Let me tell you a little story

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About this team I know:

They're a good team; some might say a great team who have played really well down the stretch, so are picked by some to win it all this year.

On paper they have a really good, deep defense corps that seems among the best in the league, and a fast group of forwards with 3 lines that can all score. 2 goalies, both of whom look like they could stand tall for a deep run.

This team's above-average qualities are:

- has a top-10 PK
- balanced scoring - ten players with 10 or more goals, and two more with 9; three with more than 20

Hmm, ok, that doesn't seem like much. But what if this team, despite looking really strong in all areas had the following concerns:

- generates shots around the league average
- suppresses shots around the league average
- is one of the worst faceoff teams in the league
- has a bottom-10 PP
- is bottom-10 in offensive zone starts
- generates scoring chances at a similar rate to teams like Columbus and Phoenix (outside of top 10)
- suppresses scoring chances at a similar rate to teams like Winnipeg and Tampa Bay (barely top 10)

They also had a healthy dose of luck along the way:

- ranked in the top-5 for shooting percentage and save percentage (all numbers score-adjusted at even strength) to finish with the highest PDO in the league just ahead of these other teams that should also praise Allah: Montreal, Colorado and Calgary.
- had one of the more fortunate seasons in terms of injuries, 1-goal game wins and OT game wins

This team, in the last month of the season, actually got worse in all areas of Corsi% and Scoring Chance% listed above, yet went 12-5 thanks to even more abnormally high shooting and save percentages. As a consequence, their stock is riding high.


Where do you think this team would finish in the standings, and if they made the playoffs how deep would you expect them to go?

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What if they were playing against a team that, in comparing it to the one above, has:

- also balanced scoring, contrary to perceptions - 9 players with 10 or more goals, and 4 with more than 20
- a top-3 PK

Then in the advanced/enhanced stats category, this team:

- is top-10 in shot-attempts generated
- is top-5 in shot attempts suppressed
- is bottom-10 in faceoffs
- has a top-10 PP
- is top-5 in offensive zone starts
- is top 10 in scoring chances generated
- is almost identical to the team above in suppressing scoring chances

In other words, ranked the same or higher, sometimes significantly so, in ever category listed above.

However, this team didn't have an overly lucky season, they were pretty average:

- middle of the pack for both shooting and save percentages for an average PDO
- had a few tough injuries, but overall were a little luckier than the average team

This team, in the last month of the season, cratered according to many pundits, and almost missed the playoffs entirely amid injury problems, cap problems and talk of dressing room strife. They won only 5 of their last 16 games, one in a shootout. But did they go in the tank and play like garbage? The stats say no. In their last month they had a better Corsi%, much better Scoring Chance% and the best Zone starts% in the league by a mile. So what happened? Their shooting% (worst in the league) tanked at the same time as their save percentage (6th worst), giving them the worst PDO in the league (by a decent margin) for the last month. Guess what other teams were near them at the bottom? San Jose and Boston, who also recorded shooting percentages below 6% for the month (for those that don't know, even strength shooting% has been shown to be, at least team-wide, hugely luck-driven, and it always regresses to the mean eventually). Sidebar - guess who had the best shooting for the month? Columbus (remember their improbable winning streak?) and Calgary (oh, you thought they made the playoffs because of their tenacity and truculence? C'mon...)

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Alright, it's time for bed and this wall of text is way too long for anyone to bother reading, but I still haven't made my point. I think if you've made it anywhere close to reading everything you know that the team on top is the Rangers and the team on the bottom is the Penguins. I don't really like either team as a fan, and wish they could both lose in the first round, but one has to get through haha. And I absolutely get most of the arguments everyone is making for why and how the Rangers will crush the Penguins in the first round - and they absolutely might - but most of the arguments being made are arguments that the public makes, and I can't see any value on the Rangers. Yes, the Penguins APPEAR to be in disarray, and yes, they did have to dress 5 D for some games down the stretch due to their injury problems. Losing Letang is absolutely significant, and Malkin is clearly not 100%, and those are just the obvious big-name injuries. But despite those problems (which were present for a lot of if not the entire last month of the season) the Penguins still played bloody well, they just got really, really unlucky.



Make whatever bets you want, and if you like the Rangers at -200 or worse, fill your boots. I have to concede that there are a lot of really good cappers on here backing the Rangers, so I should probably just stfu before I look really dumb when the Pens get swept haha. Although to be honest, that's why I looked into these 2 teams in the first place - I never understood the Ranger hype when I watched them play and wanted to see if the numbers backed them up.
I just think there's a hell of a lot more value on the dog here, and there are better "sure things" than the Rangers in this series. Remember how the Penguins were going to crush Columbus last year? They were even heavier favourites than the Rangers are this year. Well, they did come out winners, but that series could have gone either way, with all 6 games 1-goal games in the final minute, and 2 going to OT. It's the playoffs - crazy stuff happens and goalies get hot.

