Is Canada's socialist system on the brink

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of collapse?

15 hour emergency room waits?

60% + tax rate, are you crazy?

Canadian doctors and nurses leaving for the US to get paid.

$500 to renew vehicle registration.

10,000 soldiers to protect 40 some odd million people.

Islam could take over Canada in 2 weeks if they tried.

Canada has no military to speak of and would cry for the US to save them if the islamic military outpost in Canada boil over.

Socialism is a complete failure in Canada.
 

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This means that we'd have to break Canada up into 6 or seven states before we allowed them to Join the United States - All except the Quebecois - we don't need them.
 

hangin' about
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Didja get your handy list of facts from a new roll of toilet paper, *******?

GAMEFACE said:
15 hour emergency room waits?

I was in emerg about two months ago, waited about, oh, 45 minutes to be seen. And I was non-emergent and it was right after work.

60% + tax rate, are you crazy?

In my tax bracket, I am subject to a 22% rate. There is no 60% tax rate and, even if there was, there would be so many loopholes it would be brought down to 30%.

Canadian doctors and nurses leaving for the US to get paid.

Well, this is true. We have salary restrictions, obviously. Of course, the counter would be simply that were it not for the for-profit model of health care in the US, we would not be losing doctors to you.

$500 to renew vehicle registration.

Idiot. It's $74.00 per year in Ontario.

10,000 soldiers to protect 40 some odd million people.

Umm. It's 52,000 and our population is 31 million.

Islam could take over Canada in 2 weeks if they tried.

Prove it. Without grunting, that is.

Canada has no military to speak of and would cry for the US to save them if the islamic military outpost in Canada boil over.

Though I agree that we are too reliant on your military, I probably have distinctly different reasons for believing so. Further, I don't think it's the military's job to shut down mosques as you are advocating.

Socialism is a complete failure in Canada.

No, it's not. What version of it we practice (and we are a mixed economy, if you'd like to Google that to see what it means) is actually quite successful, considering the challenge we face having the US as a neighbour.
 

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Thank God Canada is solvent!


I was worried that we'd have to put them on welfare and feed them (all except the Quebecois of course!).
 

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Heard a guy on the radio, says he waited 15 hours in the ER. He said he pays 60% in taxes, says it's $500 to register his vehicle. Says the muslims will have free run when they get enough in numbers, not looking good. No way this socialism system can last another 20 years it's on the brink of collapse.
 
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anyone notice a pattern?

If this thread had been negative about Bush, bblight would have been screaming to back the facts ...

bblight ... its ok to come up for air every now and then ... I know you love kissing Bush's ass 24 hrs per day but come on up for air every now and then

Again, if I had posted facts regarding Bushs corrupt life, bblight would have been screaming to prove it ...

bblight ... please book 2 one way tickets to New Zealand for yourself and Cheney
 

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GAMEFACE said:
Heard a guy on the radio, says he waited 15 hours in the ER. He said he pays 60% in taxes, says it's $500 to register his vehicle. Says the muslims will have free run when they get enough in numbers, not looking good. No way this socialism system can last another 20 years it's on the brink of collapse.
Oh, well, if a guy on the radio said it, then it must be true ...

High school must've been a real treat for you, eh?
 

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X,

It may not be to the exact figure, but I do believe some pay 60% in taxes in Canada. Do you disagree? 15 hours in a socialist ER seems about right. I hear it's many months for a major operation if you don't kick over waiting. Is there any truth to that?
 

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Thank you for framing these misleading statements in the form of a question this time.

On taxes -- if you are talking about income tax, your radio guy would have to be making several million a year. He could, instead, be a low-income earner (paying maybe 12% income tax) who happens to shop alot, buying high-tax consumable items like booze, cigarettes and gas. At the end of the day, he could be paying 60%. On strictly income tax, no way.

If he waited 15 hours in the ER, I would be positively blown away if that was 15 hours without a physician attending to him. It's possible it took 15 hours to run whatever tests needed to be run and the like. Further, he would have to be in a busy hospital on a busy day. I took my grandmother to the hospital once with broken ribs and we were there for eight hours total. That included, however, waiting for a social care worker to come from downtown to see her about respite care. Without that, we would have been in and out in four hours, xrays and all. That doesn't strike me as unreasonable.

