I agree but you don't have egos unless you have people stroking those egos.
These players surround themselves with ass-kissers and yes-men ... and I bet a couple of dozen people looking to mooch Roger for a few grand (or a couple of autographs) called him last night to congratulate him on the video.
Agreed 100%. It's not totally his fault, though. Society incentivizes people to behave this way. Those in power do it, and they reward others who do the same while punishing the honest and sincere types.
Humanity has cancer and it's at a pretty advanced stage. This is just one iconic manifestation of it. Rather expected if you think about it, given how it's all organized.
Merry Christmas by the way :toast:
Well Ill defend Clemens a little
He probly did steorids at some point in his career but I doubt he did them since his toronto days all the way until his houston days
That crap destroys your body after a few years so if he did them in 1998 I think its near impossible he was doing them in houston
I also dont belive anything mcnamee says. I tend not to belive rapists facing jail time.
As for everyone in that biased joke of a report admitting it was atleast partially true-less than 10 percent of people in it have admitted its true. 10% is not all.Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the Blacksox scandal and this hole farce is to cover his ass. Hes a much bigger problem than any one player on steroids.
Like i said he probly took that crap at some point in his career.So has half the league and its not just a problem in baseball either.People making him out to be the scum of the earth need do get a life espeicially considering the pure pondscum that play professional sports (wife/child beaters.theives,killers etc.)
He probly did steorids at some point in his career but I doubt he did them since his toronto days all the way until his houston days
That crap destroys your body after a few years so if he did them in 1998 I think its near impossible he was doing them in houston
I also dont belive anything mcnamee says. I tend not to belive rapists facing jail time.
As for everyone in that biased joke of a report admitting it was atleast partially true-less than 10 percent of people in it have admitted its true. 10% is not all.Selig is the worst thing to happen to baseball since the Blacksox scandal and this hole farce is to cover his ass. Hes a much bigger problem than any one player on steroids.
Like i said he probly took that crap at some point in his career.So has half the league and its not just a problem in baseball either.People making him out to be the scum of the earth need do get a life espeicially considering the pure pondscum that play professional sports (wife/child beaters.theives,killers etc.)
Personally, I believe Clemens has been juicing every off season since 1996. This would explain his holding out the past couple of springs (until he was able to pass steroid test) now that baseball has started testing for roids. As someone said above he is a lying sack of shit. Worse than McGwire if you ask me. He shouldn't be a Hall of Famer.
If he wants, he can clear all of this up on the Maury Povich show next month. The same guy who gives the lie detectors to the baby's daddies can give him one too.
If he wants, he can clear all of this up on the Maury Povich show next month. The same guy who gives the lie detectors to the baby's daddies can give him one too.
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Gil is dead on here. He's 'retired' each of the last few seasons so therefore he wasn't tested in the offseason. When he was cleaned up he came back in the middle of the season.
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Gil is dead on here. He's 'retired' each of the last few seasons so therefore he wasn't tested in the offseason. When he was cleaned up he came back in the middle of the season.
"Rapists facing jail time." What the hell are you talking about?
I saw a blog on Yahoo sports written exactly a week ago-before Clemens made himself look even worst with his little "I'll put a video on Youtube and a message on my website so I don't have to face annoying questions" deal, and the following excerpt sums things up pretty well, I think:
"There was no counter to McNamee's charge, to name just one, that he repeatedly injected Clemens with Winstrol that Clemens supplied during the summer of 1998. There was no comment on the fact that before McNamee claims he began the injections, Clemens was 8-6 with a 3.77 ERA. After the injections, Clemens finished the season on a 12-0, 1.77 ERA tear. There was no comment on any of the other charges through the years, either.
Meanwhile, Clemens' training partner and friend Andy Pettitte admitted that what McNamee told investigators about him using HGH was correct. So if Clemens is to be believed, McNamee was lying about him, yet telling the truth about Pettitte...The attack-the-accuser and muddy-the-water bit can be effective, if dishonest. But with Clemens mum, that's all there is – a four-point defense that's as weak as Clemens' reputation at this point.
1. McNamee is a criminal and therefore can't be trusted.
His crime is distributing steroids, which kind of comes with the territory in a steroids investigation. This doesn't hurt his credibility, it increases it.
Would you find this story more believable if it came from, say, a Franciscan nun who claims she happened to be walking down the street en route to Vespers when Clemens suddenly stopped her and asked if she'd inject him in the rear with Deca-Durabolin?
McNamee is perfectly believable, in part because he's a former New York cop who worked for the Blue Jays when he met Clemens. The Rocket liked him so much professionally and personally he brought him to the Yankees. Later, Clemens hired him privately and hailed him as the nation's finest trainer and a friend.
2. Clemens is the victim of "hearsay."
Hearsay is unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge. There is plenty of hearsay in the Mitchell report, but not concerning Clemens.
