Online Poker...Fixed or Not???

[QuickLearner]

Online poker isn't rigged. Bad beats happen because bad players don't realize that they should fold. Those are the players who provide the payoff when you do win a hand. If bad players didn't win some of the time they would quit and there would be no more poker for us to play.

If you think Holdem is bad, try Omaha 8/better. Steve Badger says that the first book you should buy when you learn Omaha is the Bible. A typical session includes getting your ace high flush beaten by a full house at least a couple of times. I've also had a boat Aces over 5s cracked by someone who had the other two fives.

How do I handle it? I grit my teeth, say "nice hand," and make a mental note to call my doctor and see about getting my Paxil dosage upped...

 

[theswami]

Online poker isn't rigged. Bad beats happen because bad players don't realize that they should fold. Those are the players who provide the payoff when you do win a hand. If bad players didn't win some of the time they would quit and there would be no more poker for us to play.

If you think Holdem is bad, try Omaha 8/better. Steve Badger says that the first book you should buy when you learn Omaha is the Bible. A typical session includes getting your ace high flush beaten by a full house at least a couple of times. I've also had a boat Aces over 5s cracked by someone who had the other two fives.

How do I handle it? I grit my teeth, say "nice hand," and make a mental note to call my doctor and see about getting my Paxil dosage upped...

Nice post. Welcome to the Rx.

Omaha 8..great game but playing it correctly is like watching grass grow.

 

[THawk+]

When I stated earlier about online poker being rigged I did not mean theysteal your money...I meant more along the lines of what VolTItan posted about trying to keep people around so thye have more players to rake from...

QuickLearner I was talking about how bad players seem to get rewarded more than good players online...They hang in drawing cards no matter what they have in the hole and catch something on the turn or river that they had no right being in in the first place....

While someone who plays correctly folding, raising, and re-raising when they should gets screwed...I am not the only one who has noticed this....

It seems people catch cards way to often when they only have a couple of outs...I feel like the software likes to keep everybody interested and around by redistributing the money from player to player in cycles....

After all if the bad players kept losing like in live poker they would not keep posting money up all the time ...These are my observations only I have not gone deeper into it, yet but I will be trying some other sites and talking to other people that I respect and know how to play to see what their thoughts are on this....

ANyone have a working knowledge on the software that is used at these sites and if they are truly randome every hand or have rythems set up to help people.......

 

[QuickLearner]

Thanks for the welcome, Swami.

...I meant more along the lines of what VolTItan posted about trying to keep people around so thye have more players to rake from...

QuickLearner I was talking about how bad players seem to get rewarded more than good players online...They hang in drawing cards no matter what they have in the hole and catch something on the turn or river that they had no right being in in the first place....

While someone who plays correctly folding, raising, and re-raising when they should gets screwed...I am not the only one who has noticed this....

I understood what you meant, T Hawk, and I certainly see your point. I agree that it seems like people are being given a "reward" for hanging around with third-class holdings. But I am absolutely confidant that the RNGs that the poker sites use are square.

Here's one possible explanation for what you see, and I apologise now if this is old ground for you; it's the phenomenon of schooling. Here: Let's say we're playing $2/$4 limit holdem. You have two aces in early position and I have QJ suited on the button. You bet; 2 middle position players call; I call; the sb folds; the bb checks ($11 pot). The flop is KJ6, one of my suit. You bet; the 2 mp call; I call with my second pair and backdoor flush draw; the bb calls ($21). The turn is the ace of my suit. You check to prep for the check-raise; the 2 mp check, I bet my flush draw; the bb folds; you raise; the 2 mp fling their cards at the dealer (they each were fishing-in on marginal cards, probably; they and the bb are the "school"). So what do I do?

Well, there's $33 in the pot now, and I need to put in $4 more to see the river, unless I'm feeling froggy and want to pop you back...nah. What are my chances of catching a flush card? 9/46 or about 1:6. I have a nice overlay (1:8 vs. 1:6). I pretty much know that you have a good hand, and that I am currently behind, but the pot odds are in my favor.

So, I call your raise, and the flush card hits on the river. You check, dreading the worst; I bet; you call; and I drag the pot. You can't really blame me. But if it was just three of us in the pot I never would have had the correct odds to call your raise and I would have folded. Those bad players putting money in the pot are the reason you lost the hand.

It happens to me every day. Both ways. Good players suffer bad beats; bad players administer them. it might have been Meyer Lansky who said, "But this is the life we have chosen." Either that or I remember it from The Godfather...

 

[steeser]

The people complaining about it being fixed are losing players.

Your sample size is likely way too small, and things will regress to the mean the more hands you play.

As a side note, I have received far worse beats in a live casino than online. I play the 15/30 game on Party and 200 SNG's exclusively.

 

[TheGeneral+]

There are undoubtedly games involving collusion. I suggest when you feel this, then get out and look for another table. As for games being fixed, I think there are some. The beauty is our ability to leave these sites if we feel that way. If you continue to move around and still get beat on, then you need to look at your skill.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

dont know if someone mentioned this or not.

doesnt it seem like the majority of players who claim fixed games and complain about getting beat on the turn or river are playing the 1/2 or 2/4 games..

you are never gonna get guys to fold in those small games.

if you were playing the same way in the 30/60 game you might see different results.

maybe i'm wrong...