On wait times for operations, it depends on the problem. Emergent care is absolutely positively prioritised, no exception. You don't wait if you have breast cancer, or need your appendix removed or anything like that. I know of only one person who has had non-emergent surgery (hip replacement) and he waited for 8 weeks. There is much truth to long waits for MRIs, though I only waited 10 days when I needed one for recurrent migraines. Again, it's emergent v. non-emergent care.

As for the comments on Muslims taking over the country, I am afraid your radio guy is likely nothing more than a bigot. Unfortunately, we have those, too.
 

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Doc - why do I want to go to New Zealand? My party is in control and will be for the next 20 to 40 years.

Everything is going my way!

Why would I want to move?

On the other hand, you're obviously unhappy about the way the United States is going. It's time for you to let them know that you don't have to put up with their crap - that you're going to move to a country that's more in line with your thinking.

I hope you like it in Somalia!
 
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bblight:

actually more fun staying here watching the Bushies scramble to see who they can blame problems on ...

this country is headed for a Titantic distaster economically and no Clinton to blame this time
 

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Hey Doc, the Democrats having been warning us about catastrophe and death on the streets since the Republicans took control of both houses.

There's been no catastrophe and no death on the streets - and no further terrorist attacks obn US soil.

So please forgive me if I say that you are full of bile!

What are you going to say when your economic horror show doesn't materialize, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling"?
Doc, give it a break - you're looking like one of those wierd looking guys with the sign "The world will end tomorrow".
 

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X,

I believe you are putting a happy face on a very sad situation up North. The media is too State controlled to ever allow the truth to get out.
 

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We have one station that is owned by the state and it's the CBC. Further, you haven't even brought anything up that I would need the media to explain to me ... I pay taxes and am familiar with our tax codes, myself and everyone I know has used our health care in the past, and I'm aware of how our multiculturalism is different than your melting pot.

You can believe what you like, but you're choosing to take the word of some guy you heard once on the radio over someone you've heard from countless times.
 

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I've heard from many Canadians about the poor healthcare, many that access the States healthcare system.
 

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Canada's addressed a lot of medical issues over the years-- as would be expected anywhere in the world when something just becomes too burdening, obvious, long-lasting...

Canada's moved to ease some of the long waits thru rasing hospital doctor salaries, & private doctor fee for services, fomenting med school admissions, etc.-- because what was happening was that a lot of immigrant doctors were being attracted, some would acclimate, but most would eventually make their way down south towards capitalist earnings.
Acclimating as a doctor in Canada would mean either cutting working hours to the bone, to compensate for the relatively-low earnings-- and in the case of a private doctor: foregoing a day or two at the office, instead hustling some extra woring or on call shift at some hospital, giving one the chance to pinch a patient or two extra for one's private practice, as well as the right to admit for care there one's own patients.
You can imagine then, trying to make an appointment w/ a doctor,"Let's see, three months from now i have an opening at 4:15 on a Wednesday-- please be on time because at a quarter to 5 i'm out of here!"

There've been moves to curb the biggest abuses, but you still see plenty: someone with something non-threatening like a toothache, cold, mosquito bite, headache or indigestion-- & empty medicine chest, just summons an EMS for a trip to the emergency room, which's free, along with the Tylenol, etc. provided(doesn't even bother to make an appointment w/ a regular doctor, which while also still free, transportation to it & OTC medicine is not). It beats having to shell out for a taxi or searching for public transport in the cold, the late night pharmacy's higher prices, etc.

I have acqaintances in over a handful of continents, in countries w/ socialized medicine-- and you get what you pay for-- middle & upper classes very often end up paying extra under the table, or totally out of pocket in order to receive prompt & state of the art treatment-- often traveling out of country for it.

Individually their lower classes brag about who received the most long-lasting & expensive medical treatment & drug-- without paying of course; but collectively all rag on their government for the overall lack of quality. And the higher classes predictably care for their government even less, not only because they rarely end up utilizing the free schooling, health care, etc.--and still get docked those taxes-- but worse, because of the inherent weaknesses of a Socialist system: to wit-- less than half of salary is take-home, & this keenly exacerbated by increased taxing during harsh economic times.

