Now has anybody seen this story from the anti American media?(NYTimes ,cnn,abc,bbc,nbc)

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Saturday, June 7, 2003
"Looted" Museum Treasures Found in Vault

Almost all of those priceless irreplaceable artifacts the media couldn't wait to tell us had been stolen by looters under the eyes of U.S. forces who blithely looked away while they were being stolen had not been taken after all - they were hidden away for safe keeping in a secret vault.

The alleged failure of U.S. forces to prevent the Baghdad Museum being plundered of a reported 170,000 items created a media firestorm, with anti-war journals reporting hysterically that some of history's most important relics had been stolen because the U.S. military was too busy fighting in the streets around the museum to halt the looting.

It now turns out that almost all the important artifacts are safe and sound.

"Earlier this week, 179 boxes that contained the vast majority of the museum's exhibition collection were discovered safe in a secret vault," the Bush administration said in a statement, according to Reuters news agency .

"The discovery of these boxes containing nearly 8,000 of the most important items from the museum's collection means that the work of the investigation team is drawing to a close."

Moreover, it has been shown that many of the items reported looted have been also been found, with some having been taken home by staff for safekeeping, and others hidden elsewhere, including the contents of the secret vault. Reuters says that Museum staff members had at first refused to reveal the location of the vault until U.S. troops had left Iraq, but later relented.

In another find, priceless historical jewelry, the so called "Treasure of Nimrud," was found in a flooded Central Bank vault on Thursday, Reuters reports.

The artifacts, hundreds of gold and gem-studded pieces from the ancient kingdom of Assyria, were found by U.S. investigators after the vaults below the gutted shell of the looted bank building were drained.

The treasures, which had been discovered between 1988 and 1990 in ancient royal tombs below an Assyrian palace dating from the ninth century BC, had been feared lost. But U.S. investigators learned they had been placed in a central bank vault in the early 1990s, possibly to protect them during the 1991 Gulf War.

"They were never lost," acting Central Bank Governor Faleh Salman told Reuters "We knew all along they were there. It just took a bit of time to get at them because of the flooding."

The U.S. investigators said the Nimrud treasure seemed to be in good condition. In the drained vaults the U.S. team found the bodies of looters apparently killed in a shootout with rival gangs or bank authorities trying to safeguard the treasure.

Most of the media which couldn't wait to blame the U.S. military for the alleged looting, have yet to bother to headline the latest findings as they did with their phony looting stories. After all, it makes the U.S. military look good, just about the last thing the liberal media wants.
 

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That's good news to hear, although the numbers cited there are very much off. Since it's now "only" 3,000 pieces missing it's okay right? I remember the morning of September 11th, they were throwing around numbers as high as 25,000 that could be dead, and that the "minimum" would be 10,000. Since it ended up being "only about 3,000" we should just let it go, right?

I love how you bandy about the term "anti-American" as if it meant anything to you. I cannot imagine anything more anti-American than being a snipped-dick sycophant who allows himself to be blinded to the traitorous, treacherous regime currently in control of America. You would have probably called yourself a "patriot" two hundred years ago as well -- a patriotic supporter of that era's King George, dismissing all dissent as "anti-British."


Phaedrus
 

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Phaedrus,

You have to understand that anything or anyone that "Patriot" disagrees with is Anti-American in his eyes.
 

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"I love how you bandy about the term "anti-American" as if it meant anything to you. I cannot imagine anything more anti-American than being a snipped-dick sycophant who allows himself to be blinded to the traitorous, treacherous regime currently in control of America. You would have probably called yourself a "patriot" two hundred years ago as well -- a patriotic supporter of that era's King George, dismissing all dissent as "anti-British."

Ouch. One suggestion though - can you tone down the vocab for the King George supporters? They struggle with BIG words
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NYTimes ,cnn,abc,bbc,nbc: anti-american media,

this is a parody for sure, i am not buying it that patriot is for real, that's the most dumbass thing i ve heard i a long time, he is probably some politics forum ghost who likes to act as agent provocateur. No one can be that dumb to call the times, abc, nbc and cnn anti-american.
 

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I love the analogy beetween todays "patriots" and the loyalists of the revolution. It is a very solid point, and points out how dissention is not in anyway un-american.

In my opinion, the recent trend of patriotism here in America, is blind, sheepish and dangerous. Unfortunatly, with the governments influence on the mass media (to call those aformentioned publications anti-american is absurd), and the treasonous label given to anyone who spews forth even the slightest disagreement with our policies, makes any resistance futile for all practical purposes. THe idea that our leaders should be held accountable for thier actions is not one that is met with a wealth of public support. According to many Americans, PAtriotism means to go against the very principles of which America was founded.

Its no wonder I feel like I am living in a George Orwell novel.

SO go ahead and wax poetic about your precious "patriotism." Boycott the dixie Chicks Tim Robbins and dont forget to buy a bunch more American Flags. Your going to need a lot if you want to continue to hide behind them. If they are out of them at K-mart, I think I know where you can find another. Its wrapped like a blindfold, right over your eyes.
 