McNamee's charges are direct, first-person accounts. It's the opposite of hearsay. The allegation of Clemens willingly and knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs is actually more detailed and credible than anything directed at Bonds.
3. When the feds busted McNamee, the only way he could avoid prison was to agree to cooperate with authorities. As a result, he made up stories about Clemens to save himself.
McNamee did agree to cooperate with the U.S. Attorney's Office of Northern California. However, he was warned that if "he should be untruthful in any statements made pursuant to that agreement, he may be charged with criminal violations, including making false statements, which is a felony."
If McNamee is lying about Clemens, he risks going to prison. If anything, lying would have been the dumbest and most unlikely thing he would have done.
Hardin comically pointed out that McNamee once told Sports Illustrated that he and Clemens had nothing to do with performance-enhancing drugs. The lawyer seemed to claim that was the trainer's most truthful statement on the issue.
It isn't a felony to lie to a magazine. It is, in this case, to lie to a federal agent. But in Hardin's world, we are to believe McNamee told the truth to a reporter but lied to the feds, even at the risk of the prison term he was desperate to avoid.
McNamee would have to be a fool to admit to a reporter that he was illegally distributing steroids and an even bigger fool to not admit it to federal agents after he scored a plea deal.
4. Clemens has no way to prove he is innocent. "He has not been charged with anything, he will not be charged with anything and yet he is being tried in the court of public opinion with no recourse," Hardin said.
Clemens is hardly some hapless victim. He's enjoyed decades of victories in this same court of public opinion, and as a result, few Americans could wage a stronger defense against bogus charges.
Clemens' agents, marketers, image consultants, spokespeople and so on have crafted a powerful perception of him. He's been the center of national advertising and marketing campaigns, written the autobiography "Rocket Man" (with Peter Gammons) and done lengthy behind-the-scenes television specials addressing his rigorous training methods. Most media stories about him have been overwhelmingly positive.
The guy has so dominated the court of public opinion that he would enter this fight with a long-standing perception of a good, hard-working athlete. He is an icon to some.
It is that well-cultivated image, perhaps as much as his career numbers, which made the charges against Clemens one of the few parts of the Mitchell Report fans actually cared about.
Wednesday's brief statement from Clemens, through his agent, said in part, "I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."
Clemens and his people are way too savvy to think that is realistic. They've certainly encouraged everyone to rush to a negative judgment of McNamee. By not making a detailed denial now, they are conceding the initial assumptions and almost admitting they have no counterproof at hand. In a crisis like this, if you have a defense, you hit back immediately.
Clemens' plan appears to be to wait until the public forgets the details and he turns to the emotional defense, assisted by top spin masters, in an interview with a sympathetic media outlet. With some media still defending him, he can probably choose the outlet and the conditions.
The court of public opinion might sound ominous and unfair, but it's not a bad place for someone such as Clemens to fight.
Of course, there is only so much that can be done unless he has clear, detailed arguments to counter the clear, detailed testimony of McNamee."
Now Clemens has used his family and the holidays as a shield to defend himself and thinks he's gonna have 88 year old Mike Wallace lob marshmellow questions at him. Mike ain't what he used to be, but he ain't no punk, either. I have a feeling Clemens is in for a rude awakening.
I like him as a pitcher, but he still cheated. There is nothing he can say in my opinion that will change my mind. His reputation and legacy will always be tarnished. That's all he is trying to protect right now believe me. So far, quite a few people named in the Mitchell report have come forward and verified the rat's statement that they used steroids or HGH.
What really makes me believe he used them is that Pettite came forward and admitted HGH use. Those two guys play dick to dick. I believ when pettite came forward Clemens probably crapped on himself.
Bottom line, Clemens is a cheater.
You have to ask yourself what McNamee would have to gain by implicating Clemens. When you see that he'd only have everything to lose, the answer is clear. Clemens is a cheat and no better than Bonds. Also, his body language in his clever little video showed clear signs of guilt. Immediately after he said that he never did steriods or HGH, he nervously looked away from the camera to the side and took a big gulp. It was like a mini panic attack where he needed to catch his breath, knowing he had just crossed the line of no return.
<table class="tborder" id="post4914650" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="thead" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 1px 0px 1px 1px; font-weight: normal;">12-25-2007, 06:07 PM <!-- / status icon and date --></td><td class="thead" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; font-weight: normal;" align="right"> #30 </td></tr><tr valign="top"><td class="alt2" style="border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(253, 222, 130); border-width: 0px 1px;" width="175">Gil Renard<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_4914650", true); </script>
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<hr style="color: rgb(253, 222, 130);" size="1"><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Personally, I believe Clemens has been juicing every off season since 1996. This would explain his holding out the past couple of springs (until he was able to pass steroid test) now that baseball has started testing for roids.
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Gil is dead on here. He's 'retired' each of the last few seasons so therefore he wasn't tested in the offseason. When he was cleaned up he came back in the middle of the season.
