Ok poker experts, how dumb am I?

[Snookslayer]

It's early in the tournament and everyone is fairly even (around $1,500). First to act bets $150, next to act raises $200 on top. Everyone folds and I'm last to decide (I'm big blind) .... I'm holding pocket Queens.

I fold. hno:

Sure as sh*t a Queen lands on the flop and these guys are both all-in before the hand is over. I folded mostly in fear that the first bettor could re-raise all in which I wasn't willing to do with just pocket Queens.

So... am I a donkey delux or was I being wisely cautious? What was the correct move in that situation?

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

If you hadnt flopped the Q would u have won? I got a feeling the answer is No. A raise and a reraise is not usually 10/10 vs JJ.... And u will flop that Q , i dunno for sure sumthing like 1 out of 8 times.....so u call a raise and a reraise lets say 10 times. Once u flop QQ and maybe 1 more you have the best hand AND it holds.....so u win 2 out of 10 on avg..
Cant look at the results of any 1 hand but what the best move is in the long run...at 20% Good Fold..

 

[Snookslayer]

If you hadnt flopped the Q would u have won? I got a feeling the answer is No. A raise and a reraise is not usually 10/10 vs JJ.... And u will flop that Q , i dunno for sure sumthing like 1 out of 8 times.....so u call a raise and a reraise lets say 10 times. Once u flop QQ and maybe 1 more you have the best hand AND it holds.....so u win 2 out of 10 on avg..

So you're saying that I probably made the correct poker move.?. Wow, I guess I'm not that dumm after all.

 

[Snookslayer]

I'm a conservative player - to a fault. That situation seemed borderline play or fold to me, but I chickened out.

Good to hear it wasn't technically a bad move.

 

[TheRightSide]

WTF are you crazy you needed to ATLEAST call here. How do you ever plan on winning anything with laydowns like this. I just don't understand. Why even play if you won't even see a flop with Q's.



Call here and if opener goes all in than you fold. Playing like that will get you steamrolled. How much was the blinds?

 

[SaltyVeteran]

I think the better question is what is the buy in that you're playing?

If this is a low stakes tourney you are giving these clowns wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit and folding is awful imo.

 

[Boxer22]

Absolutely terrible lay down. You have to atleast see a flop here or re-raise all in. I would have put the first raise maybe on 10-10 or J-J then the re-raiser on AQ or AK and then gone from there. If you have QQ and your not willing to put in just over 20% of your stack to see a flop maybe you shouldnt be playing. But like someone else asked how much was the buyin?

 

[Snookslayer]

The table was so cheap that I'm embarressed to say it.... $4.00. Blinds at the time were only $30 or so (like I said the game had pretty much just started).

I play in those cheesy Bodog sit-n-go's where the top 5 get paid, so playing conservative usually pays off. Just sit back and let the players knock each other out. Regardless, it was a tough lay down. Obviously I wouldn't have layed down AA or KK, but QQ was right on the edge.

 

[TheRightSide]

The table was so cheap that I'm embarressed to say it.... $4.00. Blinds at the time were only $30 or so (like I said the game had pretty much just started).

I play in those cheesy Bodog sit-n-go's where the top 5 get paid, so playing conservative usually pays off. Just sit back and let the players knock each other out. Regardless, it was a tough lay down. Obviously I wouldn't have layed down AA or KK, but QQ was right on the edge.

You will never never ever be a winning player. You may as well just stop playing. Whats the point in playing those. There is no fun in just folding.

 

[Snookslayer]

You will never never ever be a winning player. You may as well just stop playing. Whats the point in playing those. There is no fun in just folding.

I don't claim to be a skilled poker player - that much is obvious. But technically, I am a winning player because I've been playing Bodog poker for over 3 years now and my account is way up ("way up" being relative to my cheap account). In those cheesy games where the top 5 get paid, I'd guess that I finish in the money about 80-85% of the time. I keep 4 games running at once and all I do is fold, fold, fold... I almost never bluff (I do occassionally throw a cheap bet out, but it rarely works). It takes a lot of patience waiting for the can't-lose-nuts.

