LeBron 25+ ppg for 20th straight season

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What does the gap between MJ and the rest of the league do to assess them as all-around players? The league is more competitive than it ever has been -- it's much deeper and talented. People who played WITH MJ and others in his era even say this.

LeBron is clearly a better a passer and rebounder than MJ ever was, and that is a fact. LeBron has been the best passer, scorer, and defender in the NBA all at the same time.

He couldn't have? LeBron looked to play-make and make the right basketball play. If he hounded the ball and was coached by someone like D'Antoni, he probably would have had some seasons around 35 ppg. If James Harden can do it, so can LeBron (or a Curry for that matter).
Look, I'm never gonna suppress that hard on you have for the man, but we just disagree with this. Maybe its a difference in our age. Nothing in your statement is a FACT, and there isn't a metric out there that says LeBron was a better passer or defender than MJ. It doesn't exist cause you just the "fact" up yourself. Did I miss the Defensive player of the year award for LeBron? I must have. I see Jordans. MJ only had Rodman, Robinson, Olajuwan, Mutombo, Mourning running against him for that honor. Bunch of bums huh?

LeBron has been the best passer, scorer and defender at the same time? Since you can't prove that then I'll go ahead and say MJ was too, by a much wider margin SINCE HE DID OWN the scoring AND defending title in the same year!!

And you're really gonna bring up playing basketball "the right way" as a plus for LeBron over Jordan?? Maybe if he played basketball the right way he would have several more championships to his credit since he played with "much deeper and talented" players than Jordan EVER did.
 

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I always find it funny how people say Jordan played his entire career with a bunch of plugs as teammates

The bulls core was amazing
Not a chance. They were successful when Jordan first left, but ultimately came up short.
The next season they were below average before Jordan came back and they went on a streak.

Both Jordans and LeBrons teammates had tremendous success playing with them, just more so with MJ.
 

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Look, I'm never gonna suppress that hard on you have for the man, but we just disagree with this. Maybe its a difference in our age. Nothing in your statement is a FACT, and there isn't a metric out there that says LeBron was a better passer or defender than MJ. It doesn't exist cause you just the "fact" up yourself. Did I miss the Defensive player of the year award for LeBron? I must have. I see Jordans. MJ only had Rodman, Robinson, Olajuwan, Mutombo, Mourning running against him for that honor. Bunch of bums huh?

LeBron has been the best passer, scorer and defender at the same time? Since you can't prove that then I'll go ahead and say MJ was too, by a much wider margin SINCE HE DID OWN the scoring AND defending title in the same year!!

And you're really gonna bring up playing basketball "the right way" as a plus for LeBron over Jordan?? Maybe if he played basketball the right way he would have several more championships to his credit since he played with "much deeper and talented" players than Jordan EVER did.
When did I say LeBron was a better defender than MJ? They were both considered the best defenders in the league at their peaks (LeBron's defensive peak was with the Heat).

If you don't think LeBron is a better passer than MJ, then I don't know what to tell you lol. They had advantages over each other in certain areas. MJ was clearly a better jump shooter than LeBron, just as LeBron was clearly a better passer than MJ. No one disputes these things lol

If you're going to use "scoring title" as proof of best scorer, then we should just parade around James Harden. It's a little more nuanced than that. But if we are gonna play that game, then we can talk about how LeBron led the league in assists as well (When did MJ do that?)

I think you're just not interpreting what I said correctly (for the most part). My point was that LeBron gets criticized for hitting the open man/making the right basketball play instead of forcing up a contested, bad shot. But if you want to compare clutch performance, LeBron does shoot a higher percentage in the last few minutes of a game within one possession than MJ, on way more shot attempts. Benefits of longevity I guess
 

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Not a chance. They were successful when Jordan first left, but ultimately came up short.
What happened to the Cavs when LeBron left Cleveland?

They became the worst team in the league. Not playoff team, not mediocre, THE WORST
 

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since he played with "much deeper and talented" players than Jordan EVER did.
What are "deep and talented" players? Do you mean teams?

