A security official at the bomb scene
BLAST ROCKS HOTEL
At least 10 people have been killed and more are feared dead in a car bomb attack at a luxury tourist hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta.
Reuters news agency described the blast at the JW Marriott Hotel as a "huge explosion" with cars burning outside.
Around 34 people have been injured, including three foreigners, hospital officials said.
It comes as the trial draws to a close of an Islamic militant who is accused of being behind last year's Bali bombings.
A report by the AFP news agency suggested three explosions may have occurred.
Police said the explosion came from the basement and was a car bomb.
Other reports suggest it could have been a suicide bomber.
The blast blew out windows
Hotel bosses said staff and guests had been evacuated before the blast, which happened during the busy lunch hour.
Smoke and flames are still pouring from the rubble.
Several floors of the hotel were damaged and windows blown out.
The hotel is popular with foreign tourists, businessmen and politicians because it is located near several embassies in a business complex.
Crowds gather around blast scene
October's Bali bombings killed more than 200 people, mainly foreign holidaymakers.
The trial of militant Amrozi bin Nurhashym, who is accused of masterminding the attack, is expected to end on Thursday after several weeks.
If found guilty he could be sentenced to death.
He is a member of Jemaah Islamiah, an Islamic group seeking to set up a pan-Islamic state in southeast Asia.
The group is accused of having links to al Qaeda and had threatened to carry out more attacks in Indonesia.
BLAST ROCKS HOTEL
At least 10 people have been killed and more are feared dead in a car bomb attack at a luxury tourist hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta.
Reuters news agency described the blast at the JW Marriott Hotel as a "huge explosion" with cars burning outside.
Around 34 people have been injured, including three foreigners, hospital officials said.
It comes as the trial draws to a close of an Islamic militant who is accused of being behind last year's Bali bombings.
A report by the AFP news agency suggested three explosions may have occurred.
Police said the explosion came from the basement and was a car bomb.
Other reports suggest it could have been a suicide bomber.
The blast blew out windows
Hotel bosses said staff and guests had been evacuated before the blast, which happened during the busy lunch hour.
Smoke and flames are still pouring from the rubble.
Several floors of the hotel were damaged and windows blown out.
The hotel is popular with foreign tourists, businessmen and politicians because it is located near several embassies in a business complex.
Crowds gather around blast scene
October's Bali bombings killed more than 200 people, mainly foreign holidaymakers.
The trial of militant Amrozi bin Nurhashym, who is accused of masterminding the attack, is expected to end on Thursday after several weeks.
If found guilty he could be sentenced to death.
He is a member of Jemaah Islamiah, an Islamic group seeking to set up a pan-Islamic state in southeast Asia.
The group is accused of having links to al Qaeda and had threatened to carry out more attacks in Indonesia.
you try and remain fair-minded but it seems as though the old saw that "the muslim faith is a religion of peace"is totally bogus....
stuck in the middle ages....probably prior to the middle ages.....this religion,the zealotry and fantacism....they seem stagnant in their evolution....
i hope the entire world wakes up and realizes that this is an international problem....
you can whine about how it`s only a few extremists that are the problem,but that is beginning to ring hollow....with the supposedly friendly saudi arabian`s providing a breeding ground for the violent wahabie`s.....
theocracy`s....cutting hands off of thieves....beating,maiming and killing women for dressing incorrectly...torture........it is what it is....
there needs to be an international push to exterminate these extremists....
somebody needs to shock these violent killers into the 21st century....
or somehow contain them..it`s hard to perceive them as anything other than a blight on civilization....humanity.....
yet so many countries bury their heads in the sand....from what i read,almost a full 2/3 of u.n. member states have failed to submit reports on implementing sanctions or identifying terrorist activities in their countries....again,the rest of the world sloughs off responsibility...
U.N.: Stigma of Terrorism Hinders Reports
By EDITH M. LEDERER, Associated Press Writer
UNITED NATIONS - Some countries are not reporting al-Qaida activities to the United Nations (news - web sites) as required, fearing they would be stigmatized by the presence of terrorists, the chairman of a U.N. committee said Tuesday.
