OMG.. UFO breaking news with Obama link..

[piccolo]

:nohead: sorry boys.. Nothing to do with obama. Just some recently de-classified files from the 40s...
interesting none the less, because for once you have some real actual proof of the govt actually chasing down ufos. (this should be fun for the x-files fanatics..

Now i guess the history channel will be blasting more UFO docus for a month..(kinda like how they do overkill on the anti christ bullshit every 4 years around this time)

U.S. pilot was ordered to shoot down UFO

Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:53am EDT

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By Peter Griffiths
LONDON (Reuters) - Two U.S. fighter planes were scrambled and ordered to shoot down an unidentified flying object (UFO) over the English countryside during the Cold War, according to secret files made public Monday.
One pilot said he was seconds away from firing 24 rockets at the object, which moved erratically and gave a radar reading like "a flying aircraft carrier."
The pilot, Milton Torres, now 77 and living in Miami, said it spent periods motionless in the sky before reaching estimated speeds of more than 7,600 mph.
After the alert, a shadowy figure told Torres he must never talk about the incident and he duly kept silent for more than 30 years.
His story was among dozens of UFO sightings in defense ministry files released at the National Archives in London.
In a written account, Torres described how he scrambled his F-86 D Saber jet in calm weather from the Royal Air Force base at Manston, Kent in May 1957.
"I was only a lieutenant and very much aware of the gravity of the situation. I felt very much like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest," he said.
"The order came to fire a salvo of rockets at the UFO. The authentication was valid and I selected 24 rockets.


http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49J4RO20081020?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

 

[Railbird]

Whats up with the giggling puppy, it reminds me of one of those CNN WHORES when they report on ufos. Giggling right through the truth, which is ufos exist.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

Whats up with the giggling puppy, it reminds me of one of those CNN WHORES when they report on ufos. Giggling right through the truth, which is ufos exist.

That doesnt sit well with your bible Railbird :drink:

 

[Preussen]

... the truth, which is ufos exist.

Have to agree with Fletch here, Ufos are not mentioned in the bible, are they? so how can their existence be explained?

 

[fletchisrhsm]

Im assuming he probably will pull out an obscure non descript quote, just like happens when your bring up dinosaurs, they talk about beasts being created on the 4th day or something.

 

[piccolo]

Have to agree with Fletch here, Ufos are not mentioned in the bible, are they? so how can their existence be explained?

The bible is a pretty big book.. It talks alot about very many things, from creation, miracles, angels and yes, poorly identified flying objects that one could technically argue are references to UFOs.

I dont have a side in this, just stating facts here. There are several mentions of crafts in the bible likened to UFOs, but described only in ways people could explain them in those days.

 

[Preussen]

The bible is a pretty big book.. It talks alot about very many things, from creation, miracles, angels and yes, poorly identified flying objects that one could technically argue are references to UFOs.

I dont have a side in this, just stating facts here. There are several mentions of crafts in the bible likened to UFOs, but described only in ways people could explain them in those days.

I admit I'm not a bible scholar. But the existence of UFOs would suggest the existence of non-human intelligent life developed higher than mankind. Does the bible allow for that?

 

[Kornholio]

I admit I'm not a bible scholar. But the existence of UFOs would suggest the existence of non-human intelligent life developed higher than mankind. Does the bible allow for that?

Many christians believe that the UFO/alien phenomenon is satanic in nature and has nothing at all to do with life from other planets. It is perceived to be the return of nephilim, a fallen angel/human hybrid which will be allowed by God to to exist again in the last days. Some of this belief comes from the book of Enoch, which isn't in the bible but is spoken of in the bible. Many christians believe aliens will be the "great delusion" that the whole world will buy when they see it with their own eyes...explaining the rapture of the church.= before the start of the tribulation.

 

[punter]

If the devil has spaceships should not God have them too?

That way they could have SAL talks.

 

[Preussen]

Many christians believe that the UFO/alien phenomenon is satanic in nature and has nothing at all to do with life from other planets. It is perceived to be the return of nephilim, a fallen angel/human hybrid which will be allowed by God to to exist again in the last days. Some of this belief comes from the book of Enoch, which isn't in the bible but is spoken of in the bible. Many christians believe aliens will be the "great delusion" that the whole world will buy when they see it with their own eyes...explaining the rapture of the church.= before the start of the tribulation.

Really? I would say that is some stretch, but so are most of the fundy beliefs, I guess...

 

[piccolo]

I admit I'm not a bible scholar. But the existence of UFOs would suggest the existence of non-human intelligent life developed higher than mankind. Does the bible allow for that?

Yes indeed it does. Infact, in many places it talks of non human highly intelligent life. demons, angels, beasts, spirits, machines bla bla bla bla!
Thats the bible.

Dont confuse the writings of the bible with the various interpretations of which millions exist around the world.


Not a bible scholor either. But i do know for a fact that no where in the bible is an argument made that intelligent life doesnt exist outside of earth.

 

[Preussen]

i do know for a fact that no where in the bible is an argument made that intelligent life doesnt exist outside of earth.

I'd assuem that if God had created (intelligent) life on other planets than the Earth then it should have been mentioned in the Genesis, shouldn't it?

 

[piccolo]

I'd assuem that if God had created (intelligent) life on other planets than the Earth then it should have been mentioned in the Genesis, shouldn't it?

Point one. (no where did i say the bible says there is life on "other planets". I said it mentioned intelligent life of different forms outside of humans.


Point two. The bible is not an encyclopedia. Same reason you wont find the theory of relativity of the 3rd law of thermo dynamics detailed in the bible. That doesnt mean the bible argues against both simply because they didnt bother to cover that topic



When the bible in no uncertain terms describes a chariot of fire that lifted up some prophet or other to the "heavens" i guess it would be upto you to decide if the bible is saying he was taken just high up enough to live on cloud or may be he was taken to some other planet to live ostensibly by himself (if one follows your logic to the letter.)

