Las Vegas Sands cuts bait: Comps....I guess the Venetian and Palazzo are Out for me.....

Search
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
Attracted to the resort’s elegant surroundings, hushed atmosphere and perks such as free hotel rooms and entertainment discounts, California resident Joy Kane was a regular at the Palazzo, gambling thousands of dollars per trip as frequently as once a month.


That three-year relationship ended two days before her scheduled arrival for a birthday getaway when her casino host called and said the resort wouldn’t honor the comped three-night stay she had reserved two months earlier. Instead, she could pay the regular hotel rate of $750 for those nights, the host said.


“That’s fine if they want to stop comping rooms, but to cancel 48 hours before our arrival is shocking,” said Kane, who owns a renewable energy company in Palm Springs, Calif. “I’ll never stay there again even if they start comping me a room.”
Late last year, parent company Las Vegas Sands boldly scrapped the promotional offers casinos typically mail to gamblers year-round to entice them to stay at their properties. The loyalty club still entitles players to free or reduced prices for amenities based on the number of points they accumulate gambling. But add-on promotions such as free hotel stays, gambling tournaments for prizes and discounts at restaurants and shows — key parts of the industry’s marketing machine — were gutted.


Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson told Wall Street analysts about his strategy this month: Fill more rooms with cash-paying tourists and conventiongoers rather than comped gamblers. Although the casinos’ biggest gamblers will still receive comps as enticements, everyone else — the vast majority of any casino’s customers — will have to earn their discounts by spending money at the resorts.


“No more comped rooms. No food and beverage. No showroom credits. We’re selling rooms,” Adelson said.


Industry experts say the move may make business sense for Sands, which isn’t as dependent on business from gamblers as other casinos. It was handled about as delicately as a ton of bricks, though.


It “could have done this quietly, without discussing it publicly,” said Randy Fine of casino consultants Fine Point Group in Las Vegas. “They basically gave the middle finger to their (customer) database.”


Sands also could get in hot water with casino regulators if it has revoked advertised promotions that have been redeemed with a reservation — a violation in many casino states, he added.
“Once an offer has been extended and redeemed, I don’t think you can welsh on it,” Fine said.
Behind the scenes, casinos frequently tighten and loosen comps based on business conditions. Competitors Wynn Resorts and MGM Resorts International say they have no plans to slash promotional offers across the board.
But some companies are starting to tighten up on comps after having loosened them to attract business in the recession, said Bill Lerner, an analyst and principal with Union Gaming Group in Las Vegas.


“The casino industry moves through these cycles of generosity on comps,” he said.
Sands isn’t your average casino company. It generates more than 80 percent of its earnings in Asia, where the gaming business is booming. Sands and Wynn Resorts, neighbors on the Strip and in China, are expected to hit new business records in Macau this year for Chinese New Year even as business lags in Las Vegas.
With only one U.S. casino outside of Nevada, Sands doesn’t need to use its Las Vegas hotel rooms to attract gamblers like some of its competitors, casino industry consultant Jeffrey Compton said.
“They don’t need a rewards system the same way that (Caesars Entertainment) needs a reward system,” said Compton, referring to a national casino chain that comps many of its rooms in Las Vegas for gamblers who frequent its regional casinos across the country.
Sands also books more rooms for convention groups than its Strip competitors because of the attached Sands Expo & Convention Center and extensive casino ballroom space. Adelson, who built his Las Vegas casino empire on the success of his once-dominant Comdex trade show, sold high-priced rooms to conventioneers before the concept became popular here. But conventiongoers don’t gamble, some casino bosses griped.


Although that may be true, conventiongoers pay significantly higher rates than tourists who typically reserve rooms through Internet discounters that might charge 40 percent less than advertised rates for rooms, said Patrick Bosworth of Duetto Consulting in Las Vegas. Catering banquets and other events for convention groups is a highly profitable side business for casinos, he added. Although some gamblers are quite profitable despite comped rooms, others were no doubt taking up the casino on a free room offer but not gambling much in return, Bosworth said.


“They saw their convention business (recovering) in October, sooner than others did, so they no longer needed that marginal casino customer,” he said.
Sands spokesman Ron Reese called the reduced comps a work in progress.
“In tough economic times we were comping rooms to people who wouldn’t necessarily have qualified. Looking back, we were probably too generous with our comps at certain levels. I think you can make the case, up and down the Strip, that operators have their hands on the dials to try and make sure their businesses are operated more efficiently and effectively in a challenging environment.”


Reese declined to discuss how the company implemented the cuts. “Valued” customers are receiving new offers, he said.
It’s a calculated risk, Fine said.


