My Bank Wire got denied!....

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It's very simple really. The final recipient is the key in a wire transfer. Wire transfers go through two or three different banks before reaching the named recipient. The final recipient then becomes coded, just like with the credit card rejections. Not difficult to do at all.

A couple of problems with this.

One is that the final recipient you are talking about is a bank. So when you send a wire, it goes through a big overseas bank to the small final destination bank.

The final account number is determined by a TEXT field called special instructions. This is not a sort code, or an account number, it is a TEXT field.

So, unless as the original poster states, they are going to ban ALL TRANSACTIONS to every bank in the country of regulated gambling, there is no way to know what is gambling and what isnt. It is similar to sending a WU to Tom Jones in Manilla. "Tom Jones" is a text field, and does not have anything to do with the routing of the funds.

I promise you, I have very close contacts in the bankwire sector and have become extremely familiar with how they work and their flaws. There are many flaws, but the system you suggest is not possible under current technology.
 

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You get insulted because you act like a spoiled brat. They knew where the money was going. I am not a detective nor I am I familiar with this process...I am sure the bank knows more than I do and most everyone else (except you V) but for whatever reason, they knew where the money was going. Accept and deal with it. I have. We do not have the specifics they do. Is it inconceivble they knew where the money was going? Of course not. They knew.

Thanks for this.

I am now convinced that you are indeed making up this whole story for a look at me attention getter.

When you post the book and bank I will re-examine my opinion, but this response is surely not from someone who has a good understanding of how things work or even someone who wants to know why it happened. Surely, you would want to understand why it happened.

Your response of "just accept it, they know more than us, no specifics necessary" reeks of a hidden agenda.

This is not a personal battle, so far you have insulted me and I wont get in to that with you, I am basing this off of the facts of what you presented here. It doesnt add up, and unless you present more I will maintain my opinion.

GL
 

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A couple of problems with this.

One is that the final recipient you are talking about is a bank. So when you send a wire, it goes through a big overseas bank to the small final destination bank.

The final account number is determined by a TEXT field called special instructions. This is not a sort code, or an account number, it is a TEXT field.

So, unless as the original poster states, they are going to ban ALL TRANSACTIONS to every bank in the country of regulated gambling, there is no way to know what is gambling and what isnt. It is similar to sending a WU to Tom Jones in Manilla. "Tom Jones" is a text field, and does not have anything to do with the routing of the funds.

I promise you, I have very close contacts in the bankwire sector and have become extremely familiar with how they work and their flaws. There are many flaws, but the system you suggest is not possible under current technology.

When the law was signed on October 13, 2006, I wrote a thread on the potential loss of bank transfers following the 270 period. Let's agree to disagree at this time and see what happens in the future and rediscuss this issue down the line. Time will tell us whether or not the banks conform to the law.
 

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When the law was signed on October 13, 2006, I wrote a thread on the potential loss of bank transfers following the 270 period. Let's agree to disagree at this time and see what happens in the future and rediscuss this issue down the line. Time will tell us whether or not the banks conform to the law.

OMT - I think it would be helpful in light of this thread to explain how a bankwire actually works - something most dont know but should.

The bankwire system is archaic. Every country does its own thing, and only in the last 20 years have there been efforts to unify the procedures, but there still are many unique flaws. The first one is that there are no tracking numbers, so you kind of send it and hope.

The IBAN number is the key to the routing of the funds. The IBAN number contains all of the pertinent information on an international wire, and the numbers imbedded in it are often duplicated elsewhere on the wire. Here is a key to the IBAN number:

If you look at the IBAN number, it contains a lot of information:
AABB CCCC DDDD DDEE EEEE EE
A = Country Code
B = Mathematically generated check digit (not intelligent info)
C = Bank Alpha Code
D = Sort Code
E = Account Number

If you go back and look at any wire instructions, they give you the IBAN number and also give you the bank, sort code, and account numbers even though they are already imbedded in the IBAN.

If you have the IBAN, the money gets routed to the account number that is the last 8 digits. The key to this whole thing, and the reason banks fought this bill so hard, is that the account number listed is the account number of the BANK.

To explain that - the money goes through one of a handfull of huge clearing house banks - and then goes in to an account number of the beneficiary bank. So in other words, the bank in the caribbean that you are sending the money to is an account holder at the big clearing house bank. The bankwire instructions end when the beneficiary bank has your money.

How does the beneficiary bank know who's funds and what account at their bank to credit? By the "special instructions" field.

So when you think about this it is incredibly archaic, and not so different from a WU transfer. The name you put on a WU transfer is not critical to the transfer or the routing of the funds, it is the "special instructions" on your bank wire.

So now to your solution of maintaining a list of banned gambling accounts. How would they do this>? The second one got banned, all the sportsbook would do is change the "special instructions" to say anything they wanted, and something their bank knew was them, and you have essentially changed the name from "tom jones" to "bill harris".

This is why the banks fought the bill so hard. The bill imposes criminal liability on employees who have absolutely no way to enforce this under the current bankwire system. And this is why it is my opinion that there is no time in the near future that the whole world will change the worldwide bankwire system to accommodate online gambling legislation in the US.