Think about this one thing though - if you were to think of 1 team whose stock is the highest entering the playoffs who would it be? And conversely, which team's stock is the lowest? Somewhere in that equation is EV/value.

Fade or follow it makes no difference to me - I'm just trying to provide some information that runs contradictory to the mainstream out there, since I think that's how we all make money.

Comments always welcome, even if it's GB2 telling me I'm a fucking idiot and the Rangers are going all the way babyyyyyy!!!
 

I don't know enough to know I don't know
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The two main reasons I have for liking the Rangers to take this opening series is, 5 on 5 numbers, (NY ranked # one, Pens # 11), and Lundqvist over Fleury. Fleury is simply a ordinary goalie and if he wasn’t playing for Pittsburgh wouldn’t even be a .500 career goaltender. Everyone talks about his post season failures, .905 save #, 2.68 GAA in 93 playoff games but these numbers mirror his career regular season stats, .911, 2.59.

Advanced stats or not no one can deny the eye test between these two teams supports this inflated series price. One team looks lost, the other with momentum and focus.

Great information and writeup Feddz.
 

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I hear what you're saying Vic, but the rationale you gave is the same rationale that Joe Public has for unloading on the Rangers. Maybe it's as simple as that and I'm overcomplicating things. But for fun let's delve into the numbers a little more, because we're obviously looking at things a little differently.

You like the Rangers because they were #1, while the Pens were #11 at 5v5. But all the numbers I used were 5v5 as well. The difference is, mine were score-adjusted, and not as reliant on luck like shooting%. I mean, how could the same team be mediocre at 5v5 according to me, and the top of the league according to you. Easy - shooting percentage. Looking at goal differential to decide whether a team is good or not is the same thing as checking plus-minus to decide if a player is good. Both may be relevant over a decade for sure, but taking one year in isolation (see Ovechkin last year vs this year) gives you a sample size that is way too small to be particularly statistically useful. Check this for example:

This past season the Rangers' shooting% was 8.8%, tied for 3rd in the league (5v5, non score-adjusted). Over 82 games 5v5 they took 2025 shots and scored 179 goals

In the 2013-2014 season the Rangers shooting% at 5v5 was 6.7%, 3rd-LAST in the league. They took 2127 shots and scored 142 goals. Did the Rangers players become better 5v5 shooters in the off-season? Of course not. They just had a below-average shooting year in 2013-2014, and an above average shooting year in 2014-2015.

If the Rangers had finished this season with the same shooting percentage as 2013-2014 they would have scored 135 goals instead of 179 goals. What would their record look like then? They probably would have missed the playoffs entirely. What if they had finished average, with a shooting% of around 7.8%? They would have scored 158 goals, or 21 fewer than they actually got. They likely still would have made the playoffs, but I'm not sure we'd be talking about them very much.


The second reason that you like the Rangers over the Penguins I'm not even going to try to rebut. I agree 100% that either Rangers goalie is better than Fleury, despite the fact that this year their numbers are actually pretty close. With the injuries that the Penguins have on the back end they will probably need Fleury to outplay Lundqvist/Talbot. But it's not impossible, as despite his overall weak body of work in the playoffs, he does have a Cup, and has had some good runs.

And of course the eye test supports the price - that's my exact point. Joe Public uses the eye test and is unloading on the Rangers. I don't see anyone picking the Pens - not at ESPN or TSN, which is where the public gets most of their information, and not at the numerous sports betting forums where I lurk. Again - that doesn't mean the Rangers won't win, and win big, but the best teams don't always win, which is why we bet. But for all those on the Rangers, the price on them is going down, not up, both on the series and on game 1. Someone out there is backing the Pens...


Either way, thanks for commenting Vic - my post is just trying to share info and is not in any way an attack on you - we all know you're a much better capper than me! cheers.
 

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The two main reasons I have for liking the Rangers to take this opening series is, 5 on 5 numbers, (NY ranked # one, Pens # 11), and Lundqvist over Fleury. Fleury is simply a ordinary goalie and if he wasn’t playing for Pittsburgh wouldn’t even be a .500 career goaltender. Everyone talks about his post season failures, .905 save #, 2.68 GAA in 93 playoff games but these numbers mirror his career regular season stats, .911, 2.59.

