all this motherfucker does is talk about war and bombing other countries.i say quit talkin like a bitch and go sign up.go to iraq for 1 year and experience what war is like.if you make it back alive,i guarantee you will be a pot smokin,anti-war,tree huggin,****** lovin liberal.youre a fuckin joke,man.keep up the good work.:finger:
Excuse me for spamming your ad hominem thread, but I thought I'd take this moment to remind our good readers about the outstanding job our troops are doing over in Iraq.
We owe Gen Petraeus and his boyz nothing but our respect and deepest gratitude.
Without the brave men and women in the United States military and their commander in chief, Iraq would have become the new Vietnam, al-Qaida would have been emboldened and thugs like al Sadr would be planning the next massive attack on America.
None of this would have been possible under President Obama or any other Democrat, so this Nov remember to vote responsibly.
God Bless America and our troops!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Sadr Surrenders: Mahdi Army To Become Social Services Agency!
BAGHDAD — Anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr — long a thorn in the side of the U.S. military and Iraqi government — intends to disarm his once-dominant Mahdi Army militia and remake it as a social-services organization.
The transformation would represent a significant turnabout for a group that, as recently as earlier this year, was seen as one of the most destabilizing anti-American forces in Iraq. For much of the past several years, the Mahdi Army, headed by Mr. Sadr, a Shiite cleric, controlled sizable chunks of Baghdad and other cities. Its brand of pro-Shiite activism had the side effect of pitting Iraqis against each other, helping to stir worries of civil war.
Recently, however, the group has been hit by a largely successful Iraqi military crackdown against militia members operating as criminal gangs. At the same time, Mr. Sadr’s popular support is dwindling: Residents who once viewed the Mahdi Army as champions of the poor became alienated by what they saw as its thuggish behavior.
A new brochure, obtained by The Wall Street Journal and confirmed by Mr. Sadr’s chief spokesman, Sheik Salah al-Obeidi, states that the Mahdi Army will now be guided by Shiite spirituality instead of anti-American militancy. The group will focus on education, religion and social justice, according to the brochure, which is aimed at Mr. Sadr’s followers. The brochure also states that it “is not allowed to use arms at all.”
Posters have been put up in some areas of Baghdad saying a new direction for the Mahdi Army will be announced at this Friday’s prayers.
The Mahdi Army has long stated that its principal goal is withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Since talks of setting a goal for a timetable for withdrawal have emerged — as part of the long-term security deal between the U.S. and Iraq currently nearing completion — the movement now intends to try to help Iraqi society via peaceful means, according to Mr. Obeidi.
Disarmament is far from certain. The group is ridden with internal strife, and Mr. Sadr now is believed to spend significant time outside the country, in Iran.
U.S. military spokesman Col. Jerry O’Hara said the military welcomed the news, but said “the proof is always in the actions and not just the words, so we’ll take a wait-and-see approach.”
The Mahdi Army’s makeover is at least partly a reaction to the loss of popular support. Previously, many Iraqis blamed the U.S. and the Iraqi government for fighting that erupted with the militia, but in the most recent battles that began in March, many residents turned against the militia because they were fed up with its criminal and violent activities, including kidnapping and smuggling.
This reorganization reflects a major effort by Mr. Sadr to regain grass-roots support and weed out some more extremist elements. Mr. Sadr has expressed frustration at individuals who have continued fighting U.S. and Iraqi security forces despite a cease-fire hammered out in May, following the Iraqi crackdown that began in Basra in late March.
He faces big challenges. Hard-liners within the Mahdi Army will likely reject Mr. Sadr’s new strategy, just as they have ignored his orders to freeze violent activities as part of a cease-fire. These members have also been threatening — and assassinating — rivals who support the cease-fire.
This leaves in question whether more moderate members will take the risky step of working to implement Mr. Sadr’s strategy, or instead remain underground as many of them have. “We know it will take time to get rid of these bad elements, and even some good people joined them because they fell into a trap,” said Sheik Abu Ali, a moderate Mahdi Army leader and cleric whose brother was kidnapped by fellow Mahdi Army members because of his views. Since then, he stopped his religious work but is hoping the new strategy will make him feel safe enough to resume teaching.
If successful, Mr. Sadr’s shift could widen his role on Iraq’s political stage. Mr. Sadr’s followers already have seats in Parliament. The group also plans to endorse independent candidates it favors in the next provincial elections, although the movement won’t field candidates itself.
Logical Step
Kenneth Pollack, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said turning the Mahdi Army into a civic and political organization was a logical step given the weakening of the militia after the crackdown in Basra, Sadr City and Amarah. Indeed, in the long term, it could help legitimize the movement. “If the government fails to deliver on basic services and other needs of the Iraqis, Sadr followers could use their new organization to tell people they should look to them as voice of change,” Mr. Pollack said.