The fundamental strength of a capitalist system, as opposed to Socialist(where everyone brags about 30-hour workweeks, two months paid vacation, their one-month Xmas bonus, etc.), is that most of its denizens get to keep a higher % of their pay & thus prefer to pay ther own way in order to obtain a better product-- meaning they work longer & harder. Personal example: i used to have a salaried union job w/ free dental, among other things. But I chose not to attend the union "slam, bam thank you ma'am" dentist, and instead paid my own way somewhere else.

Peace.
 

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Individually their lower classes brag about who received the most long-lasting & expensive medical treatment & drug-- without paying of course;
puh-lease.
You sound like a British upper class twit.

We've got private healthcare AND Socialist healthcare here.
Churchill lost the 1945 election because the British public had had enough private shyte.
Yes, Winston Churchill got buried in the 1945 election.
The reason? He opposed social reform.
(Do a search on Beveridge Report if you can be bothered.)


For myself, I would avoid a private sector doctor like the plague.
He has too much incentive to do extra un-necessary procedures on you, especially if he's behind on the payments for the BMW or he fancies a wee extra holiday.
And if he takes the long 'established procedures' route to deal with your ailment he can make a pretty nice cashpile before you finally get a solution.
You always get seen quickly, and theres never a queue. Funny that
smile.gif


Private healthcare costs the USA 15% of GDP, the highest cost in the world.
And you don't even cover your entire population :>Grin> !

If anyone over here advocates private healthcare we just point to that huge expensive mess called private healthcare in the US of A.
 

bushman
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oh yeah, while we're on the subject of healthcare a bit more salt...

GDP per person

USA $36,300
UK $22,800

We pay 10% GDP for 100% coverage.
You pay 15% GDP for whatever the fook you get.

So averaged out
each UK person pays $2,280 and gets full cover
each US person pays $5,450 and gets a kick in the áss.

Private healthcare is a very sick joke.
 

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Listen to what you're saying-- you don't go for better care because you're afraid of being overcharged-- so you'd rather opt for inferior / assembly line-type care whose goal is to save money! You're placing yourself at the mercy of someone's character-- someone who will not make any extra money by checking you more thoroughly, someone who may not want to buck bureaucratic regulations that negate a possibly-beneficial procedure... Heck, why worry--we're all gonna die anyway-- what's a little sooner a difference make?

I would only do what you say if i was not able to determine the relative value of things-- but then i will have to be satisfied with the lowest common denominator product / service.

I don't partake of fine dining for the same reason-- so i'll stick to McDonalds-- that make sense?

I will do the same w/ my tailor, my house, car... I will give up any ambitions of excellence and quality... i will wallow in mediocrity... if i have to wait on line 8 months for a needed surgical procedure, i will wait-- i will not spend my own money to get it done right away.

Sure medicine is expensive-- if need be i will work two jobs to pay for what i need-- I will provide for myself and my family--i will not ask that extra taxes be taken out of Rod Stewart's paycheck to pay for my medical needs--
Now, i might be tempted if i could have access to Rod's doctors, but if he's gonna pay my way for only so-so care....
 

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Jesus Christ...have some of you never dealt with socialized health care before?

Think about anything that's 'public'; restrooms, transportation, housing. All filthy things we'd prefer to avoid if possible. We certainly don't want to add hospitals to that list. Take a look around your post office, and imagine your hospitals being run like that: long lines, workers who are too busy running around to help, and in the back you'd find government appointed doctors (who earned their PhD in Bangladesh) practicing medicine for $9/hr.

I used to live in Michigan less than a mile from the Canadian border, and I'd see a steady stream of Canadians coming across for health treatment almost daily. At work now, I'm in contact quite a bit with my company's Toronto office and have a few friends up there. One of the guys told me he blew his knee out playing hoops, and won't be able to see a doc for about six weeks.

In fact, who was that one Canadian comedian who had to come to the USA to get some kind of cancer treatment immediately...or he was going to die waiting because he couldn't see a doctor? It didn't happen that long ago...

Anyways, other than the occasional radical procedure...ask youself this. How many Americans go abroad for their health care, and how many citizens of other countries come here for their's?

I rest my case.
 

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