It is only July, and bettors already are football cry babies: The Okie State idiocy.

[Fezzik]

The facts:

1. Oklahoma State is a team that clearly should be lined to win around 6.5 games this year.

2. Pinny obviously "copied" the line for Ohio State when they opened up their lines. Even a punch drunk incompetent handicapper would not have made this team at 8 or higher.

3. Select bettors saw the value and hammered the "under" 8.5. The betting continued until the under hit -180 where the line was finally pulled. Absent this, the line no doubt would still be betting into and would have hit -280.

4. Pinny ruled (correctly) the line to be clearly wrong, and voided the bets promptly.

Last I checked, Oklahoma State hasn't started playing yet this year. This is hardly the type of outrageous past post situations where books wait for a game to start/end and then give the bettors the business.

Instead they put up an Ohio State Line for Okie State, off by two games.

Where the real bull**** being dealt out is all the posters trying to justify 8.5 was a "realistic" line on this game as Okie State reasonably will win 7 or 8 this year. Sure, the Okie State alumni may say this, but we all know the truth. The true line is around 6.5 or 6.6.

Pinny opened a realistic "bad" line on Okie State at 6, and they will live with the sharps betting over at that line without blinking even if it goes to over 6 -200. THAT was a legit line they put up, and that they made. Pinny has no problem eating 100 cents line moves, and paying.

But anyone who thinks 8.5 was anything but a huge mistake has been betting too much WNBA out there, and needs a vacation. Especially if they have seafood in their name (sorry Fish).

 

[BuzzRavanaugh]

I think this is a very good post. Agree with everything Fezzik says.

I would like to chalk this up to even the best and brightest can and do make errors.

 

[CedarCreaker]

Think 6 over/under is good number for the Okie Aggies...lost their QB to MLB and best reciever went to the NFL...going to be tough year for them IMO...

 

[VaultedTreehouse]

Agreed. Pinny is the best. Keep betting bad lines and I hope they boot you...No question that was a bad line. And they didn't adjust it in Mid-August either.

 

[Banned4Life]

I agree with Fezz here.

The difference between Pinny and how a lot of other places would've handled this: Pinny caught their mistake in a matter of hours and immediately cancelled the wagers AND notified everyone who made that wager. Other places would've just waited until the bet won before catching their mistake.

 

[JimFiestSux]

CryBaby,lol, Pinny posted a bad line and smart players jumped on it! You think Pinny is great, I hear their customer service sucks!What makes Pinny better than any other top tier book?? Wager should've been pulled immediately, not after it moves all day!! Yes 8 & 1/2 is a little off but Pinny says that ONCE A WAGER IS IN THEIR SYSTEM IT CAN'T BE PULLED ,WELL THEY LIED and thats a no no in offshore!!

 

[Fishhead]

OKLAHOMA STATE WOULD ONLY BE FAVORED IN 5 OF 11 GAMES IF THEY WERE TO PLAY EACH SCHEDULED TEAM TODAY......BASED ON MY RESEARCH and PROJECTED POINT SPREAD ANALYSIS......SEE SCHEDULE BELOW.

They should win all the games I have them favored in and they may/should be able to knock off one of the teams they will be only a slight underdog in(they give Oklahoma fits).

Having said that, I see this team finishing at 6-5 in more case scenarios than any other.

Sep 4 @ UCLA.....................DOG
Sep 11 Tulsa ..................FAV
Sep 18 Southern Methodist......FAV
Oct 2 Iowa State...............FAV
Oct 9 @Colorado...................DOG
Oct 16 Texas A&M...............FAV
Oct 23 @Missouri..................DOG
Oct 30 Oklahoma.................. DOG
Nov 6 @Texas......................DOG
Nov 13 Baylor..................FAV
Nov 27 @Texas Tech ...............DOG

 

[drunkguy]

FISHHEAD-

Yesterday you were arguing that 8.5 was not a bad number, and gave a number of reasons why that is reasonable. Today you say 6 is the most likely number. Make up your mind, and don't just change your opinion becuase of Fezzik's post.

