Most accurate pollster in 2004 election shows: Obama 44.8%, McCain 43.7%

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Most accurate pollster in 2004 election shows: Obama 44.8%, McCain 43.7%, Not Sure 11.6%...

IBD/TIPP Tracking Poll: Day Eleven
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2008

McCain has cut into Obama's lead for a second day and is now just 1.1 points behind. The spread was 3.7 Wednesday and 6.0 Tuesday. The Republican is making headway with middle- and working- class voters, and has surged 10 points in two days among those earning between $30,000 and $75,000. He has also gone from an 11-point deficit to a 9-point lead among Catholics.

View Results From Prior Days
About IBD/TIPP: An analysis of Final Certified Results for the 2004 election showed IBD's polling partner, TIPP, was the most accurate pollster of the campaign season. Learn more at www.TIPPonline.com.

How bout them Catholics! No US Prez has won without the Catholic vote..and here they come...right on time:pope:
 

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I'm glad you have something to cling to, pal. Have a good night. %^_
 

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Check out the splits on that poll. They have....

Age 18-24: McCain 74, Obama 22

Cue Barman....Pure Comedy Gold. :missingte
 

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This poll has also has Obama leading 44-39 among independents. In other words, they have sampled more Republicans than Democrats in this poll....despite the fact that everyone knows party ID is higher for Dems, whether it's by 4 or 6 or 8 points.

All of that and McCain is still losing. :nohead:
 

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Check out the splits on that poll. They have....

Age 18-24: McCain 74, Obama 22

Cue Barman....Pure Comedy Gold. :missingte


I was about to post the same demographic

same guy that speaks about bad partisan weighting (which I think is a legitimate question)....posts a poll showing McCain winning 3-1 among 18-24......and STILL LOSING
 

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D2 now shows a perplexing and sudden interest in poll internals.

LOL...look at D2 scramble.

If I say jump...you say how high MJ? :103631605 :pope:
 

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BetIt, and this poll apparently has Repub overall weighted higher than Dems because Obama up 5 among Independents.

This looks like a Mickey Mouse poll. If they were really "the most accurate poll" in 2004 it was probably by accident and probably wasn't the most accurate in terms of internals.
 

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mj found his 1 of 20 sites today.

i found my 1 of 20 saying the wolves would make the playoffs to and im running with it.

i know im wrong, but it makes me happy at the end of the day

:)
 

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D2 now shows a perplexing and sudden interest in poll internals.

LOL...look at D2 scramble.

If I say jump...you say how high MJ? :103631605 :pope:

Sudden interest? I love looking at poll internals, esp on state level. This is a Mickey Mouse poll. I know you think you're being clever by plucking out one outlier among more than a dozen daily polls. Whatever floats your boat and gets you through the day, pal.
 

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Sudden interest? I love looking at poll internals, esp on state level. This is a Mickey Mouse poll. I know you think you're being clever by plucking out one outlier among more than a dozen daily polls. Whatever floats your boat and gets you through the day, pal.

Your post is a case study in rationalization.

Don't feel bad...its one of the strongest human frailties.

And I didn't "find" it...its all over the National headlines today. :103631605
 

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Your post is a case study in rationalization.

Don't feel bad...its one of the strongest human frailties.

And I didn't "find" it...its all over the National headlines today. :103631605

Hey, whatever gets you through the next 12 days with hope.
 

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mj found his 1 of 20 sites today.

i found my 1 of 20 saying the wolves would make the playoffs to and im running with it.

i know im wrong, but it makes me happy at the end of the day

:)
:nohead:
 

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Ignore the "tightening" stories that are probably about to appear based on today's IBD/TIPP poll showing Obama ahead by only 1.1 points. TIPP are right wingers who sometimes put out bizarre numbers. McCain has not "surged" with any voters in the last 2 days, he has lost ground in 5 of the 8 national tracking polls. Other national tracking polls today show: Rasmussen +7, Gallup +6, Research 2000 +10, Zogby +11.9, Hotline +5, Battleground +4, ABC +11.


What's Wrong With This Picture? (a.k.a. Nate the Poll Nazi Strikes Again)


<STYLE>#fullpost {display:none;}</STYLE>From the latest IPD/TIPP poll:

2966814135_fbcaab9568_o.png


That's right ... IBD/TIPP has John McCain ahead 74-22 among 18-24 year olds. Who knew the kids were groovin' on J-Mac these days?

IBD/TIPP puts an asterisk by this result, stipulating that "Age 18-24 has much fluctuation due to small sample size".

Indeed, there may be some fluctuations when looking at small subgroups like these. That's why I generally don't pick on a poll if, say, it has John McCain winning 18 percent of the black vote when he's only "supposed" to be winning 7 percent or whatever. Fluctuations of that magnitude are going to be relatively common, mathematically speaking. In fact, they're entirely unavoidable, if you're taking enough polls and breaking out the results amongst enough subgroups.

But fluctuations of this magnitude are an entirely different matter.

Suppose that the true distribution of the 18-24 year old vote is a 15-point edge for Obama. This is a very conservative estimate; most pollsters show a gap of anywhere from 20-35 points among this age range.

About 9.3 percent of the electorate was between age 18-24 in 2004. Let's assume that the percentage is also 9.3 percent this year. Again, this is a highly conservative estimate. The IBD/TIPP poll has a sample size of 1,060 likely voters, which would imply that about 98 of those voters are in the 18-24 age range.

What are the odds, given the parameters above, that a random sampling of 98 voters aged 18-24 would distribute themselves 74% to McCain and 22% to Obama?

Using a binomial distribution</ STRONG>, the odds are 54,604,929,633-to-1 against. That is, about 55 billion to one.

So, there is an 0.000000002% chance that IBD/TIPP just got really unlucky. Conversely, there is a 99.999999998% chance that one of the following things is true:

(i) They're massively undersampling the youth vote. If you only have, say, 30 young voters when you should have 100 or so in your sample, than the odds of a freak occurrence like this are significantly more likely.
-or-
(ii) Something is dramatically wrong with their sampling or weighting procedures, or their likely voter model.

My guess is that it's some combination of the two -- that, for instance, IBD/TIPP is applying a very stringent likely voter model that removes you from the sample if you haven't voted in the past two elections, which would rule a great number of 18-24 year olds out.

A pollster could get away with a turnout model like that in 2004 (when IBD/TIPP did well in estimating the national popular vote), when the split in the youth vote was relatively small between John Kerry and George W. Bush. They can't get away with that this year, when the split is much larger.

But the basic takeaway is this: you should absolutely not assume that just because someone has published a poll, they have any particular idea what they're doing. Pollsters should be treated as guilty until proven otherwise.
 

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