Only 64 of the 191 U.N. member states — barely 30 percent — have submitted reports on what they have done to implement sanctions against al-Qaida and Afghanistan (news - web sites)'s former Taliban rulers, said Heraldo Munoz, Chile's U.N. ambassador and head of the committee monitoring the sanctions.
"Individuals or entities associated with al-Qaida are believed to be active in some way in a significant number of states that have not yet submitted a report," Munoz told the U.N. Security Council.
At an open council meeting, Munoz and nearly two dozen other speakers urged all countries to submit reports on their implementation of sanctions — and to provide names of individuals, groups and companies that should be targeted.
India's U.N. Ambassador Vijay Nambiar said the committee's work and the fight against terrorism would be "severely handicapped" unless countries provide a list of those who participated in terrorist training or other activities.
Israel's deputy U.N. ambassador Arye Mekel warned that it took only one country that didn't comply to provide "safe harbor" for al-Qaida and to enable it to regroup and attack.
U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte said the Bush administration was disappointed at the 30 percent response rate, which he called inadequate.
"States unwilling to implement their obligations, whatever the reason, must be encouraged and, if necessary, pressured to do more," Negroponte said.
Munoz urged countries that don't have the capacity to collect and deliver information to ask for help.
"Recognition of the possible presence of al-Qaida or those associated with the network within its territory appears to be a stigma to some states," he said. "Consequently, detailed information concerning the activities of the al-Qaida network and about al-Qaida operatives and supporters, many of whom were trained in Afghanistan or in other al-Qaida associated or run activities, is not being presented to the committee."
Munoz stressed that every country was required to submit a report by April 17 — and he expressed hope that before his year-end report to the council all 191 nations would comply.
During meetings with governments, a U.N. monitoring panel has stressed "that even if that particular state perceives no threat to its own stability, the presence, however dormant, of al-Qaida related individuals may pose a threat to other countries," he said.
Since the Security Council voted in January to improve implementation of sanctions, Munoz said there have been some successes against al-Qaida including the arrest of senior leaders. However, suspected al-Qaida bombings in Saudia Arabia, Chechnya (news - web sites), Morocco, Yemen and Afghanistan in which at least 263 people were killed underscored the challenges ahead, he said.
The council shifted sanctions from the government of Afghanistan to bin Laden, al-Qaida and remnants of the Taliban in January 2002, after a U.S.-led force ousted the Taliban. All nations are required to impose an arms embargo and impose a travel ban and freeze the assets of individuals and groups on a list compiled by the council committee monitoring sanctions.
According to U.N. officials, the list includes 254 individuals and 99 groups, organizations and companies — 152 individuals and one entity with links to the Taliban and 102 individuals and 98 entities with links to al-Qaida.
Approximately $135 million in terrorist assets has been frozen since the Sept. 11 attacks but 39 countries — which Negroponte didn't name — have not yet introduced domestic legislation enabling terrorist-linked assets to be blocked.
stuck in the middle ages....probably prior to the middle ages.....this religion,the zealotry and fantacism....they seem stagnant in their evolution....
i hope the entire world wakes up and realizes that this is an international problem....
you can whine about how it`s only a few extremists that are the problem,but that is beginning to ring hollow....with the supposedly friendly saudi arabian`s providing a breeding ground for the violent wahabie`s.....
theocracy`s....cutting hands off of thieves....beating,maiming and killing women for dressing incorrectly...torture........it is what it is....
there needs to be an international push to exterminate these extremists....
somebody needs to shock these violent killers into the 21st century....
or somehow contain them..it`s hard to perceive them as anything other than a blight on civilization....humanity.....
yet so many countries bury their heads in the sand....from what i read,almost a full 2/3 of u.n. member states have failed to submit reports on implementing sanctions or identifying terrorist activities in their countries....again,the rest of the world sloughs off responsibility...
U.N.: Stigma of Terrorism Hinders Reports
By EDITH M. LEDERER, Associated Press Writer
UNITED NATIONS - Some countries are not reporting al-Qaida activities to the United Nations (news - web sites) as required, fearing they would be stigmatized by the presence of terrorists, the chairman of a U.N. committee said Tuesday.