LeBron played with some talented second options for sure, but he hasn't played on teams nearly as deep as the Bulls. And MJ had Scottie

LeBron also had to go against better teams for the most part
 

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Also @PatsFanatic i agree 3 point shooting has gone overboard , but obviously it was expected that it would evolve over time as people got better at it/the analytics make sense

But there is an optimization point that has to be reached. Too many 3s and they become easier to defend

And this is coming from a guy who was a pure catch and shoot 3-pointer player

I attempted 174 3’s my senior year in high school, to just 7 2’s (20 game regular season)

I did it before it was cool
 

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Also LeBron could've averaged 30+ a lot more if that's all he focused on.

He is more of an all-around player than MJ

Hell LeBron averaged 30 in Year 19 lol just nuts
That's absolutely crazy. There were years where Jordan was the best offensive and best defensive player in the league. Jordan guarded the best player on the other team the whole game at times. Brick never does that. He'll take the best player a few series. This series he can't come close to guarding Joker. Joker pushes him around at will. Can't remember when Jordan ever needed help guarding anyone.
 

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Also LeBron could've averaged 30+ a lot more if that's all he focused on.

He is more of an all-around player than MJ

Hell LeBron averaged 30 in Year 19 lol just nuts
And when Jordan played point guard he had a triple double almost every night.
 

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Jordan continued to play at point guard until the end of the season. He averaged 30.4 points, 10.7 assists, 9.2 rebounds, and 2.4 steals in 39.8 minutes over 24 games.

Between March 24 and April 14, Jordan recorded a triple-double in 10 of the 11 games, including seven straight. The only time he failed to put up a triple-double was in a 114-112 overtime loss against the Pistons at home on April 7, 1989. However, he still finished with 40 points, 11 assists, and 7 rebounds.
 

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Lakers try to take positives from Game 2 collapse vs. Nuggets.​

EL SEGUNDO, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Lakers reconvened on Wednesday for the first time since their Game 2 collapse against the Denver Nuggets.
As crushing as the Denver's 20-point comeback might have felt in the moment, LeBron James said that Wednesday's film session let the Lakers see some encouraging signs.
We generated some great shots," James said. "We missed a lot of shots at the rim that we've been making throughout the course of this season.
James was 4-for-11 at shots at the rim, tied for the most layups and dunks he's missed in a playoff game since joining the Lakers, according to ESPN Stats & Information research.
"The film session was very revealing with which side of the ball we struggled at," Lakers coach Darvin Ham said. "We were great defensively. Offensively, there was a lot of shots we wish we could have back."
Ham said he likes using film sessions to grow as a team because it removes the "postgame emotions" that can skew the perception of what occurred.
To that end, Ham was asked about Anthony Davis' comments on Monday that were perceived as an indictment of the coaching staff by some when the Lakers center said, "We have stretches where we just don't know what we're doing on both ends of the floor."
Ham figured Davis' comments came in the heat of the moment and defended his coaching staff.
"I mean, I just think sometimes when plays don't turn out the way you think they should, then the frustration sets in a little bit," Ham said. "But I don't think it's [from] us not being organized. I think I have incredibly talented coaches all along my staff. We pride ourselves, whether it's a practice, a shootaround, a film session, a game or whatever, we pride ourselves on being highly efficient and organized. I just chalk that up to being frustrated. It's an emotional game, the way it ended and all of that.
"But I'll agree to disagree on that one."
No one can disagree with the tough position that the Lakers find themselves in.
Down 0-2 against a team that's now won 10 straight against them and happens to be the defending champions, Thursday's Game 3 is what the Lakers' 2023-24 season comes down to, pretty much.
After building a 12-point lead in Game 1 and a 20-point lead in Game 2, Ham said there is plenty to build on from the start of the series despite the losses.
You have to understand why you failed at something," Ham said. "It's not just, 'We failed, let's scrap the whole plan and go this way.' No. You have to understand why things went the way they went."
That said, the most important thing the Lakers have to do is prove they can hold a lead over Denver with the clock ticking down in the fourth quarter when the outcome is still being decided.
"It's all about sustainability," James said. "It doesn't matter what you can do throughout the first 47 1/2 minutes. You got to close the game, which we didn't do. We got to do a better job of that. But some of the things that we've done over the first couple games, we're very excited and happy about those.
"But we got to do a better job of closing it."
 