Gil is dead wrong.There is no way you can take steroids over a long period of time without destroying your body-it just isnt possible. I agree he probably did them for a few years but people are blowing it way out of proportion.
MCnamee is a rapist and that is a simple fact. Whether he is telling the truth about this or not he will always be a rapist. Him and another guy were found in a hotel room with a semi conscious woman who was found to have the date rape drug in her system.
To the people who say Clemens should just admit it blah blah-the reaction would be ten times worse if he actually admited it. Plus there is a small chance he didnt do anything. There is no reason for him to admit anything.
Most players have come out and denied whats in the Mitchelle report and a few have admited its true. However noone who admited its true has had anything to lose by admitting it. Clemens has everything to lose. Infact the only honest player who admitted on his own so far has been Canseco.
Even if everthing in the mitchelle report about Clemens is true the report itself is a biased sham. Mitchelle supposedly spent tens of millions of dollars doing this report and if youve read it you have to wonder where the money went. Most of the info he got was from witnesses handed to him by the federal governtment. The rest he could have founf in a newspaper. Im sure a Redsox employee would actually be honest if Josh Beckett or David Ortiz was on juice.
Selig couldnt give 2 shits about the integrity of the game.If he did he wouldnt have allowed and encouraged steroid use for this long and he sure as shit would have had someone impartial doing an investigation- and it would be a real investigation not a half assed attempt at trying to make Selig look good. Hell Selig the muppet didnt even read the report.
I would just be like well at least he manned up and admitted what he did Instead of beating around the bush like a little girl and denying it. Clemens is going to just make things worse for himself for lying. You would think after all the scrutiny Bonds went thru that Clemens would have learned to just come out and admit what he did wrong. His trainer isnt just going to make up bullshit about shooting him in the ass with roids I mean come on Roger
LOL@the hatred for Clemens....love how the public gets sanctimonious over this issue....bunch of jerk offs sat by and watch these players grow in size over the years...saw the other sports invovled with doping...saw the numbers grow exponentially vis a vis Sosa and McGwuire...but said nothing about it...enjoyed the hell out of it......
Now you wanna get all salty because your heroes arent perfect and used enhancers...I dont like Clemens as a person...never have...but just as with Bonds..and in particular McGwuire whos rookie card tells the whole story...I was all set to buy his and Bonds rookie card in 92 at a card show and told the guy who was selling it to me to fuck off because there was no way that teenage wimp in the card was one of the bash brothers...I was 13 and knew the deal from jump off...knew Ben Johnson personally cuz I lived behind him...so it aint nothing to me..public had plenty of time to grips with it....dont get mad now...
I knew these guys were jacked up...and I accepted it...and enjoyed the game I love for what it was worth....and would never compare them to Clemente or Musical...cuz I fucking know better.....
I think he did it...I think Bonds did it...all of them did it...but I dont hate them for it...Christ...collected their cards..went to the games...went back after the strike...now folks wanna get mad...lol come on....
Damn league wouldn't allow blacks in it...and the public cosigned on that....so dont act like its the worst thing about Pro Sports...Put a personal asterik on the records so we dont forget the guys who did it clean...and put all of them in the Hall cuz they still deserve it.....and start fresh....
Now you wanna get all salty because your heroes arent perfect and used enhancers...I dont like Clemens as a person...never have...but just as with Bonds..and in particular McGwuire whos rookie card tells the whole story...I was all set to buy his and Bonds rookie card in 92 at a card show and told the guy who was selling it to me to fuck off because there was no way that teenage wimp in the card was one of the bash brothers...I was 13 and knew the deal from jump off...knew Ben Johnson personally cuz I lived behind him...so it aint nothing to me..public had plenty of time to grips with it....dont get mad now...
I knew these guys were jacked up...and I accepted it...and enjoyed the game I love for what it was worth....and would never compare them to Clemente or Musical...cuz I fucking know better.....
I think he did it...I think Bonds did it...all of them did it...but I dont hate them for it...Christ...collected their cards..went to the games...went back after the strike...now folks wanna get mad...lol come on....
Damn league wouldn't allow blacks in it...and the public cosigned on that....so dont act like its the worst thing about Pro Sports...Put a personal asterik on the records so we dont forget the guys who did it clean...and put all of them in the Hall cuz they still deserve it.....and start fresh....
Actually, you're wrong. I don't even hate the guy now. I think he's a lying piece of shit, but I don't wish harm on him, or hate him in any way. If he manned up and admitted it, I'd even let him get away with claiming that he would have never done it, if the other guys in the league weren't doing it first. As long as he admitted what we all know to be true, and confessed that it was still wrong for him to do it. That would leave a much more favorable impression in my mind of him.
Really, though.....I don't care much either way. He may have a hot wife and millions upon millions of dollars in the bank, but he still has to look at himself in the mirror, and know that he is a fraud and a continuing liar. That can't be a good way to go through life.