Only 64 of the 191 U.N. member states — barely 30 percent — have submitted reports on what they have done to implement sanctions against al-Qaida and Afghanistan (news - web sites)'s former Taliban rulers, said Heraldo Munoz, Chile's U.N. ambassador and head of the committee monitoring the sanctions.
"Individuals or entities associated with al-Qaida are believed to be active in some way in a significant number of states that have not yet submitted a report," Munoz told the U.N. Security Council.
At an open council meeting, Munoz and nearly two dozen other speakers urged all countries to submit reports on their implementation of sanctions — and to provide names of individuals, groups and companies that should be targeted.
India's U.N. Ambassador Vijay Nambiar said the committee's work and the fight against terrorism would be "severely handicapped" unless countries provide a list of those who participated in terrorist training or other activities.
Israel's deputy U.N. ambassador Arye Mekel warned that it took only one country that didn't comply to provide "safe harbor" for al-Qaida and to enable it to regroup and attack.
U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte said the Bush administration was disappointed at the 30 percent response rate, which he called inadequate.
"States unwilling to implement their obligations, whatever the reason, must be encouraged and, if necessary, pressured to do more," Negroponte said.
Munoz urged countries that don't have the capacity to collect and deliver information to ask for help.
"Recognition of the possible presence of al-Qaida or those associated with the network within its territory appears to be a stigma to some states," he said. "Consequently, detailed information concerning the activities of the al-Qaida network and about al-Qaida operatives and supporters, many of whom were trained in Afghanistan or in other al-Qaida associated or run activities, is not being presented to the committee."
Munoz stressed that every country was required to submit a report by April 17 — and he expressed hope that before his year-end report to the council all 191 nations would comply.
During meetings with governments, a U.N. monitoring panel has stressed "that even if that particular state perceives no threat to its own stability, the presence, however dormant, of al-Qaida related individuals may pose a threat to other countries," he said.
Since the Security Council voted in January to improve implementation of sanctions, Munoz said there have been some successes against al-Qaida including the arrest of senior leaders. However, suspected al-Qaida bombings in Saudia Arabia, Chechnya (news - web sites), Morocco, Yemen and Afghanistan in which at least 263 people were killed underscored the challenges ahead, he said.
The council shifted sanctions from the government of Afghanistan to bin Laden, al-Qaida and remnants of the Taliban in January 2002, after a U.S.-led force ousted the Taliban. All nations are required to impose an arms embargo and impose a travel ban and freeze the assets of individuals and groups on a list compiled by the council committee monitoring sanctions.
According to U.N. officials, the list includes 254 individuals and 99 groups, organizations and companies — 152 individuals and one entity with links to the Taliban and 102 individuals and 98 entities with links to al-Qaida.
Approximately $135 million in terrorist assets has been frozen since the Sept. 11 attacks but 39 countries — which Negroponte didn't name — have not yet introduced domestic legislation enabling terrorist-linked assets to be blocked.
What do you suppose they do, ban Islam???
These people might use Islam as their driving force, but it is just a cover. Their religion is a convenient excuse, nothing more. Moderate muslims will tell you as much, that they have very narrow support, but that what money they receive goes almost completely into their terror initiatives. Most religions spend their energy trying to gain new members through missionary work, they do it through violence.
Stopping them isn't about stopping a religion, its about stopping terrorists. Just like Christians, 9 out of 10 are reasonable people that have their own personal belief, but there is always the 10th who feels they are on a mission and will denounce you for not believing as they do. Would we stop the practice of Christianity if the Pat Robertsons and Religious Right pushers got out of hand? I don't think so.
These people might use Islam as their driving force, but it is just a cover. Their religion is a convenient excuse, nothing more. Moderate muslims will tell you as much, that they have very narrow support, but that what money they receive goes almost completely into their terror initiatives. Most religions spend their energy trying to gain new members through missionary work, they do it through violence.