It is very hard (impossible) to suggest a system that could work using the current bankwire model.
 

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I have learned more about bank wires in this thread than I have ever on this site...good info guys.
 

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BTW - if you want to do something interesting - go to the banks website of the sportsbook you are trying to wire.

Then dig around at the bank website for bankwire info. They will have a section that tells you how to send yourself a wire at that bank if you have an account there from the US.

You will notice that the instructions are identical except for the "special instructions" field, which is where you would put your personal account number instead of the sportsbooks.

So essentially, for the thousands of legitimate businesses and personal accounts at that bank, the only difference in wire instructions between them and a sportsbook is the special instructions field.

Im all ears if someone wants to tell me how a bankwire would get denied knowing all of this.......
 

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key here is that the bank is probably playing it safe, they have guidelines and know where the 'high risk for certain activities are' and they are not going to give the whole story to the customer

its also true that in the same way that the accounts of neteller were tracked the same can be done to any deposit method (and it has been done ever since 1998 when they came up with the codes for gaming transactions.......without getting into more details)

bank can do as they please as long as they dont do anything illegal and they can easily claim that they suspect that 'x bank' is home to a vast number of egaming institutions, everyone knows where they are so its no secret there

however if NO bank from the US would deal with this 'bank' then they could simply not do any business in US dollar currency which is why I suspect that is unlikely
 

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The final account number is determined by a TEXT field called special instructions. This is not a sort code, or an account number, it is a TEXT field.

I just wanted to add a note here and clarify that while this is MOSTLY true if the bank is big enough it doesnt exactly work that way

small banks in the Carribean work like that

but bigger offshore banks in Europe or elsewhere do not have the familiar "for final credit to x"

I have seen quite a few bankwire instructions and when the bank is small/small-medium it works exactly as Vanzack said
 

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How does the beneficiary bank know who's funds and what account at their bank to credit? By the "special instructions" field.

Nice explanation vanzack. However when I wire funds to William Hill it goes into the account of William Hill but the only way they know it is my money for my William Hill account is by the special instructions. So the coding identifies William Hill.

Your explanation suggests an addition level where you send money to the account that XYZ bank maintains at ABC bank. Then the special instructions identify the corporate account held by XYZ bank and also the corporate client. Is this correct?
 

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Banks don't know whether a bank wire is going to or coming from a sportsbook.

All major banks have risk departments and some have clearly put people in those departments in a spot to look for sportsbook/casino transactions.

I am sure some have algorithms that look for X amount of money in X number of transactions and certain patterns (Friday afternoon, etc) that makes it more likely than not that an account is a sportsbook.

When Chase denied a wire I was to receive, they called me. They asked who it was from. I told them a friend. They said they could not accept it and would return it to the sender. I said ok and closed my accounts. The sender had the money back same day and sent it to another bank for me...

There will be some headaches here and there, but most wires will go through.

Sean
 

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Nice explanation vanzack. However when I wire funds to William Hill it goes into the account of William Hill but the only way they know it is my money for my William Hill account is by the special instructions. So the coding identifies William Hill.

Your explanation suggests an addition level where you send money to the account that XYZ bank maintains at ABC bank. Then the special instructions identify the corporate account held by XYZ bank and also the corporate client. Is this correct?

in Williams Hill case the bank they use most likely (me asuming) is a bank in the UK or the isles of the British Channel, those banks are huge and their wire instructions identify DIRECTLY the account of William Hill in this bank, there is no such "for further credit to the account of abc management " (those lines are something common in smaller banks located in the Carribean for example or Central America)

in Europe the IBAN maps one-to-one directly to a corporate account
 

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All major banks have risk departments and some have clearly put people in those departments in a spot to look for sportsbook/casino transactions.

I am sure some have algorithms that look for X amount of money in X number of transactions and certain patterns (Friday afternoon, etc) that makes it more likely than not that an account is a sportsbook.


Sean


and of course they also hold a historical and the from>>>to transactions that have been identified/or are suspicious of being a gaming transfer......should someone else try the same story after Sean's transaction was flagged it will go the same way
 

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Love how vanzack posts a brilliant logical post and TB instantly shuts up.....
 

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Im assuming the silence means we will never know the bank and book?

If this whole story is true, it is the only information that can actually help readers.
 

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The bank wire I got stuck was from Trojan to Chase. I do not know what they labeled it (It may well have been labeled bettrojan)

They then re-sent it to a different bank from a "restaurant" name and it went through no problem.
 

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Cleo others have said the same thing. These are now being denied because of the new law. I told the truth. I also talked it over will WIlheim over whether I should disclose the bank. I told the truth and make my own decisions. I will not cave in to peopel like you to prove anything. I have nothing to prove. Thank you sir.
 
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so can you remind me what was the motive of starting the thread? don't you want to help others from trying the same thing with the same bank?
 

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so can you remind me what was the motive of starting the thread? don't you want to help others from trying the same thing with the same bank?


There was no major motive. I remember feeling sad and pissed and wanted to discuss here at the RX. Nothing more. No way in hell would i make that up.
 

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