I could care less either way. Just the facts and common sense logic.

I dont have an opinion on Aliens, ufos or life on other planets. Once i am provided tangible proof, i will believe it.

 

[piccolo]

speaking of aliens.. I was looking for a alien great picture to make fun of some doofus asking people to believe in a miracle (that being Mccain/Palin winning)

While searching i came across this..uke1:

make of it what you will. I just find it interesting.

more pictures here.. (btw, this creature was apparently birthed by a cow, may be et came and raped the cow or something:missingte)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=alien+thailand&um=1&hl=en&safe=off

 

[fletchisrhsm]

I could care less either way. Just the facts and common sense logic.

I dont have an opinion on Aliens, ufos or life on other planets. Once i am provided tangible proof, i will believe it.

For all your common sense and logic (witch two lines of thinking that are not popular around here) i would assume you to not be too bright if you cant use said lines of thinking to make an obvious educated guess. If there is 100 thousand million stars in the Milky Way (just one galaxy) and there is over 100 Billion Galaxies (that is a very low estimation) can you imagine how many planets there must be? I mean if counting stars in the universe is like counting grains of sand on the beach, the amount of planets is staggering, and probably off the charts. Only an arrogant/ignorant human could be so naive. Im not picking on you, just breaking your balls.

 

[piccolo]

For all your common sense and logic (witch two lines of thinking that are not popular around here) i would assume you to not be too bright if you cant use said lines of thinking to make an obvious educated guess. If there is 100 thousand million stars in the Milky Way (just one galaxy) and there is over 100 Billion Galaxies (that is a very low estimation) can you imagine how many planets there must be? I mean if counting stars in the universe is like counting grains of sand on the beach, the amount of planets is staggering, and probably off the charts. Only an arrogant/ignorant human could be so naive. Im not picking on you, just breaking your balls.

A very interesting question. Sounds logical that because there are hundreds of billions planets chances are, there must be life on one of them..right?:think2:

Well the huge problem with your mathematical/scientific calculation is that it defies that little known 3rd law of thermodynamics. (and this is only for the non creationist believers). The law pretty much states that you simply cant get order out of chaos. And the problem with chaos is well, it becomes more chaotic and problematic when you add more variables. (ie..billions of galaxies and planets etc)


Now if you are a creationist of any kind (by that i mean your believe in God, Allah, buddha, Gulud1g1t, or even intelligent design) then by all means its makes sense to believe in life outside of our planet. And if you believe in such, then logic is not the strength of your argument. Dogma is!


All in all, i am saying to you that your argument that life must exist outside of earth on other planets is acceptable, but not if you claim logic.


One must choose where the science fails and dogma is the answer or where the dogmatic belief fails and science provides the answer. (all i ask is that you stay true to the science and not turn it into a dogma as well)

 

[fletchisrhsm]

A very interesting question. Sounds logical that because there are hundreds of billions planets chances are, there must be life on one of them..right?:think2:

Well the huge problem with your mathematical/scientific calculation is that it defies that little known 3rd law of thermodynamics. (and this is only for the non creationist believers). The law pretty much states that you simply cant get order out of chaos. And the problem with chaos is well, it becomes more chaotic and problematic when you add more variables. (ie..billions of galaxies and planets etc)


Now if you are a creationist of any kind (by that i mean your believe in God, Allah, buddha, Gulud1g1t, or even intelligent design) then by all means its makes sense to believe in life outside of our planet. And if you believe in such, then logic is not the strength of your argument. Dogma is!


All in all, i am saying to you that your argument that life must exist outside of earth on other planets is acceptable, but not if you claim logic.


One must choose where the science fails and dogma is the answer or where the dogmatic belief fails and science provides the answer. (all i ask is that you stay true to the science and not turn it into a dogma as well)

What i described to you above is the Fermi paradox. Although i prefer the Drake equation witch is more a focus on the notion that species will arise and then die out. After 15 Billion years, i would say this is highly probable. So based on this, i would assume its a scientific guess that we are not alone. As far as Dogma goes, none for me. Im a believer in no man made religion. Doe i believe in ID? Not really, but i wouldnt rule it out, seems pretty intricate, the geometry in particularly of life. I may choose to call science God, how about Science as my Messiah? Words and language is the ultimate seduction.

 

[quantumleap]

"Chariots of the Gods" by Eric van Daniken presents some interesting viewpoints of the possibility of UFOs being present in the Bible.

 

[piccolo]

What i described to you above is the Fermi paradox. Although i prefer the Drake equation witch is more a focus on the notion that species will arise and then die out. After 15 Billion years, i would say this is highly probable. So based on this, i would assume its a scientific guess that we are not alone. As far as Dogma goes, none for me. Im a believer in no man made religion. Doe i believe in ID? Not really, but i wouldnt rule it out, seems pretty intricate, the geometry in particularly of life. I may choose to call science God, how about Science as my Messiah? Words and language is the ultimate seduction.

I had to come back to this thread because of the childish comments you made in another thread about my responses to you.

No where in this thread do you provide any valid arguments to counter my points. I properly countered all your points and indicated all my reasoning.

The best you could do is come back with a response that you can best explain as a scientific guess! I am sorry, but a scientific guess is no better than religious guess, astrological guess, or whatever you might wanna call it.

If you cant prove it, then it sure as hell isnt fact. Matter of fact if the very laws of science you claim defy your paradox then buddy you are as good as a guy who believes a giant in the sky with a beard credted the world.
Logic, i repeat would not be your strong suite!

 

[Loren78]

UFO's are simply aircraft technology 100 years ahead of what the public has been privy too...They are the next boogey man to replace the Terrorists...