Important, but not unexpected decision from the D.C. courts...

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There's no such thing as leftover crack
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D.C. court has ruled that White House aides assertions of Executive Privilige is without merit. You can fully expect they'll do whatever they can to avoid getting put under oath and stonewall the process as long as they can.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/07/31/BL2008073101651.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

The White House's Immune Deficiency

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, July 31, 2008; 1:23 PM

A federal judge today flatly rejected one of the White House's most audacious legal claims: that presidential advisers have absolute immunity from congressional oversight.

This Story
The White House's Immune Deficiency
Judge Rules Bush Aides Must Obey Congressional Subpoenas

The House Judiciary Committee had asked the U.S. District Court to enforce its contempt of Congress ruling against Harriet E. Miers, the former White House counsel, and Joshua C. Bolten, the White House chief of staff, over their refusal to cooperate with an investigation into the politicization of the Justice Department, including the mass firings of U.S. attorneys in 2006.

In his opinion this morning, Judge John D. Bates noted that "[t]he heart of the controversy is whether senior presidential aides are absolutely immune from compelled congressional process" -- which was the White House's contention.

Bates called that assertion unprecedented and unsupported: "The Supreme Court has reserved absolute immunity for very narrow circumstances, involving the President's personal exposure to suits for money damages based on his official conduct or concerning matters of national security or foreign affairs. The Executive's current claim of absolute immunity from compelled congressional process for senior presidential aides is without any support in the case law."

But that doesn't mean that Congress now will get all the White House testimony and documents it wants. The White House is sure to appeal the ruling and try to run out the clock. Furthermore, Bates left open the possibility that the aides could assert claims of executive privilege "in response to specific questions as appropriate."

The judge qualified his opinion: "It is important to note that the decision today is very limited. To be sure, most of this lengthy opinion addresses, and ultimately rejects, the Executive's several reasons why the Court should not entertain the Committee's lawsuit, but on the merits of the Committee's present claims the Court only resolves, and again rejects, the claim by the Executive to absolute immunity from compelled congressional process for senior presidential aides. The specific claims of executive privilege that Ms. Miers and Mr. Bolten may assert are not addressed -- and the Court expresses no view on such claims. Nor should this decision discourage the process of negotiation and accommodation that most often leads to resolution of disputes between the political branches."

Nevertheless, on argument after argument, Bates sided with Congress. For instance, he wrote: "[T]his inquiry does not involve the sensitive topics of national security or foreign affairs. Congress, moreover, is acting pursuant to a legitimate use of its investigative authority. Notwithstanding its best efforts, the Committee has been unable to discover the underlying causes of the forced terminations of the U.S. Attorneys. The Committee has legitimate reasons to believe that Ms. Miers's testimony can remedy that deficiency. There is no evidence that the Committee is merely seeking to harass Ms. Miers by calling her to testify. Importantly, moreover, Ms. Miers remains able to assert privilege in response to any specific question or subject matter."

Similarly, Bates roundly rejected the White House's argument that he shouldn't get involved: "The Executive presents a litany of reasons why the Court should decline to decide this case. But the crux of the Executive's position is that the federal judiciary should not enter into this dispute between the political branches. . . .

"There is some force to the Executive's position, but the Court is not persuaded. To begin with, whatever way this Court decides the issues before it may impact the balance between the political branches in this and future settings, as the Court has already noted. ([Quoting himself in oral arguments:] 'This is one of the difficulties I have, because both sides have that same point, whatever I do, whether I rule for the executive branch . . . or rule for the legislative branch, that somehow I am going to disrupt the balance that has existed.'). Hence, a decision to foreclose access to the courts, as the Executive urges, would tilt the balance in favor of the Executive here, the very mischief the Executive purports to fear. Moreover, the Executive is mistaken in the contention that judicial intervention in this arena at the request of Congress would be unprecedented in the nation's history. The 1974 decision by the Supreme Court in United States v. Nixon adjusted this balance by clarifying that the judiciary must be available to resolve executive privilege claims."

House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. responded with a statement: "Today's landmark ruling is a ringing reaffirmation of the fundamental principle of checks and balances and the basic American idea that no person is above the law. . . . We look forward to the White House complying with this ruling and to scheduling future hearings with Ms. Miers and other witnesses who have relied on such claims. We hope that the defendants will accept this decision and expect that we will receive relevant documents and call Ms. Miers to testify in September."