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Actually I had seen that, on BBC News, and had planned on posting it as a response to my own thread "Maybe Troops Would Notice if They Looted an Oil Well", posted in April based on news form the Toronto Star, as the BBC story from yesterday clearly contradicts the Star story.

But what this story (this doesn't actually read like a mainstream item, and I can't find it at NewsMax -- what's your source on it?) seems to extrapolate from the loss of a scant 3,000 priceless, irreplacable artifacts is that all stories about looting and mayhem in the streets of Baghdad and Basra are to be dismissed. This premise is ludicrous and itself dismissable. Check my original post linked above for Robert Fisk's "Burning the History of Iraq," an on-the-ground, first-hand account of events that unfolded in the wake of America's initial refusal to follow through with what it started in Iraq.

And even the US military acknowledges that a tremendous amount of looting was going on -- in fact, as I posted here, Defence Undersecretary Douglas Feith went so far as to suggest that it was looters that made off with the notoriously hard-to-find WMD.

I will concede that 'leadership' [sic] under the civilian appointee in Iraq does seem to have a better grip on the problem, but the fact of the matter remains that the problem need not exist at all -- we had no legitimate reason to invade Iraq, as it posed no threat to the United States or it's interests. That we are now finally mopping up the mess we made is hardly commendable; you wouldn't give your kid an extra $ 5.00 on his allowance for sweeping up the pieces of a vase he broke being careless.


Phaedrus


PS. Regarding my prognostication on what sort of "patriot" you would have made in a century long gone, Patriot, I found yet another amply fitting quote from my beloved Thomas Paine :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let them call me rebel and welcome, I feel no concern for it; but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul by swearing allegiance to one whose character is that of a sottish, stupid, stubborn, worthless, brutish man.

from "The American Crisis" (1776)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO, one of us is a rebel and welcomes the charge; the other has made a whore of his soul by swearing allegiance to a sottish &c. man. Can you guess who I think is whom?
 

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If you guys were locked up in a room together for one hour, I've got money on patriot being the only one walking out.

Too much hate on both sides here.

My opinion, it would be ignornant to not acknowledge the points on each side. The part that is most difficult is trying to "see" the US from people's views all around the world. Until we learn to do that, hate will continue to drive the world.

Why isn't it up to the rest of the world to try and understand the US better? Again, in my opinion, the US projects itself into every market in the world. In other words, everyone is forced to deal with us. We do not have to deal with, on a daily basis, the businesses and customs from other countries, at least not on the same level.

Just look how upset some americans get by the proliferation of Japanese cars in the US market.

We have to start looking at things on a greater scale. We have different beliefs, customs and religions. We have to respect that. That is a nearly impossible goal but it is the one we should be working towards.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you guys were locked up in a room together for one hour, I've got money on patriot being the only one walking out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An interesting assessment, as you know nothing about either of us aside from political views and that at some point we were probably both interested in gambling. I don't get into the childishness of this sort of chest-pounding, so I'll just indulge you and anyone else and say, "Sure, why not. I bet Patriot can whip my ass."
icon_rolleyes.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Too much hate on both sides here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't hate Patriot. I hate the practice of walking around with blinders on, because it is folly -- and it is unfortunately not just a personal folly. Enough people with blinders on can have disastrous results for everyone, as can be witnessed by the current condition in America.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My opinion, it would be ignornant to not acknowledge the points on each side. The part that is most difficult is trying to "see" the US from people's views all around the world. Until we learn to do that, hate will continue to drive the world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's "points of view," like whether or not Matrix:Reloaded lived up to the original, and then there's "attitudes which when practiced en masse bring about the ruin of a once-great nation" such as the neo-con plan for repaving the universe into one giant suburb, or the liberal plan of boxing up everything of value in America and shipping it off to some shitass African backwater that won't produce for itself.

"If I am to be called a raidical, let me be called a radical for reason."

--Ayn Rand

The political and social culture in the US is in a state of viral chaos. Everyone wishes to impose his viewpoint on everyone else. When my nearest thing to a rallying cry would be, "Why don't you leave me alone and mind your own damned business?" I seriously doubt that any thinking person could consider himself of being in danger of me opressing him with my views. I don't care what the man next door does, so long as he keeps it to himself -- but keeping it to ourselves is a courtesy all but forgotten in the US, and in the world at lare for that matter.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why isn't it up to the rest of the world to try and understand the US better? Again, in my opinion, the US projects itself into every market in the world. In other words, everyone is forced to deal with us. We do not have to deal with, on a daily basis, the businesses and customs from other countries, at least not on the same level.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The US' enormous prosperity has brought both good and ill to the world, but the productivity that made it possible is nothing but good. Only foolish, bitter people look at a McDonald's in Lagos and say, "Oi, the US is pushing their fatty doodoo burgers on us, snide bastards!" The McDonald's wouldn't be there if enough people in Lagos didn't want it to warrant it, and you can rest assured that if enough economic incentive exists to shut it down, it will be done.

