totally foolproof, but it goes a long way towards dealing with the problem.
BTW: Collusion cheats don't waste their time on the phone. They simply open Yahoo or AIM messengers and voice chat each other.
Most good online poker rooms use two main methods to stop collusion.
1) Acting on complaints by players. Every hand is recorded on Party Poker and the other good online rooms. Management can review claims of suspicious activity.
2) Collusion software is in place at Party Poker and most good online rooms. The software doesn't look for suspicious betting activity. What it does is look for the same usernames showing up in the same game at a frequency greater than what would normally happen. If that happens, management reviews hands they play to look for betting activity (relative to the hands held) that might suggest collusion.
It isn't totally foolproof, but it goes a long way towards dealing with the problem.
BTW: Collusion cheats don't waste their time on the phone. They simply open Yahoo or AIM messengers and voice chat each other.
What about when you guys post here for example that there is a Private table open...obviously lots of players from this forum would then go to PPoker to Play...& would often play together at the same table...(Obviously becauz they are freinds & want to chat while playing). Would this collusion software not negate this or would it be 'inactive' or something due to the fact that it was a private table. later
sportsavant.com
sportsavant.com
Playing on a private table with friends has a totally different play pattern than cheaters. Just because you chat with other people on the table does not mean that you can see each other's hands and bet accordingly. Most software looks at play patterns and not whether people are chatting with each other.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SportSavant:
I understand, however it was suggested earlier that the software may look for two people in the same table more than what would be 'reasonable' however I guess if it is a private table this determination woudnt matter?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Obviously the private tables have to be excluded from software that searches for players playing together at a statistically significant level.
Party is probably one of the safest places to play because the large number of players make it easier to detect players who are at the same table more frequently than would be expected.
Basically the answer is if you play low limits the colluders are such poor players that they shouldn't impact your game. If you play high limits you should have the experience to be aware. Also don't be fooled by players who use a highly aggressive style into thinking they are colluding. As the saying goes if you can't stand the heat leave the kitchen.
I understand, however it was suggested earlier that the software may look for two people in the same table more than what would be 'reasonable' however I guess if it is a private table this determination woudnt matter?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Obviously the private tables have to be excluded from software that searches for players playing together at a statistically significant level.
Party is probably one of the safest places to play because the large number of players make it easier to detect players who are at the same table more frequently than would be expected.
Basically the answer is if you play low limits the colluders are such poor players that they shouldn't impact your game. If you play high limits you should have the experience to be aware. Also don't be fooled by players who use a highly aggressive style into thinking they are colluding. As the saying goes if you can't stand the heat leave the kitchen.
In my opinion, Party Poker is a ripoff. I'm not the only one when I say this but their software deals out to many high hands to take a better rake. The odds on getting a pair of A's getting dealt pre-flop is 220-1. I played last night 150 hands and saw it 6 times, myself even once, all in bet, lost to pair of 10's when a ten turned up. My friend said he had them twice at a different table, as well. A couple other times, others had a pair of face cards in the same hand. Last hand I will ever play at Party Poker ended with JJ dealt $10 bet, J 5 2 (all different suits) $20 bet after flop, 8 on turn and two cards now suited, All-in $30 bet, guy calls catches the flush on the last card. And this was not the only time it has happened. Granted he had A Q suited, but at the small stake, $25 NL table to call. Give me a break.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whitetiger04861:
In my opinion, Party Poker is a ripoff. I'm not the only one when I say this but their software deals out to many high hands to take a better rake. The odds on getting a pair of A's getting dealt pre-flop is 220-1. I played last night 150 hands and saw it 6 times, myself even once, all in bet, lost to pair of 10's when a ten turned up. My friend said he had them twice at a different table, as well. A couple other times, others had a pair of face cards in the same hand. Last hand I will ever play at Party Poker ended with JJ dealt $10 bet, J 5 2 (all different suits) $20 bet after flop, 8 on turn and two cards now suited, All-in $30 bet, guy calls catches the flush on the last card. And this was not the only time it has happened. Granted he had A Q suited, but at the small stake, $25 NL table to call. Give me a break.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me guess, you lose often right.
1) How often have you played Texas Hold Em live at a cardroom? If you've done it a lot you would see some amazing things. Here are a few hands from recent trips to actual cardrooms:
a) Dealt QQ in a three way pot versus AA. Lots of raising preflop and on the flop. The casino takes the maximum rake. Is this an example of "to many high hands?"
b) Dealt QQ headsup versus AA same table as above but 10 minutes later. Is the dealer fixing the game?
c) At a different casino from A and B, dealt AA in the first hand I play then KK on the very next hand. Is the game fixed?
d) If I recall correctly....at a third casino I'm dealt AK, the betting is capped preflop and there is 5 way action. Flop comes KKK, someone drops out and betting capped on the flop turn is a face card, betting capped, river is a 10 or a face (three of same suit), betting is capped....