Until recently, the Mahdi Army had enjoyed widespread popular support in areas of Baghdad and in the southern Shiite area of Iraq because it was known to help the poor by giving them money, food and other aid. But its popularity began to wane in the past few months as some members turned increasingly to criminal activity such as taking control of gas stations and extorting money from merchants in exchange for protection.
According to the new brochure, the Mahdi Army will now adhere to the guiding principle of “al-Mumahidoon,” which translates roughly as “those who are paving the way” in Arabic. It’s a reference to people who are awaiting the return of Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi, a revered religious figure in Shia Islam, who Shiites believe will come back to rid the world of evil and injustice.
Mr. Sadr isn’t giving up armed resistance entirely. Mr. Obeidi said Mr. Sadr will continue to direct small, special armed cells for limited military operations against U.S. forces. He said specific details about these cells, and how they can be distinguished from rogue Mahdi Army members, will be publicized at a future date.
The actions of the Mahdi Army have enormous impact on Iraq’s stability. For instance, the Basra military crackdown on rogue members in late March sparked fighting across southern Iraq and in Baghdad.
Senior American and British commanders say they have increasingly come to conclude that Mr. Sadr’s once-feared militia is in disarray. American officers say Mr. Sadr now spends most of his time in neighboring Iran, where he has talked of pursuing a more advanced course of religious studies.
Earlier this summer, Mr. Sadr said he was creating a new group dedicated solely to attacking American forces. But in a recent interview, Lt. Gen. Lloyd Austin, the day-to-day commander of all American troops here, said he had “not seen any evidence that the group exists.”
The southern city of Basra had long been one of Mr. Sadr’s primary strongholds, but it is now under the control of the Iraqi army. Mortar attacks have fallen by close to 90%, and the number of bodies that turn up in the city’s morgue each day has declined from 30 earlier this year to one or two today.
Tahseen al-Shaikhli, spokesman for the Baghdad security plan, said the Iraqi government is pleased with Mr. Sadr’s stated plan for the militia. “We welcome any news about Iraqis laying down their arms and working to rebuild this country,” Mr. Shaikhli said.
Regrouping
While the Mahdi Army has been weakened since the Iraqi military operations earlier this year, the extremist elements are regrouping and being trained, with an estimated 5,000 members in Iran. Some U.S. military officials worry there is a chance that the extremists could return.
Abu Karar al-Sadri, a Mahdi Army leader in Baghdad’s Rusafa neighborhood who has been against the cease-fire, says he and his men will continue operations despite this new direction for the Mahdi Army. He acknowledged that his fighters had been negatively affected by the crackdown but said they are rebuilding. “We will continue to fight until the occupation is driven out of Iraq,” he said.
Mr. Sadr began moving away from military operations when he ordered a cease-fire last August after Mahdi Army members clashed with government forces in the southern city of Karbala during a Shiite religious holiday. The fighting represented growing rivalry between Sadr followers and supporters of the main Shiite parties in government, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq and the Islamic Dawa Party. In February, Mr. Sadr extended the cease-fire for an additional six months.
Since then, several moderate Sadr followers who favored the cease-fire have been killed. In April, Riyadh al-Nouri, director of Mr. Sadr’s office in Najaf, was gunned down following Friday prayers after a rumor circulated that he was supporting the Americans.
Mr. Abu Ali, the cleric — who had been a good friend of Mr. Nouri’s — has gone underground since gunmen abducted his brother and threatened to kill him unless he stopped supporting the cease-fire and speaking out against more extremist militia members.
“We want people to come back to the Sadr movement and believe in us again,” he said. “We hope this new direction will allow us to rebuild our relationship with the people and make them believe we are good again.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:finger: you Pelosi-Reid-Obama Surrendercrats! :finger:
We owe Gen Petraeus and his boyz nothing but our respect and deepest gratitude.
Without the brave men and women in the United States military and their commander in chief, Iraq would have become the new Vietnam, al-Qaida would have been emboldened and thugs like al Sadr would be planning the next massive attack on America.
None of this would have been possible under President Obama or any other Democrat, so this Nov remember to vote responsibly.
God Bless America and our troops!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Sadr Surrenders: Mahdi Army To Become Social Services Agency!
BAGHDAD — Anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr — long a thorn in the side of the U.S. military and Iraqi government — intends to disarm his once-dominant Mahdi Army militia and remake it as a social-services organization.