For background, see my June 24 column, Battered Congress Syndrome, about the oral arguments before Judge Bates, my March 11 column, Playing Constitutional Chicken, and my Aug. 2, 2007, column, Karl Rove's Immunity.


Rove Watch

By coincidence, the House Judiciary Committee voted yesterday to cite Karl Rove for contempt of Congress, for his refusal to show up for a separate hearing on Justice Department politicization.

Conyers wrote in a memo: "Despite extensive efforts to secure voluntary cooperation, and despite the issuance of a compulsory subpoena, Mr. Rove has refused to appear before and provide sworn testimony necessary for the Committee's continuing investigation into the apparent politicization of the Department of Justice, including the termination of U.S. Attorneys in 2006, allegations of selective prosecution, and related issues. Mr. Rove has refused even to appear before the Committee and assert whatever privileges that he believes may apply to his testimony, relying on excessively broad and legally insufficient claims of 'absolute immunity' -- never recognized by any court -- in declining to appear. The 'accommodations' or compromises that he has offered are almost entirely illusory, and would substantially compromise the Committee's ability to investigate these matters. Today's vote is thus necessary to preserve the prerogatives of this Committee and the House and to ensure that our process remains a meaningful investigative tool in the future."
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Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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The other side of this coin means that the Justice department et al from the executive branch can now investigate the congress and over ride "congressional" privelege.

Next is investigating the black robes and their foiubles - oh yes, the courts could be opening a Pandoras box that will keep all of us glued to the TV.
 

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A very limited ruling pertaining to "absolute immunity". Doesn't even address whether or not immunity might apply to the specifics within this case.

The Democrats continue to manufacture political hostilities, they need two Americas to survive.

Compare and contrast

2000 to 1960
2004 to any other year

Compare and contrast the always fruitless legal actions and the baseless accusations Democrats make when they lose a close election to how the Republicans responded in 2006.

Compare and contrast the behavior of Democratic Senators when the Republican President nominates a conservative judge to how Republican Senators conducted business when Bubba nominated Ginsberg.

Compare and contrast the behavior of elected officials when Bubba fired US Attorneys to how elected officials acted when Bush did the same.

One party brings partisan politics to unprecedented levels, simply because they have to.
 

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A very limited ruling pertaining to "absolute immunity". Doesn't even address whether or not immunity might apply to the specifics within this case.

The ruling says that the claims of executive privilige in this case are bogus. In reality, historical precedence is that to claim executive privilige, a witness must show up, be sworn in, and then claim executive privilege or make the claim with regards to specific questions during their testimony.

The Democrats continue to manufacture political hostilities, they need two Americas to survive.

This shouldn't be a partisan issue. Congress should be allowed to do oversite of the Executive branch and noone is above the law.

Compare and contrast

2000 to 1960
2004 to any other year

Compare and contrast the always fruitless legal actions and the baseless accusations Democrats make when they lose a close election to how the Republicans responded in 2006.

I think you are full of it and really have a very limited grasp on the facts.

Compare and contrast the behavior of Democratic Senators when the Republican President nominates a conservative judge to how Republican Senators conducted business when Bubba nominated Ginsberg.

I'd rather not see this thread spinoff into issues unrelated to the current situation. However, statements like this shouldn't go unchallenged.

This is a seriously flawed argument (perhaps designed to play others for fools). The reality is that, unlike George Bush, Bill Clinton brought Oren Hatch (ranking Republican on the Senate judiciary committee) into the nomination process. Bill Clinton, in an effort to avoid a fight during the confirmation proceedings, sought to have the blessings of Hatch (and others) before nominating Ginsberg by giving him a list of potential nominees. The nomination of Ginsberg came with the blessing of Republican leaders.

Had George W. Bush done something similar when he had a vacancy to fill, your perception would probably be different and you wouldn't be writing this deceptive talking point.

Compare and contrast the behavior of elected officials when Bubba fired US Attorneys to how elected officials acted when Bush did the same.

Apparently you learned nothing from the exchange I had with JoeC the other day where he completely stepped in it. You are regurgitating the same talking point he did. A talking point designed to play everyone else as a fool, without even considering how invalid it is.