 

[vmax700sx]

There is no doubt online poker is fixed. Here is the proof:

http://www.billrini.com/archives/001169.html

 

[QuickLearner]

...... 1/2 or 2/4 games..

you are never gonna get guys to fold in those small games.

if you were playing the same way in the 30/60 game you might see different results.

maybe i'm wrong...

I've heard that one before. It's usually followed by, "I'm going to move up and play where people will respect my raises." If you can't compete at the low limits, the LAST thing you should do is search out better competition. Why not keep playing against those who you perceive to be playing marginal hands?

It takes tens of thousands of hands played before your win rate stabilizes. Ugly, but true.

 

[aceduecetrey]

I tend to agree with WNO. It is very hard to protect your hand in a 1/2 or 2/4 game though.

 

[TheGeneral+]

When I was into poker often, I preferred low limit tables. Like I mentioned, if you get a bad vibe, then just select another table. You will find good tables and usually players who are willing to throw away their money.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

I've heard that one before. It's usually followed by, "I'm going to move up and play where people will respect my raises." If you can't compete at the low limits, the LAST thing you should do is search out better competition. Why not keep playing against those who you perceive to be playing marginal hands?

It takes tens of thousands of hands played before your win rate stabilizes. Ugly, but true.

all i'm saying is you are less likely to have a guy calling 30 or 60 bucks or even a raise if he has a pair of 4's and is looking for a miracle out to have 2 pair that will beat someone's pocket kings or a board of overcards.

some guy is going to keep calling 2 and 4 bucks and river you.

i think that was the premise of this thread.

i would never search out better competition.

i'm no authority by any means, but feel like players are willing to send their 200 bucks in and play the 1/2 games and call all the way to the river more so than someone sending 3 grand in and playing that way in the larger games.

i could be dead wrong.

 

[planetwarrior]

The longer you play for more likely the law of averages will come to your rescue, Ive been knocked out of tournies with 3 8 OS vs AA i'm sure lotsa players have worse beats. Remember online you play a lot more hands/hour so the beats come quicker law of averages will even things out, just stick to your strategy, those players who play every hand will soon line your pockets.

 

[theswami]

....SNIP.....
i'm no authority by any means, but feel like players are willing to send their 200 bucks in and play the 1/2 games and call all the way to the river more so than someone sending 3 grand in and playing that way in the larger games.

i could be dead wrong.

You are not "dead" wrong but I often play in games that would qualify as mid/high limit that play looser than an average 2/4 or 3/6 game.

 

[planetwarrior]

i watched a guy drop 7000 in 45 mins at betfair poker

 

[X-Files]

Online, when you are on the winning streak if you begin increasing your bets, you begin to lose. If you are on the losing streak and begin increasing bets, you lose. I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT POKER, but why would it not be similar? But, it may be fair, I really do believe ONLINE BJ is rigged with a very good dose of psychology involved in the way they play the player. Some people say they win online bj after playing thousands and thousands of hands. I say, OK. I don't disbelieve these people. They also always say that I am a sore loser hack. No, I'm not. I have a heavy education in math/stats and economics. I understand probability.

Good luck all. tulsa

Online, when you are on the winning streak if you begin increasing your bets, you begin to lose. If you are on the losing streak and begin increasing bets, you lose.

Recently my system withstood a losing streak of 16 straight loses followed
by 7 more after 2 wins. And another streak of 12 loses in a row twice with
4 of 5 hands winners in between the two 12's.

It is an increasing bets system, often doubling up, but sometimes lowering
the stake for a number of hands. Has profited over 10G the last 5 weeks
playing an average of about 2 hours a day. Usually i start with the smallest
size wagers {$1-5} & seldom bet over 100.

 

[Tulsa]

X-Files!! That is great! I'm glad someone is beating them. Keep it up. Sometime, if you get the chance I would love to hear where you play.

Well, if someone is getting my money back from the house, I'm glad it's you! I would also welcome any e-mail describing your betting progression/strategy, but if not I certainly understand. Take care and good luck. tulsa

 

[PokerKingJim]

To start - I am no rookie poker player. I am very successful at both live and online poker games. I have played countless upon countless hands of poker both online and live. There is absolutely no doubt in mind that online poker is rigged. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that players draw out far more often online than they do live. I think the major "rigging" is that the poker sites reward players who have recently made a deposit (usually new players or bad players that are re-upping) while at the same time pentalizing players that have recently made a withdrawal (usually the more skilled player cashing some of his roll out). This keeps the fish at the site. If the software was 100% legit, all of the poor players would be gone and the site would make less rake. There is absolutely no governing body what so ever to monitor these sites. They have no reason at all not to rig the software so that they maximize profits (what business is all about).

Again, I'm sure many still will not believe that it is rigged. This is just one man's opinion. I still play online regularly as even with the shoddy software, it's still a goldmine to the sharp player. You just have to make tough laydowns constantly after raising to the river, the opponent catches and reraises. Countless hours of live and online experience leaves NO doubt in my mind that it is rigged to some extent.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

what is amazing to me is in tournaments when after a few hours it seems like the software will weed guys out .

2 guys will have monster hands , like 3 aces vs full house .

those tourneys would last 10 hours if they didnt weed guys out from time to time.

although i suppose one could argue that dual monster hands are going to happen every now and then.

i'm sure one day an insider from a poker site will come forward and write a tell all book about his former site being rigged.