Stopping them isn't about stopping a religion, its about stopping terrorists. Just like Christians, 9 out of 10 are reasonable people that have their own personal belief, but there is always the 10th who feels they are on a mission and will denounce you for not believing as they do. Would we stop the practice of Christianity if the Pat Robertsons and Religious Right pushers got out of hand? I don't think so.
bill...respect your opinion,but if you look at what`s happening around the world....in asia, in eastern europe....in the middle east..now in america.....muslim terrorism has run amuck....i don`t care what percentage of muslim`s are involved.....something has to be done....and having 2/3 of the member states of the u.n. turn a blind eye to whats going on....to be intimidated by these thugs,that`s not encouraging....
the pat robertson`s,whom i have no use for btw,are not "out of hand"....they aren`t murdering innocent people right and left....and if they were,then some sort of sanctions would absolutely be warranted....
like it or not,the actions of the few taint the argument that islam is a religion of peace..and it`s frustrating to try and be politically correct when these monsters are perpetrating mayhem all over the world... ..but,to be fair,i may have overstated....i don`t mean to characterize this as a war between Christendom and Islam. We have many allies in the moslem world, and we will need more if we are to find and destroy the terrorist networks. We will also need the territory of friendly Moslem nations as staging areas. Moreover, if nations teetering between Islamism and modernity -- like Egypt, Pakistan and Jordan -- sense that this is a religious war, they will be swept into the camp of our enemies......the world`s enemies.....
but when islamic groups in our own country are reticent to help provide information to help stop these maniacs,which they are,you wonder why these "good and peaceful" muslims would not also want to put an end to the violence....and those that would blasphemously misuse the good name of the muslim religion to further their own ends...
[This message was edited by sphincter on August 05, 2003 at 07:27 PM.]
the pat robertson`s,whom i have no use for btw,are not "out of hand"....they aren`t murdering innocent people right and left....and if they were,then some sort of sanctions would absolutely be warranted....
like it or not,the actions of the few taint the argument that islam is a religion of peace..and it`s frustrating to try and be politically correct when these monsters are perpetrating mayhem all over the world... ..but,to be fair,i may have overstated....i don`t mean to characterize this as a war between Christendom and Islam. We have many allies in the moslem world, and we will need more if we are to find and destroy the terrorist networks. We will also need the territory of friendly Moslem nations as staging areas. Moreover, if nations teetering between Islamism and modernity -- like Egypt, Pakistan and Jordan -- sense that this is a religious war, they will be swept into the camp of our enemies......the world`s enemies.....
but when islamic groups in our own country are reticent to help provide information to help stop these maniacs,which they are,you wonder why these "good and peaceful" muslims would not also want to put an end to the violence....and those that would blasphemously misuse the good name of the muslim religion to further their own ends...
[This message was edited by sphincter on August 05, 2003 at 07:27 PM.]
Yes they are running amuck, yet don't confuse the facts. The fact is simple, they are but a very small and minor part of the religion in general. Sure some feel a sense of brotherhood with these people, but I think few of them would ever take up arms and become the monsters you are mentioning.
So what can be done? Once again, short of banning the religion there just isn't much you can do. Its like saying we really need to get our arms around this drug dealing problem. Sounds great, lets go do it, but oh by the way we don't know how to stop it. We say we stop their money flow, but very little of it is truly stopped. They don't have nice fat bank accounts with their names on them and most funding isn't done through traditional channels. As one commentator said, well if we shut down email, shut down cell phones, shut down Western Union...well we might stop many of them. Short of that I think we are making what progress is possible and additional steps won't necessarily stop it any more. Sadly its a fact of life and we can only hope that their brothers in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa get sick of their tactics and boot them out. We can't do it from here and when we try it just leads to more problems than it solves.
So what can be done? Once again, short of banning the religion there just isn't much you can do. Its like saying we really need to get our arms around this drug dealing problem. Sounds great, lets go do it, but oh by the way we don't know how to stop it. We say we stop their money flow, but very little of it is truly stopped. They don't have nice fat bank accounts with their names on them and most funding isn't done through traditional channels. As one commentator said, well if we shut down email, shut down cell phones, shut down Western Union...well we might stop many of them. Short of that I think we are making what progress is possible and additional steps won't necessarily stop it any more. Sadly its a fact of life and we can only hope that their brothers in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa get sick of their tactics and boot them out. We can't do it from here and when we try it just leads to more problems than it solves.
Wildbill,
The fact is these muslim countrys dont tolereate other religions, 100K Christians a year get killed each year. The Islam nations are 99% islam, if you try to worship in another religion they murder you. Plenty of Islams want out of there religion but will be killed if they try to leave it.