I will give you guys credit for having the skill and the guts to play aggressive poker. I can't do it.

 

[festeringZit]

No way I fold QQ in that position.

 

[Aladdin]

I shove all day there and its not really close.

 

[Snookslayer]

When players are throwing that much money in the pot that early - especially two players, I assume one of them has to be holding AA, KK, or AK. Looking back, I don't remember what they end up having. Once I saw that Q hit the flop, I was too steamed at myself.

If that second player hadn't raised I definately would have called the first player's $150 bet.

 

[shdw01]

Last night I had TT...same kind of thing happened except I was on the bubble and the two short stacks got all in before me....I folded and they both had AK.....

....split, I'm still on the bubble and I would've won.


Just keep in mind while you might think AA and KK, they could be holding the same thing making your hand even more dominant.

 

[Aladdin]

When players are throwing that much money in the pot that early - especially two players, I assume one of them has to be holding AA, KK, or AK. Looking back, I don't remember what they end up having. Once I saw that Q hit the flop, I was too steamed at myself.

If that second player hadn't raised I definately would have called the first player's $150 bet.

You must be new to poker. I played every day for a year playing 10 tables at a time as an online pro, and in this spot you have to get your chips in. The quality of players in these tournaments is so bad, that they could have a very wide range of hands from 88 to jj or aq ak aj etc..

You are way ahead of their range right there with only one raise and a small reraise.... Id say about 70% of online players will 3 bet the hands above.. With the high chance of people repopping light You need to at the very least call preflop

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

" If that second player hadn't raised I definately would have called the first player's $150 bet "

That would be wrong also. If its 1 early raiser calling tells you nothing. You should raise. For 1 because someone behind you could still shove or call with trash so you want to make sure its heads up...

Same thing with the original, if it wasnt early in the tourny and i thought the 2nd raiser was reraising weak then id just go on and shove PF. The 1st guy should fold and then ur heads up with the weak guy....But early in a tourny with no reads on anyone, unless i really thought i was a weak player myself and the QQ might be my best opportunity im folding...

 

[Snookslayer]

The quality of players in these tournaments is so bad, that they could have a very wide range of hands from 88 to jj or aq ak aj etc..

That's true. Not only are there donkeys like me : ) ... but I've seen complete insanity from many players. I guess with the table being so cheap, people are a lot more willing to play aggressively with bad hands.

 

[ProPokerPlayer]

Even against 2 players as weak as AJos and any pair 22+ the QQ is only a 52% fav....put player 1 on any 2 broadway cards and it drops to 51%...any 2 broadway cards and a pr 10/10+ and AQos+ ...QQ drops to 42%

Passing up small edges to wait on bigger edges is proper strategy for good players. A weak player should never pass up a 52/48 shot i guess but as u can see , without reads you cant narrow their range down far enough to get that...

 

[Snookslayer]

" If that second player hadn't raised I definately would have called the first player's $150 bet "

That would be wrong also. If its 1 early raiser calling tells you nothing. You should raise. For 1 because someone behind you could still shove or call with trash so you want to make sure its heads up...

So y'all are the guys who are always raising me off of hands. Bastards!

 

[Snookslayer]

Even against 2 players as weak as AJos and any pair 22+ the QQ is only a 52% fav....put player 1 on any 2 broadway cards and it drops to 51%...any 2 broadway cards and a pr 10/10+ and AQos+ ...QQ drops to 42%

Passing up small edges to wait on bigger edges is proper strategy for good players. A weak player should never pass up a 52/48 shot i guess but as u can see , without reads you cant narrow their range down far enough to get that...

See, being just a 52% favorite seems way too risky that early. If I was already in the money, then I could understanding going for it. But at that point, nobody had been knocked out and my main goal is to make the top five.