Liberated Iraqis Very Happy US is There, All of Them. Anyone Who Says Otherwise is Lying, or Leftist, or a Commie, or a Lying Leftist Commie. Any Un

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Baghdad Seethes With Anger Toward U.S.
NIKO PRICE
Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq - At first they cheered, smiled, offered hearty thumbs-ups to the U.S. soldiers newly in their midst. But across Iraq's lawless capital, that sentiment is evaporating as quickly as Saddam Hussein's government melted away.

Baghdad was bursting with anti-American feeling Saturday as residents saw their city being stripped by its own citizens while U.S. forces stood by, rarely intervening and in some cases even motioning treasure-laden men through checkpoints.

Some still agreed with the United States' assessment of itself as a liberator. In the middle-class Zayuna neighborhood, friendly people offered American Marines baths, bread and buoyant greetings - and asked for both autographs and help against looters.

But for other Iraqis, in dozens of interviews conducted across Baghdad, the assessment was drastically different: America as conqueror.

"The coalition forces are responsible. Where is the law?" said Safa Hussein Qasim, 44, a jeweler. "This is the promise of the United States to Iraq? This is democracy in Baghdad?"

To walk the streets Saturday was to wade through a crazy-quilt blend of disarray and sadness, rage and jubilation and self-hatred. Though available booty was running low, looting continued apace, as did citizen resistance to it. One man carried a purloined tuba up the street. Baghdadis fretted and argued: What would become of their country?

"Saddam Hussein's greatest crime is that he brought the American army to Iraq," said Gailan Ramiz, 62, helping a mob that was trying to tear down yet another Saddam statue at Shorji market, Baghdad's biggest.

It is stories like Hassan Shrawa's that are making them turn their backs on the uniformed Americans who swept in days ago.

Shrawa, 30, an engineer from Baghdad's Saddam City section, said he and his neighbors captured a Syrian mercenary and turned him over to U.S. troops Friday. As Shrawa tells it, the commander flatly refused to take custody of the man.

"What happens in the future?" Shrawa mused.

U.S. forces say they are doing the best they can under chaotic conditions - chaos, many Iraqis point out, that the United States itself created. Few praised Saddam. But at least, they said, he offered stability.

Baghdad lacks that right now. Water, electricity and gasoline are pipe dreams, and food is becoming almost as scarce.

Impromptu commerce is springing up on the sidewalks. One man made money stitching moccasins back together. At a nearby stall, another man dished out bowls of rice and beans from two steaming cauldrons.

On the streets of Zayuna, curious children milled around Saturday, trying out English phrases and asking for Marines' addresses. One presented Sgt. Paul Coughlin of Boston with a red flower that he nestled in his grenade pouch; another played marbles with medic Brent Cook, 23, of Houston.

Elsewhere, the Marines received less enthusiasm. In front of the Palestine Hotel, an area thick with U.S. Marines, several dozen Iraqis demanded a new government - now. "We want peace," they chanted in English as Marines looked on from fighting vehicles.

Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, at U.S. Central Command, says reports of looting in Iraq are overblown - that many parts of the country are peaceful, and lawlessness "is already tapering off significantly."

U.S. officials insist the restoration of law and order will become a higher priority. The State Department said Friday it was sending 26 police and judicial officers to Iraq, the first component of a team that will eventually number about 1,200. And on Saturday, the U.S. military and the Iraqi police said they've agreed to joint patrols to restore order - "sooner rather than later," one Marine said.

For Iraqis on the ground, such promises mean little until they're delivered.

Residents, fearing looting would move on to private homes, set up neighborhood patrols to prevent it. One family put a girder across the street at the end of their block and stood by it with guns. They, too, denounced America.

"The United States breaks into the palaces and then threatens all the people who steal from them," said Efil Adnan, a 48-year-old oil engineer guarding the barricade with two of his sons and his brother. He held a pistol; the brother wielded a Kalashnikov.

"The United States is a liar," Adnan said. "They are not going to make anything better."

His son, Forkan Efil, 13, wore a T-shirt that said "Football" and also carried a pistol. He said all his friends have guns now.

"I don't like the Americans," the boy said, "but this pistol is for the thieves."