“At some point over the next 12 months, they’re going to need incremental sources of demand, whether in the depths of summer or Thanksgiving weekend,” he said. “Gamblers are proud of their loyalty and feel they’ve invested in the company. ... But they’re going to remember the company giving them the finger.”
Sands is likely the only exception to a casino culture of promotional comps that’s too ingrained to go away, Compton said.
He said an instructor told him in 1994 that all comps would vanish within three years because casinos can’t afford them. “But they’re too much a part of the picture,” Compton said


On paper, comp reductions appear to be working. Cutting expenses including comp offers contributed to a 42 percent earnings increase at Venetian and Palazzo in the fourth quarter of last year.


The savings will come at the expense of some repeat business, said Anthony Curtis, publisher of the Las Vegas Advisor newsletter.
“Gaming customers won’t stand for it — they’ll go elsewhere,” he said.


Kane and others have gone one further, flooding the Internet with complaints in gambling chat rooms and on the Venetian’s Facebook page, a “Boycott Palazzo and Venetian” Facebook page and Tripadvisor, a travel reservations website with a public comment section that’s become required reading for hotel operators nationwide.


Rather than pay for a room at Palazzo, Kane and her friends stayed at Aria, where she quickly signed up for MGM Resorts International’s loyalty program. Competitor Caesars Entertainment has also offered to comp her stay in Las Vegas.


“Casinos tighten up all the time ... and then give comps to people who complain,” Compton said. “At least (Las Vegas Sands) is being honest with people.”
 

OLD SHARP
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,779
Tokens
If you are reading this, then you should never stay at Sands and tell all of your friends!!!!!!!!
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
Funny thing is, I received an Invite in Dec. 2010

was going to try it.... but don't think I will now.
 

OLD SHARP
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,779
Tokens
Just got back from Mississippi, played for two days and grinded out a measly 300 dollars. I played the pass line for 5 or 10 dollars and then 25 to 30 behind pass line, and then 80 dollars on the outside and pressed everything 1 unit, and nobody ever had a decent roll. Had fun though!!
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
Just got back from Mississippi, played for two days and grinded out a measly 300 dollars. I played the pass line for 5 or 10 dollars and then 25 to 30 behind pass line, and then 80 dollars on the outside and pressed everything 1 unit, and nobody ever had a decent roll. Had fun though!!


Not saying this is a Trend of any kind. But it has been a while since I've seen a Good Roll.
Even for myself...... But moreso of a Good friend of mine who is a "Whale"
at anytime he could have $30k on any given roll.

Of course he doesn't win all the time, but I use to see him hold the dice for 25-40 mins at a time.
Even he hasn't had a good roll in a long time.

Starting to think they did something to the Tables @):mad:
 

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
365
Tokens
i've been to vegas 6 times in the past 12 months, never have i gotten a room at any of the sands props, dont no why

have stayed at the bellagio and aria all 6 times, comped, however, not sure why sands is the hardest palce to get comps....

n e one been to the new cosmopolitan yet, going back to vegas in 3 weeks, booked at the aria now, was trying to see if its worth switching to the cosmo.....i heard its a hilton prop n i have hilton points just dont no if i should yet
 

OLD SHARP
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
1,779
Tokens
Not saying this is a Trend of any kind. But it has been a while since I've seen a Good Roll.
Even for myself...... But moreso of a Good friend of mine who is a "Whale"
at anytime he could have $30k on any given roll.

Of course he doesn't win all the time, but I use to see him hold the dice for 25-40 mins at a time.
Even he hasn't had a good roll in a long time.

Starting to think they did something to the Tables @):mad:


Do you believe in controlling the dice?? and I bet your buddy doesn't have to worry about getting comped :dancefool
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
I'm going back some time, but about 7 years ago Him and another good friend ( Bernie ) * some here know who he is *
Both Held the dice for about 40-45 mins..... Everyone made money that Night !

Had the best time in my Life ( gambling wise ) That table was Rocking & Rolling !

we had friends there that normally bet $10 on the line, were betting $25-$50 !
it was Funny shit !

We all ate and drank like Pigs that night ! @):mad:
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
5,391
Tokens
This is really weird. Hardly a week goes by without me getting some kind of discounted room offer e-mail from the Palazzo. It isn't totally comped (I had those a few years ago), but at least they're discounted. I had no idea they were cutting back, and I'm not even close to whale status. But the economics are pretty simple: would they rather have a totally empty room or one that's comped where a patron will probably at least spend some money there?