I posted this elsewhere yesterday:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My only problem is that I think the onus should be on the book to check their lines. Hell, SIA could pull down every single one of their Monday night games claiming a "bad line" since they are sometimes 2 points or more off a consensus line.

I don't get to void a bet if I make a mistake, neither should they. I realize that mistakes are sometimes made, but the "bad line" excuse can be abused IMO.

Also, when a bet i splaced, it is also giving the book INFORMATION on where the line should be. They "pay" the sharps for this info in the form of accepting bets and then getting to move the line based on that information. If they can get the info and then void the bet, it is a huge advantage in their corner.

I understand the arguments on the other side, but still don't like the idea of a book being able to void a placed and accepted wager. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I am in the minority here, but I believe a company should stand behind their product, and a sportsbook's product is its lines. I have argued time and time before that a book should not hang a line unless they are willing to take action on it. If you don't have confidence in the accuracy of your lines (clerical error or not), either lower your limits to reduce your exposure, or hire another person to proofread them.

I have made a lot of "clerical errors" myself when making bets, yet I never get the chance to void my wagers. I have to suck it up and try to minimize my losses by buying back.

If you go to Wal-Mart and a product is priced incorrectly, you get the first one at the price that it is marked at. Almost every major retailer has this policy. Many will give you the first item free because they have a "price accuracy guarantee".

It is especially important for Pinnacle to have a "price accuracy guarantee" when they depend on scalpers for a large chunk of their action.

 

[lakerfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is especially important for Pinnacle to have a "price accuracy guarantee" when they depend on scalpers for a large chunk of their action. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hell yeah. They make a fortune off of them. If a player can't be sure his Pinnacle bet will stand, it is Pinnacle's loss.

 

[THE SHRINK]

I couldn't agree with Fezzik more...

Not to mention that it was clearly stated in Pinnacle's Rules and Regulations, that they may cancel bets due to what they perceive as an honest mistake and or bad line...

Ken

 

[Fishhead]

Drunk-

Even though I project them PERSONALLY as going 6-5 in more scenarios than anything else, I still stand by my reasoning the 8.5 was not a BAD LINE in the sense where it was an OBVIOUS bad line.

This can be a very hard topic to hash back and forth in a forum setting as there are so many variables that come into play here as I mentioned to others yesterday.

Truth be told, there can be very solid arguments on both sides of the fence in this one made by both parties and what they believe should have been done and what was the correct way.

Realize that sounds wishy-washy, but that is the truth.

Drunk- I think the bets should have not been canceled, thats my unbiased opinion of the situation.

Like I said, this is a very hard situation to debate in a forum setting.

Example- I would have honored the bets, but I have no MAJOR objections to what people such as Fezzik pointed out in his above post either as I respect everybodys opinion on this matter if they are at least coming across as being somewhat reasonable.

 

[Journeyman]

This is even debateable? Rules are clear, no games played...

Maybe the only I could see with Pinnacle is the slow reaction (moving the number along the way ) then finally realizing the mistake...

Does this sort of thing also leave open the door when a key player goes down? Like the recent Ricky Williams situation?

I think that's much different...

 

[JimFiestSux]

Bottom line is GOOD BOOK = HONORED WAGERS!! If there is a cap on the price you can wager HOW MUCH was wagered ?? I'm sure they weren't hammered on a future NCAA line!! Well Pinny players NOW you know a wager can be cancelled after posted, like they did!

 

[HateTheRiverCard]

I really had no opinion on this until I saw the schedule Fish posted. Come on... after looking at their schedule they have 11 games and 3 GUARANTEED LOSSES on the road to COLORADO, TEXAS and TEXAS TECH, toss in another tough game vs UCLA and a home game against OKLAHOMA and they are lucky to win even 6.

It seems as though most are upset that Pinnacle cancelled all bets because they figure Pinnacle being a top book should honor all bets taken. The bottom line is they have rules in place for errors such as this and they abide by them. If the shot takers don't like that then find another book.