If you need a reminder, go to this thread and view post #'s 51, 54, and 56

http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=600482

One party brings partisan politics to unprecedented levels, simply because they have to.

I agree with most of this statement. However, I'm sure I'm thinking of a different party than you are. I'm also thinking of those on this site that twist and contort the facts in order to defend the actions of this administration.
 

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The ruling does not address "executive privilege in this case", the Judge specifically stated otherwise

In his opinion this morning, Judge John D. Bates noted that "[t]he heart of the controversy is whether senior presidential aides are absolutely immune from compelled congressional process" -- which was the White House's contention.

and

The specific claims of executive privilege that Ms. Miers and Mr. Bolten may assert are not addressed -- and the Court expresses no view on such claims.

The bigger picture here is partisan politics, and you did nothing to disprove anything I said, you only disagreed with me.
 

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Republicans understand the it's the President's right to nominate judges, and that partisan politics shouldn't be part of the nomination process.

So you really don't believe Bubba fired 93 Attorneys for "political purposes"?

PLEASE
 

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http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=600482



I agree with most of this statement. However, I'm sure I'm thinking of a different party than you are. I'm also thinking of those on this site that twist and contort the facts in order to defend the actions of this administration.

"I'm sure I'm thinking of a different party"

Willie cites factual comparisons while cut across cites his thinking.

Typical lockstep thoughtlessness of the left wing moonbats and their stormtroopers - why pay attention to the truth when you KNOW that you are right - reminds me of Dan Rather holding up a forged document about Bush and stating "The document is forged, but I know it's contents to be true" - of course, proving that "truth" never happened.
 

There's no such thing as leftover crack
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Republicans understand the it's the President's right to nominate judges, and that partisan politics shouldn't be part of the nomination process.

So you really don't believe Bubba fired 93 Attorneys for "political purposes"?

PLEASE

I'll ask you the same 2 questions I asked Joe. Giving the responses that he did will reveal you to be a complete idiot.

Question #1:
Are you implying that it's unusual for a new administration to clean house regarding U.S. Attorney's when replacing an administration from the opposite party?

Question #2:
Are you claiming that George W. Bush kept all of Bill Clinton's appointed U.S. Attorney's and fired none of them?


As a hint to the first question: It isn't unusual. In fact, it's the norm.

A hint to the 2nd question: Leading up to the removal of the 8 U.S. Attorney's in 2006, all 93 U.S. Attorney's were appointed by the Bush Administration.


I think even by asking me your question, the real thing people want to know is: "Do you consider yourself intelligent?"
 

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So, why do President's choose to replace U.S. Attorneys to begin with?

You see, I'm just playing on another level. One you seem to grasp, but choose to ignore.
 

There's no such thing as leftover crack
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The ruling does not address "executive privilege in this case", the Judge specifically stated otherwise

In his opinion this morning, Judge John D. Bates noted that "[t]he heart of the controversy is whether senior presidential aides are absolutely immune from compelled congressional process" -- which was the White House's contention.

and

The specific claims of executive privilege that Ms. Miers and Mr. Bolten may assert are not addressed -- and the Court expresses no view on such claims.

The court ruled that there's no legal justification for the claim of executive privilige with regards to the contempt charges. The court also ruled that they cannot use the claim of executive privilige to avoid a congressional subpoena.

The ruling says they must appear when they are subpoenaed. If they wish to assert executive privilige, they can do so for specific questioning after being sworn in under oath.

The bigger picture here is partisan politics, and you did nothing to disprove anything I said, you only disagreed with me.

It looks to me like you are just trying to muddy the waters. This ruling is not a partisan ruling (note that the federal judge was appointed by Bush, not that it should matter). The ruling has to so with allowing a House committee to perform their role of oversight of the Executive branch.
 

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So, why do President's choose to replace U.S. Attorneys to begin with?

I can guess, but you'll have to ask someone more qualified and I'm certain that person is not you.

You see, I'm just playing on another level. One you seem to grasp, but choose to ignore.

If you were playing on another level, as you claim, you would compare Clinton replacing 93 U.S. Attorneys at the start of his term with Bush replacing 93 U.S. Attorney's at the start of his term. In both cases, there was no outcry.