Reneging on a comp deal at the last second is a horrendously bad PR move by Sands. Palazzo probably has the nicest rooms of any hotel on the strip, but with the amount of other options, it's very easy for customers to take their business elsewhere. A lot of companies are paranoid about customer satisfaction nowadays...Sands is about to find out the hard way what happens if you screw with them.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,721
Tokens
Funny this pops up today. Was talking with my boss the other day about Vegas as he goes about twice a year and he was telling me that their next trip they are not staying at Venetian or Pallazo, which is where they alwasy stay, simply because the amenities have been cut way back. Looks like their are trying to nickle and dime their way to more profit.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
7,924
Tokens
As a shareholder I want Shelly to make me some money. If that means cutting out some comps, then cut away! Shelly has it dialed in good and this won't be but a blip on the radar screen. Go gamble at MGM or Aria. We don't need ya!
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
7,948
Tokens
From what I undrstand from a Las Vegas Advisor thread, they've changed their minds and are allowing the comps that were originally granted.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
99,709
Tokens
Looks like it's Everywhere..................

Atlantic City casinos cut back on freebies amid revenue slump


Associated Press
Thursday, April 23, 2009 | 3:25 p.m.


With casinos across the country taking in less money because of the recession, many are also handing out less freebies to gamblers.


In Atlantic City, the nation's second-largest gambling market, casinos made a 12.4 percent cut in March on the free hotel rooms, meals and show tickets they handed out to keep gamblers coming back.


The situation is much the same in other casino markets, including Las Vegas and the Midwest, where declining revenues forced casinos to look even more closely at how they dole out precious cash.
"We're much more cautious with our money," said Rob Stillwell, a spokesman for Boyd Gaming, which owns casinos in Las Vegas and Atlantic City and in Midwestern and Southern states. "You've got to be more strategic in targeting your customers."


Shelton Brown and his wife Alberta have been coming to Atlantic City from Baltimore since the first casino opened here 31 years ago.
"We can see a drastic change," he said. "It used to be your bus would pull in, they'd hand you $25 and a coupon for a free meal. They're cutting that out now."
Alberta Brown said it's also harder to get a free drink inside the casinos.
"It used to be you couldn't turn around without someone being right there offering you something," she said. "They came looking for you. Now you have to go looking for them."


For the first quarter of the year, Atlantic City's 11 casinos had $339.6 million in complimentary expenses, down 9.2 percent from the first quarter a year ago. Revenues at Atlantic City's casinos fell 7.6 percent last year, and so far this year, are down 16.2 percent.
Revenues at Nevada casinos were down 18.1 percent in February, and 14.6 in January.


Interviews with casino executives and analysts show that most major gambling markets are reducing their comp spending.
"You're seeing comps coming down because the market is just not allowing (casinos) to be as generous as they once were," said Steve Norton, a gambling industry veteran who runs a Missouri casino management company. "It's just not as viable to do that now.


"A lot of people are out of work," he said. "They have more time to spend in the casinos; they just don't have money to spend in them."
Resorts Atlantic City, where Norton was once vice president, is fighting off a foreclosure threat by its lender. Its co-owner, Nicholas Ribis, told New Jersey casino regulators earlier this year that Resorts had been giving away "too much food, too much drink, too much everything."


In March, Resorts gave away $6.3 million worth of comps, mostly in rooms and gambling credits to players. In March 2008, the total was over $9 million.
George Maloof, owner of the Palms Casino Resort in Las Vegas, said his casino's comp expenses have remained relatively flat as it deals with the downturn in Sin City. He said costs can go up as casinos try to gain new players through promotions, but operators can quickly tell if their offers work in luring guests to gamble.


When costs go down, Maloof said, it means casinos are focusing on giving away comps to gamblers whose play make the freebies worthwhile to the casino.
"It's usually because you have somebody who gave a comp who didn't deserve it," Maloof said. "It's probably a segment of your business that isn't playing to those comps."


David Schwartz, director of the Center for Gaming Research at the University of Nevada, said freebies typically go in cycles as casinos try to one-up each other to attract players, then pull back when their giveaways no longer become worthwhile. He said anecdotal evidence suggests comps have gone down in Las Vegas.


Some casinos made a conscious choice to cut back on comps when business worsened. The three Atlantic City casinos owned by Trump Entertainment Resorts have been telling investors for years that they are cutting back comps to try to whittle down massive debt that was holding the company back. Earlier this year, the company filed for bankruptcy.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,110,121
Messages
13,465,986
Members
99,512
Latest member
trolldawg
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com