The transformation would represent a significant turnabout for a group that, as recently as earlier this year, was seen as one of the most destabilizing anti-American forces in Iraq. For much of the past several years, the Mahdi Army, headed by Mr. Sadr, a Shiite cleric, controlled sizable chunks of Baghdad and other cities. Its brand of pro-Shiite activism had the side effect of pitting Iraqis against each other, helping to stir worries of civil war.
Recently, however, the group has been hit by a largely successful Iraqi military crackdown against militia members operating as criminal gangs. At the same time, Mr. Sadr’s popular support is dwindling: Residents who once viewed the Mahdi Army as champions of the poor became alienated by what they saw as its thuggish behavior.
A new brochure, obtained by The Wall Street Journal and confirmed by Mr. Sadr’s chief spokesman, Sheik Salah al-Obeidi, states that the Mahdi Army will now be guided by Shiite spirituality instead of anti-American militancy. The group will focus on education, religion and social justice, according to the brochure, which is aimed at Mr. Sadr’s followers. The brochure also states that it “is not allowed to use arms at all.”
Posters have been put up in some areas of Baghdad saying a new direction for the Mahdi Army will be announced at this Friday’s prayers.
The Mahdi Army has long stated that its principal goal is withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Since talks of setting a goal for a timetable for withdrawal have emerged — as part of the long-term security deal between the U.S. and Iraq currently nearing completion — the movement now intends to try to help Iraqi society via peaceful means, according to Mr. Obeidi.
Disarmament is far from certain. The group is ridden with internal strife, and Mr. Sadr now is believed to spend significant time outside the country, in Iran.
U.S. military spokesman Col. Jerry O’Hara said the military welcomed the news, but said “the proof is always in the actions and not just the words, so we’ll take a wait-and-see approach.”
The Mahdi Army’s makeover is at least partly a reaction to the loss of popular support. Previously, many Iraqis blamed the U.S. and the Iraqi government for fighting that erupted with the militia, but in the most recent battles that began in March, many residents turned against the militia because they were fed up with its criminal and violent activities, including kidnapping and smuggling.
This reorganization reflects a major effort by Mr. Sadr to regain grass-roots support and weed out some more extremist elements. Mr. Sadr has expressed frustration at individuals who have continued fighting U.S. and Iraqi security forces despite a cease-fire hammered out in May, following the Iraqi crackdown that began in Basra in late March.
He faces big challenges. Hard-liners within the Mahdi Army will likely reject Mr. Sadr’s new strategy, just as they have ignored his orders to freeze violent activities as part of a cease-fire. These members have also been threatening — and assassinating — rivals who support the cease-fire.
This leaves in question whether more moderate members will take the risky step of working to implement Mr. Sadr’s strategy, or instead remain underground as many of them have. “We know it will take time to get rid of these bad elements, and even some good people joined them because they fell into a trap,” said Sheik Abu Ali, a moderate Mahdi Army leader and cleric whose brother was kidnapped by fellow Mahdi Army members because of his views. Since then, he stopped his religious work but is hoping the new strategy will make him feel safe enough to resume teaching.
If successful, Mr. Sadr’s shift could widen his role on Iraq’s political stage. Mr. Sadr’s followers already have seats in Parliament. The group also plans to endorse independent candidates it favors in the next provincial elections, although the movement won’t field candidates itself.
Logical Step
Kenneth Pollack, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said turning the Mahdi Army into a civic and political organization was a logical step given the weakening of the militia after the crackdown in Basra, Sadr City and Amarah. Indeed, in the long term, it could help legitimize the movement. “If the government fails to deliver on basic services and other needs of the Iraqis, Sadr followers could use their new organization to tell people they should look to them as voice of change,” Mr. Pollack said.
Until recently, the Mahdi Army had enjoyed widespread popular support in areas of Baghdad and in the southern Shiite area of Iraq because it was known to help the poor by giving them money, food and other aid. But its popularity began to wane in the past few months as some members turned increasingly to criminal activity such as taking control of gas stations and extorting money from merchants in exchange for protection.
According to the new brochure, the Mahdi Army will now adhere to the guiding principle of “al-Mumahidoon,” which translates roughly as “those who are paving the way” in Arabic. It’s a reference to people who are awaiting the return of Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi, a revered religious figure in Shia Islam, who Shiites believe will come back to rid the world of evil and injustice.
Mr. Sadr isn’t giving up armed resistance entirely. Mr. Obeidi said Mr. Sadr will continue to direct small, special armed cells for limited military operations against U.S. forces. He said specific details about these cells, and how they can be distinguished from rogue Mahdi Army members, will be publicized at a future date.
The actions of the Mahdi Army have enormous impact on Iraq’s stability. For instance, the Basra military crackdown on rogue members in late March sparked fighting across southern Iraq and in Baghdad.