It's not relevant to compare Clinton's removals to the removal of 8 U.S. Attorney's that were appointed by Bush 6 years in and the outcry that ensued.
 

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"I'm sure I'm thinking of a different party"

Willie cites factual comparisons while cut across cites his thinking.

Typical lockstep thoughtlessness of the left wing moonbats and their stormtroopers - why pay attention to the truth when you KNOW that you are right - reminds me of Dan Rather holding up a forged document about Bush and stating "The document is forged, but I know it's contents to be true" - of course, proving that "truth" never happened.

You are embarassing yourself. The sad part is, you don't even know it. If you think Willie99 is presenting facts and I'm presenting opinion, that's just an indictment of yourself.
 

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You are embarassing yourself. The sad part is, you don't even know it. If you think Willie99 is presenting facts and I'm presenting opinion, that's just an indictment of yourself.

Just a reminder shorty...you don't seem to know the difference between accusation and truth...opinion and fact.

It's getting old seeing you do it over and over and over.
 

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Just a reminder shorty...you don't seem to know the difference between accusation and truth...opinion and fact.

It's getting old seeing you do it over and over and over.

Please show exactly where I used my opinion and tried to pass it off as fact. In addition, please show exactly where others inserted unchallengable facts. Otherwise, you are doing what you ACCUSE me of.

Here's an opinion for you (and it's mine). I think it's truly amazing how retarded some others in this thread are. Here's another opinion, I think it would be very difficult for you to be more full of shit.
 

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...reminds me of Dan Rather holding up a forged document about Bush and stating "The document is forged, but I know it's contents to be true" - of course, proving that "truth" never happened.

What's kind of funny about that is that if the ridiculous nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court was never withdrawn (and I hope we can all agree that it was ridiculous), the whole Bush National Guard story probably would have resurfaced. It also could've gotten very ugly for Miers and Bush.

If there were to be Senate confirmation hearings, I expect that Harriet Miers would've been asked about some of the details in this story (not gonna bother posting the text): Here's a link (Note, this article was written just a few days after the nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/bush-miers-the-guard-a_b_8587.html
 

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I think I figured out what some of this confusion is about. If I ever gave the impression that the courts ruled that White House aides can't claim executive privilege, that was never my intention. Nor do I believe that.

It should be obvious from other writings in this thread and writings I've had in the past, when I wrote that the courts ruled that claims of Executive privilege were bogus, I specifically meant that they ruled that you can't ignore a subpoena by claiming Executive privilege.

I've stated all along ( in threads that go back weeks or months) that the precedent for claiming Executive privilege involves being sworn in and then citing Executive privilege for specific questions. This was a case about a contempt of Congress charge. The court ruled that ignoring a subpeona by claiming executive privilege is bogus and that White House aides can't do that.

I thought it went without saying and never intended to imply a secondary meaning.

As for one particualr poster, they are still full of shit and to them I issue no mea culpa.
 

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I can guess, but you'll have to ask someone more qualified and I'm certain that person is not you.



If you were playing on another level, as you claim, you would compare Clinton replacing 93 U.S. Attorneys at the start of his term with Bush replacing 93 U.S. Attorney's at the start of his term. In both cases, there was no outcry.

It's not relevant to compare Clinton's removals to the removal of 8 U.S. Attorney's that were appointed by Bush 6 years in and the outcry that ensued.


So you acknowledge that President's fire US Attorneys at their pleasure, and it's a common practice (at least for the last two Presidents).

So why does Bush firing a US Attorney, even one he may have hired, mean something is wrong? he can't be disappointed and / or concerned with their positions and /or their performance? Even if it's politically motivated? You've already accepted the fact that US Attorneys come and go for political purposes.

Do people never fire somebody they hire in your world?

Do you think Bush's actions are unprecedented? I doubt it.

once again, I simply have higher standards for evidence.
 

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So you acknowledge that President's fire US Attorneys at their pleasure, and it's a common practice (at least for the last two Presidents).

I do not acknowledge your characterization whatsoever. I acknowledge that it's a common practice to replace appointed positions (that require confirmation) with new appointees when a new administration takes office. It's really no different than a cabinet position like Attorney General or Secretary of State, etc. An exception might be when a Vice President becomes President (and keeps much of the team in place). Also, there's more than two President's that have done this with regards to U.S. Attorney's.