Showdown
I have 4 kings
Player 1 has a boat KKKAA
Player 2 has a flush
Player 3 has a Broadway straight
Is this game fixed? Don't think so but feel free to ask players 2 and 3 (I won't) why the hell they are calling maximum bets to draw to str8s, flushes, middle-weak boats. BTW, I'm guessing the maximum rake was taken by the time the flop came.
e) Haven't bluffed all game and I'm dealt a pair of Jacks, 3 way flop....no overcards come. I bet, one folds and now it's headsup. Turn no help...I'm betting and the guy is calling. River comes 10 and the guy bets into me. I pay him off like a friggin slot machine knowing this donkey just caught a two outer. He flips over his set of 10s and the dealer ships the pot to him. Fixed? Don't think so.
f) Middle limit game...dealt AA 5 way capped betting preflop. Flop comes 345 capped betting, turn 3, one bet, river 4. Showndown..No boats and I'm crushed by a flopped str8 from someone who called three bets cold before the flop. Did Bellagio fix that hand?
This crap happens ALL THE TIME..it's poker.
Regarding your hand, that beat was bad but not the worst I've seen. The guy had AQ and put you on a pair of Jacks. At the turn he thought he had TONS of outs...any Ace, any Queen, plus the flush cards. You don't mention stack sizes, number of players, or pot size but I'm guessing the guy may even had the right odds to call you at the turn.
It sounds like you bet well and lost but you should be happy people are chasing your hand.
It's not Party that's a problem it's the fact that poker is GAMBLING and the best starting cards don't always win.
In my opinion, Party Poker is a ripoff. I'm not the only one when I say this but their software deals out to many high hands to take a better rake. The odds on getting a pair of A's getting dealt pre-flop is 220-1. I played last night 150 hands and saw it 6 times, myself even once, all in bet, lost to pair of 10's when a ten turned up. My friend said he had them twice at a different table, as well. A couple other times, others had a pair of face cards in the same hand. Last hand I will ever play at Party Poker ended with JJ dealt $10 bet, J 5 2 (all different suits) $20 bet after flop, 8 on turn and two cards now suited, All-in $30 bet, guy calls catches the flush on the last card. And this was not the only time it has happened. Granted he had A Q suited, but at the small stake, $25 NL table to call. Give me a break.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me guess, you lose often right.
1) How often have you played Texas Hold Em live at a cardroom? If you've done it a lot you would see some amazing things. Here are a few hands from recent trips to actual cardrooms:
a) Dealt QQ in a three way pot versus AA. Lots of raising preflop and on the flop. The casino takes the maximum rake. Is this an example of "to many high hands?"
b) Dealt QQ headsup versus AA same table as above but 10 minutes later. Is the dealer fixing the game?
c) At a different casino from A and B, dealt AA in the first hand I play then KK on the very next hand. Is the game fixed?
d) If I recall correctly....at a third casino I'm dealt AK, the betting is capped preflop and there is 5 way action. Flop comes KKK, someone drops out and betting capped on the flop turn is a face card, betting capped, river is a 10 or a face (three of same suit), betting is capped....
Showdown
I have 4 kings
Player 1 has a boat KKKAA
Player 2 has a flush
Player 3 has a Broadway straight
Is this game fixed? Don't think so but feel free to ask players 2 and 3 (I won't) why the hell they are calling maximum bets to draw to str8s, flushes, middle-weak boats. BTW, I'm guessing the maximum rake was taken by the time the flop came.
e) Haven't bluffed all game and I'm dealt a pair of Jacks, 3 way flop....no overcards come. I bet, one folds and now it's headsup. Turn no help...I'm betting and the guy is calling. River comes 10 and the guy bets into me. I pay him off like a friggin slot machine knowing this donkey just caught a two outer. He flips over his set of 10s and the dealer ships the pot to him. Fixed? Don't think so.
f) Middle limit game...dealt AA 5 way capped betting preflop. Flop comes 345 capped betting, turn 3, one bet, river 4. Showndown..No boats and I'm crushed by a flopped str8 from someone who called three bets cold before the flop. Did Bellagio fix that hand?
This crap happens ALL THE TIME..it's poker.
Regarding your hand, that beat was bad but not the worst I've seen. The guy had AQ and put you on a pair of Jacks. At the turn he thought he had TONS of outs...any Ace, any Queen, plus the flush cards. You don't mention stack sizes, number of players, or pot size but I'm guessing the guy may even had the right odds to call you at the turn.
It sounds like you bet well and lost but you should be happy people are chasing your hand.
It's not Party that's a problem it's the fact that poker is GAMBLING and the best starting cards don't always win.
I have to agree with White Tiger. Too many bizarre hands. High hands collide at a rate that isn't realistic in my opinion. I know you will come back with the "you are just bitter cause you lose" nonsense but I am not the only one that feels this way. Interesting thread at MJ forum on the subject.