Satan is at the core of islam, to try to suppress the word of the true and living God. Satan could not stop Jesus 2000 yrs ago, he tried to suppress then. And is now doing the same for his 2nd return.
The fact is these muslim countrys dont tolereate other religions, 100K Christians a year get killed each year. The Islam nations are 99% islam, if you try to worship in another religion they murder you. Plenty of Islams want out of there religion but will be killed if they try to leave it.
Satan is at the core of islam, to try to suppress the word of the true and living God. Satan could not stop Jesus 2000 yrs ago, he tried to suppress then. And is now doing the same for his 2nd return.
How many Muslims have Christians killed this year just for being Muslim?
I know this is going to get Grantt, Lander, RFC, and Phaedrus going, so, everyone not familiar with the Politics forum, be prepared to hear about how President Bush is killing them everyday.
But really, think about it....What kind of God would want you to kill innocent people just because they don't have the same opinions as you do. Could you imagine if this radical thinking was common in the US or in any other civilized country? We'd all be fearing for our lives everyday.
It's really sad that these power hungry assholes like Bin Laden support this kind of thing. How dumb is this guy???? He's a billionaire living in a cave!
KMAN
I know this is going to get Grantt, Lander, RFC, and Phaedrus going, so, everyone not familiar with the Politics forum, be prepared to hear about how President Bush is killing them everyday.
But really, think about it....What kind of God would want you to kill innocent people just because they don't have the same opinions as you do. Could you imagine if this radical thinking was common in the US or in any other civilized country? We'd all be fearing for our lives everyday.
It's really sad that these power hungry assholes like Bin Laden support this kind of thing. How dumb is this guy???? He's a billionaire living in a cave!
KMAN
There are Billions of Muslims, a handful ARE EVIL EVIL men ... but as WildBill wisely said they by no means represent the Islam religion that you are blaming the terror on.
It's easy to Sterotype when we need a victim, but that doesn't justify it. We need to stop the terrorists NOT the muslims.
It's easy to Sterotype when we need a victim, but that doesn't justify it. We need to stop the terrorists NOT the muslims.
All of you make great points. Surely Railbird understands it's not all Muslims. I was only talking about the radical Islamic religion myself.
What can we do?
As President Bush said, this is going to be a long war against an cowardly enemy who kills innocent people then hides. In my opinion, the fastest way to get these murderers is to track their email, phone calls, or any other communication. I know some of you would be up in arms about loosing some of your so called civil liberties but I would rather get these basturds and give my some of my privacy, for a certain time period (maybe 6 months), then have my privacy and live in fear. I am only talking about a short time period, then the communication tracking would expire and would be re-evaluated.
If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to be afraid of?
KMAN
What can we do?
As President Bush said, this is going to be a long war against an cowardly enemy who kills innocent people then hides. In my opinion, the fastest way to get these murderers is to track their email, phone calls, or any other communication. I know some of you would be up in arms about loosing some of your so called civil liberties but I would rather get these basturds and give my some of my privacy, for a certain time period (maybe 6 months), then have my privacy and live in fear. I am only talking about a short time period, then the communication tracking would expire and would be re-evaluated.
If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to be afraid of?
KMAN
Millions of Americans have died fighting for & defending the freedom that you are suggesting we give up. Our liberties, our freedoms are what make America - well, America.
I'm all for defeating terrorists, but by giving up our freedoms they have already won - they have undone what sacrifices of millions of American soldiers & hundreds of years of Democracy had once accomplished.
I'm all for defeating terrorists, but by giving up our freedoms they have already won - they have undone what sacrifices of millions of American soldiers & hundreds of years of Democracy had once accomplished.
I worked with an British consultancy back a few year, and I asked one of my former British co-workers how they thought America should react to 9/11 ...
he said the terrorist have won if they make you live in fear - the best way to fight them is to live your lives the EXACT same way you'd done before. He told me this was how they coped & dealt with the IRA & their terrorist agressions throughout the years.
I believe him to be correct.
he said the terrorist have won if they make you live in fear - the best way to fight them is to live your lives the EXACT same way you'd done before. He told me this was how they coped & dealt with the IRA & their terrorist agressions throughout the years.