So why does Bush firing a US Attorney, even one he may have hired, mean something is wrong? he can't be disappointed and / or concerned with their positions and /or their performance? Even if it's politically motivated?

In this case it wasn't one, it was eight, and it was unprecedented. In addition, the eight were replaced by eight who would not have to go through the confirmation process (clause in the Patriot Act). Furthermore, the eight that were fired spoke out and testified under oath that they believe there was something sinister at play. As a result, there was an investigation initiated by both the Senate and House Judiciary committees.

If the firings were justified, the investigation and hearings would bare that out. Instead, they revealed some significant problems within the Justice Department. It didn't help when millions of subpoenaed email messages were deleted. It didn't help when Alberto Gonzales kept repeating "I don't recall" under simple questioning. ALberto Gonzales decided it was better to avoid purguring himself by repeatedly saying under oath "I don't recall" and then resign than truthfully answering questions by the Senate committee. Any reasonable person would say something is amiss.

One thing that can't be discounted is that at least 2 fired U.S. Attorney's claim a big reason for getting ousted is that they wouldn't file charges of voter fraud where the evidence was lacking. Couple that with the fact that evidence exists that one of the "interim" replacements was heavily involved in an illegal scheme to suppress votes, there are many unanswered questions.

Add to all of this uncooperative witnesses who thumb their noses at subpoenas, how can anyone possibly expect this to just go away and not be investigated to its conclusion.


You've already accepted the fact that US Attorneys come and go for political purposes.

I never accepted that as a fact and I think you know that. It's possible that you think that's how it works. As I've stated, U.S. Attorneys are appointed and must go through confirmation. I think just like a cabinet position, they bring in their own people for these appointments.

Do you think Bush's actions are unprecedented? I doubt it.

In the proper context, absolutely.


once again, I simply have higher standards for evidence.

Then you should have any problem letting the process play out. Additionally, you should be disappointed with the lack of cooperation from witnesses.

What is your opinion of the court decision that it is bogus to assert Executive privilege in order to avoid complying with a congressional subpoena??
 

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I have no problem with the judge's finding, which is not exactly as you describe it. I also have no problem with the executive branch making such an argument.

There is reason to argue that the President's advisers are free to give him advice without being subjected to political witch hunts. Sorry, but even proper and legal advice can be spun in DC by the opposition and by the media.

I don't think the judge could make his position more clear.

In his opinion this morning, Judge John D. Bates noted that "[t]he heart of the controversy is whether senior presidential aides are absolutely immune from compelled congressional process" -- which was the White House's contention.

and

The specific claims of executive privilege that Ms. Miers and Mr. Bolten may assert are not addressed -- and the Court expresses no view on such claims.

 

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Meanwhile, as the political debate over immigration was heating up in 2006, the Bush Administration was trying to show that it was taking enforcement seriously. Yet Lam had been letting the number of immigration convictions in her district decline by more than 25 percent. The decline was precipitous enough that both Rep. Darryl Issa (R.-Calif.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.) complained about Lam to the Justice Department. Feinstein was particularly strident in her condemnation of Lam’s work.
“I’m concerned that lax prosecution can endanger the lives of Border Patrol agents,” Feinstein wrote on June 15, 2006. “ased on numbers provided to my office by the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection and the U.S. Sentencing Commission, in FY05 Border Patrol Agents apprehended 182,908 aliens along the border between U.S. and Mexico. Yet in 2005, the U.S. attorney's office in southern California convicted only 387 aliens for alien smuggling and 262 aliens for illegal reentry after deportation. When looking at the rates of conviction from 2003 to 2005, the numbers of convictions fall by nearly half.”
After complaints from Feinstein and Rep. Darryl Issa (R.-Calif.), Lam’s name later appeared in an e-mail that Sampson sent on September 13, 2006, on a list of U.S. attorneys “We Now Should Consider Pushing Out.”
Despite her own involvement in Lam’s downfall, Feinstein changed her tune entirely in last week’s hearings. She even asserted, with the help of selective statistics, that Lam was an aggressive prosecutor with regard to immigration enforcement. “An accumulation study done by USA Today places Carol Lam as one of the top three attorneys in the United States for the prosecution of these cases,” said Feinstein.
 

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