Senior American and British commanders say they have increasingly come to conclude that Mr. Sadr’s once-feared militia is in disarray. American officers say Mr. Sadr now spends most of his time in neighboring Iran, where he has talked of pursuing a more advanced course of religious studies.
Earlier this summer, Mr. Sadr said he was creating a new group dedicated solely to attacking American forces. But in a recent interview, Lt. Gen. Lloyd Austin, the day-to-day commander of all American troops here, said he had “not seen any evidence that the group exists.”
The southern city of Basra had long been one of Mr. Sadr’s primary strongholds, but it is now under the control of the Iraqi army. Mortar attacks have fallen by close to 90%, and the number of bodies that turn up in the city’s morgue each day has declined from 30 earlier this year to one or two today.
Tahseen al-Shaikhli, spokesman for the Baghdad security plan, said the Iraqi government is pleased with Mr. Sadr’s stated plan for the militia. “We welcome any news about Iraqis laying down their arms and working to rebuild this country,” Mr. Shaikhli said.
Regrouping
While the Mahdi Army has been weakened since the Iraqi military operations earlier this year, the extremist elements are regrouping and being trained, with an estimated 5,000 members in Iran. Some U.S. military officials worry there is a chance that the extremists could return.
Abu Karar al-Sadri, a Mahdi Army leader in Baghdad’s Rusafa neighborhood who has been against the cease-fire, says he and his men will continue operations despite this new direction for the Mahdi Army. He acknowledged that his fighters had been negatively affected by the crackdown but said they are rebuilding. “We will continue to fight until the occupation is driven out of Iraq,” he said.
Mr. Sadr began moving away from military operations when he ordered a cease-fire last August after Mahdi Army members clashed with government forces in the southern city of Karbala during a Shiite religious holiday. The fighting represented growing rivalry between Sadr followers and supporters of the main Shiite parties in government, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq and the Islamic Dawa Party. In February, Mr. Sadr extended the cease-fire for an additional six months.
Since then, several moderate Sadr followers who favored the cease-fire have been killed. In April, Riyadh al-Nouri, director of Mr. Sadr’s office in Najaf, was gunned down following Friday prayers after a rumor circulated that he was supporting the Americans.
Mr. Abu Ali, the cleric — who had been a good friend of Mr. Nouri’s — has gone underground since gunmen abducted his brother and threatened to kill him unless he stopped supporting the cease-fire and speaking out against more extremist militia members.
“We want people to come back to the Sadr movement and believe in us again,” he said. “We hope this new direction will allow us to rebuild our relationship with the people and make them believe we are good again.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:finger: you Pelosi-Reid-Obama Surrendercrats! :finger:
Bomb, bomb, bomb the evil doers....
Al Qaida confirms top bomb expert killed in US strike
Published: August 03, 2008, 16:01
Dubai: A top Al Qaida bomb maker was killed along with three other militants in a suspected US strike in Pakistan last week, Al Qaida confirmed on Sunday.
A statement on Islamist websites said Abu Khabab Al Masri, a chemical and biological weapons expert, was killed in an attack on a house in Pakistan’s tribal area which borders Afghanistan.
Al Qaida said Masri, who carried a $5 million US bounty, had left behind several students who would avenge his death.
Al Qaida's leader in Afghanistan, Mustafa Abu Al Yazid signed the statement which also gave the names of the three others. It said some of their children were killed.
A Pakistani Taliban spokesman on Saturday denied a US media report that top Al Qaida member Ayman Al Zawahri had died in the same airstrike.
Masri, a 55-year-old Egyptian chemist, was a top bomb expert.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another threatening monster turned to harmless dust, courtesy of the US military.
Hurray for the Bush Doctrine -- the good guys keeping the civilized world safe!!
arty: arty: arty: arty: arty:
Al Qaida confirms top bomb expert killed in US strike
Published: August 03, 2008, 16:01
Dubai: A top Al Qaida bomb maker was killed along with three other militants in a suspected US strike in Pakistan last week, Al Qaida confirmed on Sunday.
A statement on Islamist websites said Abu Khabab Al Masri, a chemical and biological weapons expert, was killed in an attack on a house in Pakistan’s tribal area which borders Afghanistan.
Al Qaida said Masri, who carried a $5 million US bounty, had left behind several students who would avenge his death.
Al Qaida's leader in Afghanistan, Mustafa Abu Al Yazid signed the statement which also gave the names of the three others. It said some of their children were killed.
A Pakistani Taliban spokesman on Saturday denied a US media report that top Al Qaida member Ayman Al Zawahri had died in the same airstrike.