I believe him to be correct.
"he said the terrorist have won if they make you live in fear - the best way to fight them is to live your lives the EXACT same way you'd done before. He told me this was how they coped & dealt with the IRA & their terrorist agressions throughout the years."
If you live exactly the same way, whats to stop it from happening again? Terrorism thrives when it is ignored and allowed to continue just as before, without any impediments.
If you live exactly the same way, whats to stop it from happening again? Terrorism thrives when it is ignored and allowed to continue just as before, without any impediments.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Igetp2s:
"he said the terrorist have won if they make you live in fear - the best way to fight them is to live your lives the EXACT same way you'd done before. He told me this was how they coped & dealt with the IRA & their terrorist agressions throughout the years."
If you live exactly the same way, whats to stop it from happening again? Terrorism thrives when it is ignored and allowed to continue just as before, without any impediments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Terrorism is not being ignore, yet it is thriving EVERY DAY. Have you missed the daily Yellow, Red, and/or Orange "alerts"?? (they did "magically" supress themselves just long enough for Dumbya to fly Air Force One around with our tax money during the Senate Race so he could campaign .. imagine the fuking odds
) Perhaps you've missed the bi-monthly bombings in Jakarta?
Do you honestly think this is a war we can/will win?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted August 06, 2003 03:15 PM
"There are Billions of Muslims, a handful ARE EVIL EVIL men"
There are a lot more than a handful unfortunately. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sure the number of muslims that are terrorists is far below .0001% - I would not call this a significant amount with regards to determining a correlation to support your ignorant stereotypical ways
"he said the terrorist have won if they make you live in fear - the best way to fight them is to live your lives the EXACT same way you'd done before. He told me this was how they coped & dealt with the IRA & their terrorist agressions throughout the years."
If you live exactly the same way, whats to stop it from happening again? Terrorism thrives when it is ignored and allowed to continue just as before, without any impediments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Terrorism is not being ignore, yet it is thriving EVERY DAY. Have you missed the daily Yellow, Red, and/or Orange "alerts"?? (they did "magically" supress themselves just long enough for Dumbya to fly Air Force One around with our tax money during the Senate Race so he could campaign .. imagine the fuking odds
Do you honestly think this is a war we can/will win?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted August 06, 2003 03:15 PM
"There are Billions of Muslims, a handful ARE EVIL EVIL men"
There are a lot more than a handful unfortunately. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sure the number of muslims that are terrorists is far below .0001% - I would not call this a significant amount with regards to determining a correlation to support your ignorant stereotypical ways
Lander - I'm not sure where you live (US or not) but it sounds like you are saying that we should do nothing and just live with it. Is that correct?
Don't get me wrong, I am not really fearing for my life everyday but it sucks that I have to be afraid of going to other countries just because I am a Christian or just because I am an American. Anyone in the world can come to America and not have to be afraid of being murdered because they are a certain nationality or belive a different religion.
You talk about war veterans fighting for our right of privacy and not wanting to give that up, well, I'm talking about protecting all of our other rights. These terrorists are not going to stop trying to kill Americans until they or we are all dead. If we do nothing and the terrorists continue to kill Americans how does that help?
KMAN
Don't get me wrong, I am not really fearing for my life everyday but it sucks that I have to be afraid of going to other countries just because I am a Christian or just because I am an American. Anyone in the world can come to America and not have to be afraid of being murdered because they are a certain nationality or belive a different religion.
You talk about war veterans fighting for our right of privacy and not wanting to give that up, well, I'm talking about protecting all of our other rights. These terrorists are not going to stop trying to kill Americans until they or we are all dead. If we do nothing and the terrorists continue to kill Americans how does that help?
KMAN
I'm sure the number of muslims that are terrorists is far below .0001%.
And I would estimate at least 98% of the world's terrorist are muslim. But I'm sure theres no correlation.
I'm also getting tired of hearing on a daily basis American muslim clerics public urging all muslims to give up violence. Oh wait, that hasnt happened once.
And I would estimate at least 98% of the world's terrorist are muslim. But I'm sure theres no correlation.
I'm also getting tired of hearing on a daily basis American muslim clerics public urging all muslims to give up violence. Oh wait, that hasnt happened once.