At the market, the dozens of men attempting to tear down the Saddam statue didn't have the oomph. The chain kept snapping, and finally they turned to Plan B - pouring gasoline over it and setting it ablaze.

But in doing so, they made sure one important point was known - just because they revel in Saddam's ouster doesn't mean they're waving American flags.

"The army of America is like Genghis Khan," Fouad Abdullah Ahmed, 49, snapped as U.S. tanks rumbled by without stopping. "America is not good and Saddam is not good. My people refused Saddam Hussein, and they will refuse the Americans."

One young man went even further.

"If this continues in Baghdad, we'll kill any American or British soldier," said Rahad Bahman Qasim, 30 and unemployed. For emphasis, he added this: "All of us - even the women."

---

EDITOR'S NOTE - Niko Price is correspondent-at-large for The Associated Press.
 

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Saddams's new progaganda minister Phaedrus quotes:

Baghdad Seethes With Anger Toward U.S.
NIKO PRICE
Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq -

<"The coalition forces are responsible. Where <is the law?" said Safa Hussein Qasim, 44, a <jeweler. "This is the promise of the United <States to Iraq? This is democracy in Baghdad?"


A jeweler in Baghdad? Who do you think he sold to - Saddam and the rich Baath party leaders.
Of course he is complaining.


<"Saddam Hussein's greatest crime is that he <brought the American army to Iraq," said <Gailan Ramiz, 62, helping a mob that was <trying to tear down yet another Saddam statue <at Shorji market, Baghdad's biggest.

Right. Forget about the 2,000,000 of your fellow countrymen he murdered.

<In front of the Palestine Hotel, an area thick <with U.S. Marines, several dozen Iraqis <demanded a new government - now.

Funny they never demanded a new government when Saddam was in power for more than 25 years. So
they expect a new one overnight. Dumb ****s.


<Residents, fearing looting would move on to <private homes, set up neighborhood patrols to <prevent it. One family put a girder across the <street at the end of their block and stood by <it with guns. They, too, denounced America.

<"The United States breaks into the palaces and <then threatens all the people who steal from <them," said Efil Adnan, a 48-year-old oil <engineer guarding the barricade with two of <his sons and his brother. He held a pistol; <the brother wielded a Kalashnikov.

<"The United States is a liar," Adnan <said. "They are not going to make anything <better."

Just more Baathists protecting their ill-gotten gains.

With maybe a hundred thousand Baath party members in Baghdad, it is not hard to get quotes
complaining about the US.
 

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Curm, exactley these quotes from shop owners were only in buisnes because they towed the saddam line and were probably rats.

If I went to the antartic with a 100,000 people, I could find a 100 of them bitching about the heat if I looked hard enough. I wish CNN was so concerned about looting during the South central LA riots...or the looting that occured after the college football championship.

Where was the outrage when people were looting after the Clinton wars??
 

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Phaedrus greatest post header i have ever seen. i would have expected some sort of limit on no. of letters or something.
 

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What's the point to this thread? There are people in the US who hate the US. Just listen to several of the people on these boards.

KMAN
 

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I love my country. I hate the people who have ruined it. I hate what I see as dark times coming for my country, caused by idiotic short-sighted political policy from both of the parties.

I think that the only people who consider a person who is not happy with politicians to be "anti-American" are the sort of mindless tools that keep those same politicans in power year after year, failure after failure, broken promise after broken promise.

America wasn't built on chest-beating and marching in file to the loudest drum, but that's surely what runs it now. You pathetic bunch of goose-stepping androids.


Phaedrus
 
This didn't occur when France and Germany were freed either. More liberal propaganda.
 

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Why is this a dark time for the US?

This should be seen as a start for total world peace. The US and it's (real) allies are starting to rid countries of terrorism, create many new friendships in the Arab world, and increase our safety at home.

Now Iran and North Korea are rethinking what they are doing.

This could be a great time in US history if we take advantage of it.

KMAN
 

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outandup, you are a true phucking retard if you are comparing this conflict to WWII. I didn't think my estimation of you could get any lower.

KMAN, if you see the current overall situation in the US as a positive one, there is nothing in the world I could do or say that would convince you otherwise. One or the other of us is simply too far gone.