 

[wantitall4moi]

I am usre it was a mistake. I was pretty outspoken, but it is clear to me they must have some new data entry guys there or something.

I alluded to it yesterday, and it happened again yesterday. They are putting up odds on their runlilnes that aren't even close. But those change immediatiely, might be as simple as a "+" instead of a "-", to having the same odds for the opponents. I have seen that one a few times recently.

So they obviously have people entering stuff that are not thorough enough, or are not checking.

My only problem was that it took so long to come down, not long interms of time, but it must have has several moves along the way. Then went out of their way to make a point by putting up an extremely low number. They couold have put up 7 and that would have probably been OK, but wouldn't constitute a big enough difference for the hard liners to claim "gross mistake" 6.5 would have been the best for sure, but they chose 6, so to me that is them tryingto prove a point. Cutting off their own nose to spite their face so to speak. So instead of eating what they may have on a "bad" line they would rather eat it on a number that is "better" but was created solely to prove a point.

And as for "sharps" hurting them, most "sharps" don't bet futures to begin with, and they certainly aren't going to hurt them with a $500 limit.

People claim it was a "business" move to take the number down and void the bets. But I can assure you it wasn't a "business" move posting Ok St after the fact, and certainly not a business move posting them at 6. It was Pin proving a point plain and simple. Because no one that has futures has Ok St even on the board, and by most accounts 6 is not any more realistic than 8.5.

 

[royalfan]

It sounds as if some of you want them to honor the wagers "because they are a top book". This line of thinking is assanine. The reason they are a top notch book is because the make logical decisions and in this case it is obvious they handled it correctly. Some guys or I guess one guy is really turning into an annoyance in these threads. Says a lot about ones character, if you think pinny should allow you to fire cheap shots at them.

 

[IDENTITY]

HTRC - sure losses at colorado and texas tech? i don't think so, sir.

 

[JimFiestSux]

Royalfan,
Being you are used to picking losers aka "ROYALS" Pinny's lines have been moving up and down more usual in the past month! They must have a new guy or system cause their lines nevered moved so much in so little time! Therefore it was a Fuc- up on their part, if they chose not to honor them so be it! Just goes to show bets can be cancelled there!!

 

[wantitall4moi]

I guess that wouldbe me.

Not sure if the fire cheap shots balst is a double entendre or not. But I have not said one thing about Pin that isn't true. Period.

I nebver claimed the 8.5 was agood line or a bad line, it was al ine they posted. They took action, it moved several times to be sure, and then they took it down. What is there in those statements that are not true?

As for them honoring the original bets...again what kind of money are we talking about? Is it that big a deal to them? It isn't being about a top book, it is about honoring wagers.

That is one of the reasons why I have no qualms whatsoever in scalping them from within. And I do it quite abit. It is also one of the reasons why I was surprised at they way this incident has turned out.

I get them for some decnt amounts onscalps and they have never limited me or even sent an email asking me what I think I am doing. They post lines that are off, I bet them then if they get hammered and over adjust, I bet the other way.

THAT is business. If they offer the best lines then they get the action both ways. that is what they do. Fortunately for them not more people do what I do,(take leads) because if they did then I am sure they would stopp allowing me and those others from scalping them from within.

I like Pin, I make money there. I just had issues with how they have handled all this after the fact. It certainly isn't like them.

EVERY time there is a dispute people go out f their way to defend Pinnacle, and say "they will do the right thing", because they normally do.

That is why I think there might be changes there, most definately in the data entry and proofreading departments, but maybe even higher up.

Ony time will tell, and if more diputes or questionable things happen, then we will have more to go on. Also, if I all of a sudden get an email that says no more scalping then I will know for sure.

One or two incidences might be a mistake. Several mistakes make an argument. And should be monitored. And Like I have said, I have seen a lot of mistakes in the past month. I am sure others have seen them too. But even as mionr as they are, they weren't happening a couple months ago.

 

[JimFiestSux]

You are 110% correct in the last month their line changes have been significant! Also much more movement than before!