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Pilgrims Threaten Jihad Against American Forces
By Kim Sengupta
Independent UK

Thursday 24 April 2003

The Shia pilgrimage to Karbala, one of the most potent and symbolic in recent Iraqi history, took on a strident political and martial note yesterday with demands for the establishment of an Islamic state and threats of a jihad against the "American occupiers".

The one million people commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, the grandson of the Prophet Mohamed, were not only determined to take part in the rites banned by Saddam Hussein and his Baathist predecessors, but also to lay their claim for a Shia-led government.

Yesterday, the final prayers of the festival were different from the days that have gone before, with thousands of young men arriving from the cities of a de facto Shia confederacy, which is already taking shape.

The young men left their Kalashnikovs and grenade launchers in their vehicles out of respect, they said, for the holiness of Karbala.

But later, covered in blood from flagellation with chains and knife wounds they had ritually and frenziedly inflicted on themselves they roared their desire to avenge Ayatollah al-Sadr, murdered by the regime in 1999, and fight for a free, Islamic Iraq.

The show of strength was not aimed solely at the Americans or the Sunnis they accuse of oppressing them under the rule of the Baath party. Schisms have also began to appear among the Shias: the followers of the late Ayatollah Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr - who now follow his son Muqtadar - are lining up against Ayatollah al-Hakim, who now runs Karbala, and Ayatollah Ali Hamid al-Sistani, in Najaf.

Two Shia leaders, Abdul Majid al-Khoeli and Haidar al-Khalidar, have already been killed in the internecine strife at Najaf.

Ayatollah Hakim, who was supposed to address the pilgrims, failed to turn up. He was warned, said his followers, that he may be attacked.

The US military said they had foiled a plot by "a gang of five Baathists and a member of al-Qa'ida" to blow up two mosques in Karbala. Captain Jimmie Cummings said the plan was to carry out the attack during the pilgrimage.

The pilgrims included Shias from Iran. Bookstalls carried out a busy trade in tracts from Ayatollah Khomeini and hardline religious leaders in Iran who have called on Iraqis to expel the US military from their country.

In sermons, imam after imam called on Iraqis to take the destiny of the country into their own hands, and the Shia to take their "rightful place" in deciding how the country should be governed Some of the crowd carried banners saying "Bush equals Saddam", "Down USA" and "Yes, Yes, Islam".

Representatives of the Hawza, the Shia religious body based in Najaf, which is said to be co-ordinating the takeover of the administration of towns and cities by clerics, were present among the crowd.

One member, Abbas Nahidi, said: "Our job is to ensure that the people get the message of the Hawza. They should listen and act as our wise leaders advise. We are talking to all our people in our cities to plan the action.

"The Hawza believe there should be elections so people can decide who should govern us. We want an Islamic state. We do not want to be ruled by any foreign powers including the United States."

Abbas Mohammed and Ali Faraya Hamid, two teachers from Kut, said an Islamic administration has already been set up in their city. Mr Hamid said: "The Americans did nothing after the Baath fled, so the religious leaders have started to run things. We are following what the Koran has taught us. We do not need foreigners to tell us what to do."

Rashid Mutanar Rahim, a former soldier, rolled up the sleeve of his left arm to show a long scar. "I got that fighting in the first Bush war. I finished with the army because I hated Saddam. But I am prepared to take part in a jihad now against our American occupiers. I know dozens of people who feel the same way."

Yusef al-Hababi agreed."We are all prepared to take part in the jihad to throw out the Americans. Look at the way they conducted this war."
 

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Didn't somebody say that what these people respect is force? Good thing Bush2 showed them what's what.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know dozens of people who feel the same way."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well thats good to know.
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Is he now representing the Iraq people?
 
I know what you leftist humps would love is for this "uprising" to happen. Nothing like a little American blood to bolster your pansie-ass position. Don't hold your breath Frenchies, these are the same cowards that your boy Saddam made his little bitches for decades. Jihad my ass. ROFLMAO
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Seeing that your post is nothing more than macho chest pounding and braggadocio I doubt that you're in the position to say whether this will happen or not.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radiofreecostarica:
Seeing that your post is nothing more than macho chest pounding and braggadocio<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>radio...considering that 10 days ago, these "religious" humps didn't even have the balls to "chest pound" in public, or slice their heads open for that matter, it's just hillarious that you would consider them a credible threat to anyone other than themselves. I understand that since your, poster-child Saddam has disappeared, you need some new hero's, but let's not embarrass yourself any further. This is not the hope that you've been lookin for. But hey, there is always the North Koreans. Keep the faith.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radiofreecostarica:
dda,

There are more than 800 million Muslems in this world.