Phaedrus
 

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Phaedrus - Like it or not we are a terrorist target, that is not going to change. I think we can agree on that. Now, rather than just let these terrorist organizations build and build until they are big enough to take out the whole U.S., why don't we take matters into our own hands and start trying to prevent terrorism right now?

At this point in time, these Arab countries only know what their leaders want them to know. They haven't done one thing that helps the rest of the world except provide oil. That being said there is nothing out there to show these people that their life can be better and since there is nothing else out there these people are always going to believe that the US is evil. However, people in Afghanistan and now Iraq are starting to see the truth.

Now is the time to tell the world the truth about the U.S. Everywhere the US has gone, that country has been better off.

KMAN
 

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KMAN, as usual you and I are in 100% agreement on matters factual, which demonstrates a refreshing acquaintance with reality on our part, a rarity here to be sure. The US is in fact a target of terrorist attacks.

The Arab countries know a thing or two about the universal enemy that they see in the West. Our policies for decades have been abhorrent there, going as far back as the British-French work in first quarter of the 20th century, on up to Truman's bungling policies with the Saudis, then Eisenhower (alas, the last man fit to sit in the Oval Office) allowing the overthrow of a democratically-elected leader in Iran, to be replaced with an anti-Soviet Shah who spent the next two decades abusing the people, villification of a united trade front vis-a-vis Nixon's imaginary energy crisis, that pansy Carter botching the handling of the Iran hostage crisis, the machinations of Reagan in the Iraq-Iran war, Gulf War I, the completely insane decision by Clinton to ignore what may have been our greatest hope of normalising relations with Iran in the wake of Khomeini's death. Now, Gulf War II, possibly Syria, maybe Iran, we just can't decide.

That anyone considers it suprising that we are the target of terrorist attacks simply mystifies me. Is terrorism justified? Of course not, it is despicable and cowardly; the worst possible expression of the initiation of force as a means to an end. But don't kid yourself that the sh1t was not imminent, given a century of every major Western power screwing around with the Middle East. And unfortunately, as THE pre-eminent Western power, the US not only pays for it's own past errs but undoubtedly bears the brunt of collective terrorist hatred, in a sort of racism that deems us "all that is Western" just as so many here deem all people of Arab descent or Islamic faith to be representative of the relatively small number of them who are actually terrorists.

As I have stated numerous times, it's not that opressed people being liberated from oppression bothers me -- far form it. It's that a people who refuse to liberate themselves will not stay liberated for very long (witness the rebirth of the Taliban in Afghanistan, not even a year after we "liberated" the Afghanis.) And then what happens is a never-ending babysitting gig on the part of the US military, which is wasteful, possibly unconstitutional, and an undeniable damper on foreign relations no matter how noble our intentions.

We will never, ever, ever be safe from terrorist attacks. The argument is as foolish as any other of our government's ideological "wars;" i.e. the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, the War on Illiteracy. And under the current administration we have chosen to target nations rather than terrorist organisations, because unlike the latter the former is easy to find.

Do you believe that Iraq supports the al-Qaeda? A moot point in light of the question: do you believe that the al-Qaeda will not be able to find support elsewhere, including from it's own substantial resources?

Terrorism will continue, and will continue to be used as a pretext (perhaps even a sincerely-believed rationale) for invading one "terrorist-supporting" nation after another, without stopping a single attack -- and those attacks which are pre-empted using legitimate means, such as those which caught on to Operation Bojinka in the mid-1990's, will be credited to the "War on Terror" rather than to excellent investigative work that would have been going on regardless.


Phaedrus
 
we shouldn`t have any policies there....we need to find an altrnative energy source.....and extricate ourselves from any dependence on this backwards,medieval,religiously fanatical society.....truth be told,we are 2 societies with very little in common....except the symbiotic relationship regarding oil...if oil were ever rendered obsolete,the middle east would make the poorer parts of africa look like beverly hills...
 
Phauckhead,
The Iraqis were treated like shit for 30 fukin years and they steal some chairs from government buildings, big deal. Did you cry when they looted in LA? Don't be such a dumbazz.
 