The US also has the single largest import market in the world, a fact which I seldom hear Third World anti-globalisation hacks whining about. So many countries' economies are propped up on our own it is ridiculous, but you seldom hear a guy strolling through Circuit City grumbling, "Those god damned Japanese are always trying to force their world view on us. Just look at these televisions! Pure arrogance!"

Abroad, people see a golden arch, a Nike swoosh or a Starbucks logo and think "encroachment." Here, we see a Porsche logo and think, "I bet that guy gets laid a lot." In our vastly multicultural and diverse society I guess we are simply not xenophobic enough to really appreciate the "point of view" that a healthy trade economy is a sign of evil.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Just look how upset some americans get by the proliferation of Japanese cars in the US market.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never heard one non-union person younger than my parents bitch about the proliferation of Japanese cars in the American market. Given the fact that every major Japanese dealer now has production, distribution and finance facilities here in the States that provide tens of thousands of American jobs, pay millions and millions of American tax dollars, and drastically reduce the real-dollar cost of owning a Japanese automobile, I would only expect to hear such idiocy from unioners, old people, and dumbass neo-conservative lapdogs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We have to start looking at things on a greater scale. We have different beliefs, customs and religions. We have to respect that. That is a nearly impossible goal but it is the one we should be working towards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have respect for people's ideology, religion, customs, etc. A belief is not an action. Up to the extent that your belief leads you to take actions which do not encroach on my liberty you and I will get along great. But when you reach that point, you will be the next to know. That is not a "hateful" attitude. On the contrary, that's as laissez-faire as I can possibly muster.

My problem with the Cult of Bush is that they are so blinded by their devotion to criticism of dissent that they no longer see the path that they are taking. All things being equal I'd prefer a Republican in the White House too, if the only other choice offered me was a Democrat. But this particular Republican has betrayed the very concepts in which our country was founded by adopting a policy of pre-emptive war against nations which have been demonstrated to pose no threat (I'm not just talking about Iraq; for those lapdogs who just started typing your rebuttal I recommend you Google President Bush's September 2002 address to Congress outlining this approach and give it some thought.) He has taken steps to erode personal privacy and freedom to a drastic extent (no extent is acceptable, but Bush has gone to an extreme which would have made FDR proud.) The man is not only unfit to lead, he has betrayed his country in a manner which dwarfs simple ideological traitors like John Walker Lindh. The only "alternate point of view" I'd entertain with respect to an enemy of liberty would be one that offered a clearer shot.


Phaedrus
 

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Phaed and others,OK I'll concede to you that calling these media outlets anti-american may be overstating it.But they are certainley anti-Bush. At least I'll admit when I overstate somthing.I mean in the first place it was Iraqys looting Iraqys.Looting goes on in LA,Philly, the Bronx.
Good example this morning is how NBC is cumming all over them selves while THEY promote H Clintons book...I change the channel to Fox and they are covering the FBI draining a swamp possibly linked to the Anthrax attacks.
Once again the media is doing the Clintons bidding, while ommiting the firestorm over the museam lootings that weren't.That they started.
Phaed thats my whole point, you don't see the story anywhere..It is at newsmax.You can do more research but like I said before, newsmax is good enough for me.
 

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In my opinion it is more than likely that Pat is, as JackDee pointed out, just an instigator. Otherwise he's as far out there as extremists like Al Queda, just on a different point in the spectrum.
 

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"Phaed and others,OK I'll concede to you that calling these media outlets anti-american may be overstating it."

"But they are certainley anti-Bush."

Exactly! It is a civic duty to question the government when it is wrong. Bush would just assume throw out the constitution and write a new one modeled after "1984" if he could get away with it.
 

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Phaed, Just another thing I have stated before I go by the nickname Patriot because of my favorite sports team..not because I am some righteous constitutionalist.
It comes down to whos side you believe...All I know is that Bush's aggressive policy toward terrorism has procuced 0 major terrorist attacks on this country.Thats all that counts
 

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So you feel there is NO threat of a terrorist attack in the States any longer?

Is this sense of security you've developed worth the lose of civil liberties under which our great nation was founded?
 

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Kaya, go back and read some of Clintons and Dasheles speeches regarding Iraq back in 98...Do you think that the media would be half as critical if Clinton grew some balls and followed through with his rhetoric?...Not hardly..They hate Bush and despise his politics and hate his success.
As far as the "Patriot act" I agree with you but I have not and don't know of anybody who has been effected by this...Speaking of goverment control.How about inflated taxes? How about the thoughtn police? How about hate crimes?Are there love crimes?..Why not?How about busing ? how about affirmitive action? How about lack of school choice?
 

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I agree that if Clinton had taken a harder stance on terrorism he would have recieved more support. By many he was considered to be an intelligent diplomat we could trust to represent us.
On the other hand, no matter how true or not each of us personally feel this to be, Bush is considered by many to be unintelligent, imprudent and there's a certain fear he'll walk on his c**k every time he takes action.
 

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Well only time will tell.Anything that goes wrong from now on will be painted Bushes fault.
He is not afraid to make move and now the world knows it.
 

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Hey Patriot,

You and I actually having civil debate this morning. I can't hardly believe it, lol. Seriously, nice debating with you.
 

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