Advanced stats or not no one can deny the eye test between these two teams supports this inflated series price. One team looks lost, the other with momentum and focus.

Great information and writeup Feddz.

i have to argue this point all the time. If fleury played for say buff or fla he wouldn't have a lot of the wins he does today. last season 25% of his wins came when he gave up 3+ goals thats not elie by any means he's lucky to play for a team that used to have the firepower to bail his ass out with 4,,5,6, goals to get him a W
 

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Feddz, you know more about this than me. You make solid points throughout this thread and I ‘m impressed with your argument. Clearly I’m not a advanced stats kind of guy.

I do subscribe to the keep it simple stupid philosophy. One thing’s for sure in life, luck runs in streaks. Believing this truth I’m always looking at backing the hot and fading the cold both in hockey and baseball, (the only two sports I bet). In the long run this simple angle has been profitable for me. In this matchup we certainly have two teams polar opposite, (at present), and the line reflects that. Usually laying -200 or more betting on any hockey team to do just about anything is not a profitable long term investment. Way too much parity, variance, and puck luck in this game. But in this case I think the Rangers are the hungrier/healthier team, have the most depth, and certainly the edge in net.

As you pointed out, with the love-fest all the pundits, touts, and forum posters are having for the Rangers makes me fear the Pens are the lock. On the other hand sometimes things are just too obvious and maybe everybody’s got it right. I’m betting on the latter.

Enjoy the games sir and bol.
 

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Good stuff Feddz. Thanks man. I'm not taking either side but I do hope that the Penguins give this team a battle and take something out of N.Y. should they lose.
 

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Appreciate the comments Vic and Sherwood - have nothing but respect for your capping, whether I agree our not. And Vic I totally understand your perspective and make a ton of bets the same way, especially when the analytics aren't that clear. I try to always use a combination of both approaches when I can. I based this post solely on analytics because all the Rangers backers seemed to be using the opposite. I'm likely only making a small bet on the Penguins tonight, and then if they lose, making a bigger one on the series.
 

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Pens Series +328
Pens Game 2 +164
Jets Series +220
Jets Game 2 +124
 

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Sherwood posted Minny to win the cup on his site, and of course he took Minny over St Loo in the first round.
 

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Well I certainly was wrong about this series, although it should be noted that all 5 games were 1-goal games, including 2 overtimes. From watching the games I think the Rangers were the better team and deserve to move on, but I also think the series was a lot closer than many people expected it to be. Should be a good battle vs WAS or NYI next round!
 

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Well I certainly was wrong about this series, although it should be noted that all 5 games were 1-goal games, including 2 overtimes. From watching the games I think the Rangers were the better team and deserve to move on, but I also think the series was a lot closer than many people expected it to be. Should be a good battle vs WAS or NYI next round!

You were spot on Feddz. The difference in most of these playoff games between winning and losing is razor thin. 16 teams didn’t make the post season by accident. They are all quality squads. Such parity in this league and with the high variance of puck luck no team deserves to be a -200 favorite over anyone. Clearly a long term losing proposition.

So with all that can anyone make a argument on why the Anaheim Ducks should be -200 favs over Calgary?
 
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You were spot on Feddz. The difference in most of these playoff games between winning and losing is razor thin. 16 teams didn’t make the post season by accident. They are all quality squads. Such parity in this league and with the high variance of puck luck no team deserves to be a -200 favorite over anyone. Clearly a long term losing proposition.

So with all that can anyone make a argument on why the Anaheim Ducks should be -200 favs over Calgary?

My line for the Ducks/Flames series is -105/+105. I see it as a toss up of the coin,
a 50-50% chance of winning on either side. The only reason the Ducks are -105 & not
+100 is they have home ice if a 7th game is needed. Win or lose Calgary +196 at
Pinnacle is a gift. The NYR didn't deserve to be -200 over the Pens & the Lightning
shouldn't have been around -200 vs the Wings.
 

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Missed Sherwood taking the Wild to win it all
Like them as well
Wish I had it at more than 12-1. Saw 14-1 when they were squared up at 2-2
Which poster has a Calgary future at 500-1 or something crazy like that?
 

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You were spot on Feddz. The difference in most of these playoff games between winning and losing is razor thin. 16 teams didn’t make the post season by accident. They are all quality squads. Such parity in this league and with the high variance of puck luck no team deserves to be a -200 favorite over anyone. Clearly a long term losing proposition.

So with all that can anyone make a argument on why the Anaheim Ducks should be -200 favs over Calgary?

Thanks VV - and yeah, Calgary at +206 is definitely worth a punt.
 

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