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according to an interview on CNN less than 30 minutes ago 2 museum officials waited 4 hours for an interview with a US colonel 3 days ago. the colonel promised help but same never arrived.

the journalist then pointed out that the Oil Ministry was well protected and untouched.

it is always pointed out that the US troops did not have the resources to stop the looting as if same was a proven fact.

biased reporting as if it was the other side journalists would be saying "spokesmen claimed" or "allegedly" did not have the resources.
 

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Patriot,
Please remeber that there is a distinction beetween those who hate the US, and those that think its current leaders are not true to its ideals.
 

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US troops accused of carnage
April 16 2003

United States troops opened fire on a crowd hostile to the new pro-American governor in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul yesterday, killing at least 10 people and injuring as many as 100, witnesses and doctors said.

The shooting overshadowed the start of US-brokered talks aimed at sketching out a post-Saddam Iraq.

At Mosul hospital Dr Ayad al-Ramadhani said the American soldiers had fired into a crowd that was becoming increasingly hostile towards governor Mashaan al-Juburi as he was making a pro-US speech in the city.

But a US miltary spokesman said the troops had come under fire from at least two gunmen and fired back, but did not aim at the crowd.

"There are perhaps 100 wounded and 10 to 12 dead," Dr al-Ramadhani said as angry relatives of the dead and wounded voiced hatred of Americans and Westerners.


One witness, Marwan Mohammed, 50, said: "We were at the market place near the government building, where Juburi was making a speech. He said everything would be restored, water, electricity, and that democracy was the Americans.

"As for the Americans, they were going through the crowd with their flag. They placed themselves between the civilians and the building. The people moved toward the government building, the children threw stones, the Americans started firing. Then they prevented the people from recovering the bodies."

A doctor, Said Altah, said: "Juburi said the people must co-operate with the United States. The crowd called him a liar, and tempers rose as he continued to talk. They threw objects at him, overturned his car, which exploded. The wounded said Juburi asked the Americans to fire."

Ayad Hassun said the trouble broke out after the crowd interrupted Mr Juburi's speech with cries of, "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet."

"You are with Saddam's fedayeen," retorted Mr Juburi, to which the crowd chanted that, "The only democracy is to make the Americans leave."

He said 20 US soldiers escorted Mr Juburi back into the building. "They climbed on top of the building and first fired at a building near the crowd, with the glass falling on the civilians. People started to throw stones, then the Americans fired at them."

But the US spokesman said: "There were protesters outside, 100 to 150, there was fire, we returned fire. We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building. There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes."

At the US-sponsored talks near the southern city of Nasiriyah, crowds earlier denounced the US presence in Iraq.

Thousands protested that they did not need US help now Saddam Hussein had gone. "No to America. No to Saddam," chanted Iraqis from the Shia Muslim majority oppressed by Saddam. Arabic television networks said up to 20,000 people marched.

In Baghdad, meanwhile, hundreds of people chanting "our blood and our soul we give to Iraq" gathered outside the Palestine Hotel in protest against the US presence. The hotel now houses US military and reporters.

Australia came in for criticism at the Nasiriyah conference when one delegate, Sheik Sayed Jamaluddin, hit out at the detention of Iraqi asylum seekers.

After thanking the US and Britain for liberating Iraqis from Saddam, the Shiite cleric said: "I call on the representatives of the Australian Government to ask the Government to accept the human rights of those Iraqis who are held prisoner in some capacity in Iraq [viz] that they might be treated in a humane fashion."

The talks ended on yesterday with an agreement to meet again in 10 days. Jay Garner, the former US general leading the effort to rebuild Iraq, opened the conference, saying: "A free and democratic Iraq will begin today."

Agencies
 

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No, it came from the Sydney Morning Herald

That's something, getting my sources questioned by a person who regularly posts stuff from NewsMax.
icon_rolleyes.gif



Phaedrus
 

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Happy, liberated Iraqis no longer allowed to own guns. Says Captain Cliff Dare, "If we want to give the new Iraq a chance these weapons have to be taken out of circulation."

Happy, liberated Iraqis still having to defend their property with violent force. Unfortunately for this one, Marines shot him dead in his tracks while he was attmepting to defend his property from looters.


Viva Liberdad!


Phaedrus
 

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