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Not a chance. They were successful when Jordan first left, but ultimately came up short.
The next season they were below average before Jordan came back and they went on a streak.

Both Jordans and LeBrons teammates had tremendous success playing with them, just more so with MJ.
Name one team Lebron played on that was successful after Lebron first left ?

And to say Jordan never had the talent around him that Lebron has had is laughable .
 

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It’s criminal how underrated Pippen was

I would say Pippen was a better 2nd option then any 2nd option Lebron ever had

Pippen was better then Wade ,AD , or kyrie
 

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Bulls were a perfectly constructed roster all the way around

LeBron took a bag of dicks to the finals multiple times

Not to mention Love/Kyrie both injured in 2015. Dude pushed the Warriors to 6 games with Dellavadova, Mozgov, Thompson, JR and Shumpert .
 

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When did I say LeBron was a better defender than MJ? They were both considered the best defenders in the league at their peaks (LeBron's defensive peak was with the Heat).

If you don't think LeBron is a better passer than MJ, then I don't know what to tell you lol. They had advantages over each other in certain areas. MJ was clearly a better jump shooter than LeBron, just as LeBron was clearly a better passer than MJ. No one disputes these things lol

If you're going to use "scoring title" as proof of best scorer, then we should just parade around James Harden. It's a little more nuanced than that. But if we are gonna play that game, then we can talk about how LeBron led the league in assists as well (When did MJ do that?)

I think you're just not interpreting what I said correctly (for the most part). My point was that LeBron gets criticized for hitting the open man/making the right basketball play instead of forcing up a contested, bad shot. But if you want to compare clutch performance, LeBron does shoot a higher percentage in the last few minutes of a game within one possession than MJ, on way more shot attempts. Benefits of longevity I guess
You can't compare things such as percentages when they played under different rules. Brick gets his points on layups and dunks with a 3 second defense. It's a much easier to score at a high percentage under today's rules. Ask Giannis, Luka, Joker and they'll tell you it's harder to score in Europe because there is no 3 second defense. The lane gets clogged. It was tougher back in the day with no 3 second defense and no circle under the net.
 

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Jordan gets 45 a night with a 3 second defense, a restricted area and his team scoring 114 per night.
 

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Look How Horrible The Bulls Were For 6 Straight Years After Jordan Left Them:
2003-04 Chicago 23 - 59 .280
2002-03 Chicago 30 - 52 .366
2001-02 Chicago 21 - 61 .256
2000-01 Chicago 15 - 67 .183
1999-00 Chicago 17 - 65 .207
1998-99 Chicago 13 - 37 .260 (Lockout Year)
 

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The guy led the league in scoring every full season he played, not including his retirement comeback, and 1st team all defensive team for 9 straight years! Now if your the best scorer and best defender, you're simply the best! What else is he supposed to do? Find the cure for cancer? Comparing anyone, other than Wilt, to MJ is just futile. It's MJ and Wilt and everyone else!
 

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It’s criminal how underrated Pippen was

I would say Pippen was a better 2nd option then any 2nd option Lebron ever had

Pippen was better then Wade ,AD , or kyrie
No way Pippen is better than AD!! AD, Dream, and Kareem are the only CAREER 20 10 guys that lead the league in blocks at least three times! (They didn't keep blocks stats during Wilts day, or else he would have done it every season!)

AD went to a bottom 11 team, and won the championship the very next season.
Pippen went to the second best team in the league, and didn't win shit!
He shit the bed in game 7's shooting .200 from the field vs the Pistons and Lakers!
If anything the guy is overrated! Played his entire career on great teams/Jordan!
 

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Forgot to mention Pippen's other game seven when he led the Bulls. Bulls starting 5 minus Pippen shot .528 from the field 19/36 while Pippen shot a paltry .364 from the field 8/22. Nothing underrated here! AD>Pippen!
 

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