Masri, a 55-year-old Egyptian chemist, was a top bomb expert.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another threatening monster turned to harmless dust, courtesy of the US military.
Hurray for the Bush Doctrine -- the good guys keeping the civilized world safe!!
arty: arty: arty: arty: arty:
This post isn't about all of the left wingers - only a select group who can't seem to develop the intellect to formulate a strong position and put that positon in words - all they seem able to do is march lockstep to and parrot the party line.
Rather than attempt to refute a posters position, they insult that poster or his family.
If JoeC did serve, the comment would be that he wasn't in a danger zone - and if he were in a danger zone, the comment would be that he was a REMF - and if he weren't a REMF, the comment would be that he wasn't on point, if he was on point, the comment would be about his mother or wife.
Meanwhile, as they throw insults far and wide, the other side are rife with excuses for their own short comings - I didn't serve because I had a booboo, or I did serve, but the war made me a drunk, or some other inane comment to cover for a lack of commitment and self control.
It seems to me that the anti-war crowd are the insulters and demeaners on this forum - rarely producing a worthwhile debate while regularly making acid comments about posters (or their families) who suppoprt the other side of the debate.
Rather than attempt to refute a posters position, they insult that poster or his family.
If JoeC did serve, the comment would be that he wasn't in a danger zone - and if he were in a danger zone, the comment would be that he was a REMF - and if he weren't a REMF, the comment would be that he wasn't on point, if he was on point, the comment would be about his mother or wife.
Meanwhile, as they throw insults far and wide, the other side are rife with excuses for their own short comings - I didn't serve because I had a booboo, or I did serve, but the war made me a drunk, or some other inane comment to cover for a lack of commitment and self control.
It seems to me that the anti-war crowd are the insulters and demeaners on this forum - rarely producing a worthwhile debate while regularly making acid comments about posters (or their families) who suppoprt the other side of the debate.
BB, you will be happy to know that it is the same old army that it was when we were in.
My niece's husband is a 1st Sgt in the Army reserve. They received an order that all orders will be carried out in the order that they were received. They now have 2 orders concerning some old barracks. The first one says to paint them the 2nd says to tear them down.
Military intelligence is still a contradiction in terms.
My niece's husband is a 1st Sgt in the Army reserve. They received an order that all orders will be carried out in the order that they were received. They now have 2 orders concerning some old barracks. The first one says to paint them the 2nd says to tear them down.
Military intelligence is still a contradiction in terms.
I have called Joke C out on this many times and even posted links for him for signing up. If these guys are as dangerous to the world like he says of course he would join. He is just in here making a few bucks by posting in here.
BB it still cracks me up that you support and defend this clown. He is obviously very un-american and only likes seeing harm to our country. Personally I think the USA is on the decline and can't see myself ever moving back. That said I still love my country and would love to see it rebound, I just highly doubt it as the left and right try to take our money and take away our rights.....good luck up there.
BB it still cracks me up that you support and defend this clown. He is obviously very un-american and only likes seeing harm to our country. Personally I think the USA is on the decline and can't see myself ever moving back. That said I still love my country and would love to see it rebound, I just highly doubt it as the left and right try to take our money and take away our rights.....good luck up there.
I agree about the military.
But this string is about insulting JoeC rather than debating him "all this motherfucker does is talk about war and bombing other countries.i say quit talkin like a bitch and go sign up.go to iraq for 1 year and experience what war is like."
This is the argument one poster gives against Joes political position - and you can bet a ton that this same character supported the wars that Clinton started even though Clinton was never in the military; and you can bet that this same poster supports Obama, although Obama never served.
And that's what angers me - you take a political position in saupport of the war and these morons crawl out of the woodwork trying to stifle your opposing positions because you "never served" or was a "REMF" or some other foolishness.
What a pile of crap!
I defend JoeC because I agree with his posts - me and others have also been attacked for our position supporting the war.
BB it still cracks me up that you support and defend this clown. He is obviously very un-american and only likes seeing harm to our country.
This from a person who claims to be an American while permanently living in a foreign country! :missingte
Joe C is a fucking warmonger.
And this is my point!
Why is he a warmonger?
Because he believes that the attacks on the US won't stop until we stop them?
Because he believes that we are right in bringing the war to them - recognizing that there have been many attempts, but no successes to attack the US since 911?
Because he believes that terrorist forces and supporters are bleeding themselves dry with attacks in Iraq?
Because he believes we need a secure source of middle-east oil because the Democrats won't allow the development of domestic sources and the bguilding of more domestic refineries?
Because...Because...because.
How many times in the course of history have appeasers and pacifists been proven wrong?