No chance for jihad? Think again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wow...what a typecast. I've been hearing since before 9-11 that the muslim faith is a "peaceful" religion. And that most denounce violence of any kind. Good of you to lump all of them in with the extremists. Don't even think Baghdad Bob would have went that far.
 
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Do you ever state a fact in your posts? Or just spin?

There are 800 million Muslems.
What's the problem with that? I never said that they're all preparing for holy war...
 
radio...Dude, chill with the semantics... you responded to Dirk with the "800 million muslims" comment to make your argument for the hope for holy war. Not as a statement of fact. I can't see anywhere in this thread that someone asked the question "how many muslims are there in the world?"
 

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jazz,

Personally, I don't think that disagreeing with other people's opinions means you have to insult them, but you really go too far.

I'm a liberal, however, I'm not a communist nor a socialist, nor French for that phucking matter. Most importantly, I would never wish for American blood, not even your ignorant, offensive, white trash, bitch ass. You imply that anyone that is liberal or disagrees with you or Bush2 would like to see American blood shed. That is ignorant, highly offensive and competely erroneous. Being concerned about the ramifications of this war merely shows the ability to rationalize and reason. You ignorant simpletons on the far right (not those righties like Frank and Jazz that can actually debate)can't see far enough to realize the possible consequences of Bush2's actions because you lack the analytical ability.

All along I've worried about the repercussions of this war. What repercussions?, an even greater hate of America by the Arab community. Why is that worrisome?, because they fight with terrorism. Why do they not give a rat's ass about a strong hand?, their religion tells them dying in a holy war is a free ticket to heaven. What's a holy war to them at this point?, fighting an American.
 
Kaya, can you show me where I called YOU a commie or French or a socialist? Can you deny that there are people who hope that the U.S. doesn't suffer more bloodshed? Didn't fukin think so. I just stated my opinion...something you pussified leftists think you've cornered the market on. I didn't personalize anything concerning your position and yet you've "really gone too far". And just like your goose-stepping partner, radio... I see you love speaking for the Arab community in declaring their "hatred" of America. Who's the white trash, bitch-ass now?
 
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yes razz. there are people who want the US to be proved wrong. That there were never any WMD, that saddam is still alive but dethroned, and that the iraqi people give a big **** you to their liberators....
 
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I see you love speaking for the Arab community in declaring their "hatred" of America. Who's the white trash, bitch-ass now?


Has anyone ever remarked on how mature you are?

Razz: "why do they hate us, why do they hate us...?"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radiofreecostarica:
Has anyone ever remarked on how mature you are?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Coming from the master of civility...I have been duly chastized.
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razz

"Can you deny that there are people who hope that the U.S. doesn't suffer more bloodshed?"

Can you prove that they are all libs or dems as your ignorant generalizations imply? Didn't phucking think so.

I didn't say you directly called me a commie or a socialist, I'm talking about the way you (plural you) on the far right refer to the left constantly. You did say frenchies.
Besides that wasn't the point what was excessively offensive on your part is that you implied that being a liberal means one desires American blood shed.

"something you pussified leftists"
Just for the record, I'm no pussy. Although the way you like to play internet tuff guy I am getting the impression that you are.

"I see you love speaking for the Arab community in declaring their "hatred" of America."

I guess you didn't learn enough reading comprehension in your 2nd grade education. Voicing my concerns about the results of this war is very different from speaking for the Arabs to declare their hate.
 
Kaya...this is just opinion VS. opinion. I support the coalition troups and the American president...you support whatever the phuk you support. I can disagree but respect that. I supported the overthrow of the Iraqi regime...You support the possiblity of Jihad(or not) against America. I can disagree but respect that. The fact remains that...It's been a while since I was a marine on the front line, and I sure as hell don't invision you strapping on a suicide vest, for ANY cause. Let's just leave it at that.
 

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razz,

That's just it, you don't respect you insult, you show no respect whatsoever for other's views.
BTW who cares if you were a marine, I hate when guys throw that out like it's something you're supposed to respect or fear. I was in the army, big deal. You're right, I wouldn't strap on a suicide vest I'm not that dumb, I mean I realize that you were a marine and all, but even still, are you saying you would?
 

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