And you did exactly that. You provided "some" stats. For a leadoff hitter, a walk is very close to being equal in value to a single, yet you completely ignore that stat (obp .385 to .376). Total runs scored in the NL in the 1980s was a lot lower than total runs scored in the AL in the past 10 years, yet you choose to ignore that stat (adjusted ops 123 to 117)
I do agree that Ichiro is a much better singles hitter and played in a much higher scoring environment, but those things should not be the basis of Hall-of-Fame standards
Funny thing is, even if the only number I provided was a combination of walks and singles, I did mention walks, where they aren't very close
Also mentioned league environment, even if the only number I provided was how they did compared to the league environment
So again, you are completely correct. I provided numbers that paint a clearer picture of what the players were doing, not the specific numbers where they were far different
Raines walks per 162 games: 86; Ichiro: 47 -- and again, for a leadoff hitter a walk is extremely close to being equal to a single, so all those 200 hit seasons aren't really far superior to helping the team as 280 hit plus walk seasons
League OPS for the NL in the 1980s: .717; AL the past 10 years: .749 -- which means far less runs scored, which means each run the Expos scored did more to help them win than each run the Mariners scored
They both reached base at very similar rates, slight edge to Raines. Looking at extra base hits and steals, Raines moved around the bases at a slightly better rate. Even from the leadoff spot and despite the lower slugging percentage, perhaps all those singles mean Ichiro is slightly better at helping his teammates move around the bases
If someone wants to say the defensive difference is enough to make Ichiro the better player, that's fine. Either way it's close
Despite how completely stupid the writers have become Ichiro will make the Hall-of-Fame on the first ballot. Despite how much the once great standards have been destroyed in just the past 10 years, Ichiro will absolutely deserve to be in the Hall-of-Fame
Also mentioned league environment, even if the only number I provided was how they did compared to the league environment
So again, you are completely correct. I provided numbers that paint a clearer picture of what the players were doing, not the specific numbers where they were far different
Raines walks per 162 games: 86; Ichiro: 47 -- and again, for a leadoff hitter a walk is extremely close to being equal to a single, so all those 200 hit seasons aren't really far superior to helping the team as 280 hit plus walk seasons
League OPS for the NL in the 1980s: .717; AL the past 10 years: .749 -- which means far less runs scored, which means each run the Expos scored did more to help them win than each run the Mariners scored
They both reached base at very similar rates, slight edge to Raines. Looking at extra base hits and steals, Raines moved around the bases at a slightly better rate. Even from the leadoff spot and despite the lower slugging percentage, perhaps all those singles mean Ichiro is slightly better at helping his teammates move around the bases
If someone wants to say the defensive difference is enough to make Ichiro the better player, that's fine. Either way it's close
Despite how completely stupid the writers have become Ichiro will make the Hall-of-Fame on the first ballot. Despite how much the once great standards have been destroyed in just the past 10 years, Ichiro will absolutely deserve to be in the Hall-of-Fame
Tom, showing that Ichiro has that many less walks than Raines but still maintains a .330+ career batting average is simply amazing. Not to mention, Ichiro faces the contstant change in relief pitchers which isn't the way the league used to be.
All you need to know is this...Ichiro accomplished something this week that has never been done in the history of Major League baseball in the American League. Just think about that for a second.
Hard to say it, but he is better than Dwight Evans, Dave Parker, and Darryl Strawberry. Ichiro's D stands out more today because how fundamentally sound he is compared to his peers.
If we were putting Sabermetric stars in the HOF, Adam Dunn is at the top of the list. Raines will probably get in from the veterans committee. If he has to get in that was, then he probably doesn't deserve it. As great as Raines was in his prime, those seasons pale in comparison to Ichiro.
