I have just disproved reasoning behind why a "God" figure must exist in religion... (GOOD READ)

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First off, I know this is off topic, but then again, so much of the contents of this forum are. I would love some philosophical (or even non-philosophical) debate on this. As far as I can tell, my ramblings have disproved the need if a "God" figure in modern relion. Here are the thoughts of one self-seemingly clear-minded youngster.

By Jake Thompson

The Disproval and Dismissal of God Based Religion

The aim of this paper is not to necessarily disprove religions, but more so to make believers question the necessity of a “God” figure in their religion. The main reasoning behind why there is a “God” revolves around the theory “If we are here on Earth, someone had to put us here.” Beyond that, there is really no reasoning (or thus none according to the author’s associations with disproval of the theory) of why a “God” type persona must exist. If using the same rational perpetuated by the statement previously mentioned, must there be someone who brought the “God” into reality? If we are so convinced that we could only be here be the creation of someone higher, than how did this “God” person just appear here? Using the perception of “something had to put us here”, why do we believe that “God” just appeared out of nowhere? Shouldn’t we philosophize that, like “God” created us, that something therefore had to create “God” for him to exist? Just holding the aforementioned statement of “something had to put us here” true to form, one must also believe that, therefore, “God” must have had someone/something to create him, correct? And therefore, in that tiny bit of philosophical questioning, thus ends this knowingly uneducated writer’s proof of the seemingly inappropriate beliefs of many modern religions.

*This was a first draft. Errors in spelling or repitions of reasoning are to be expected. If you must disagree with the subject matter at hand, do so, but keep grammatical errors out of it.

**Furthermore, I believe modern religion to be a great thing. The morals most contain keep the civilized as just that. However, this glaring error exists. Form your own religions, do what you think is right, and keep the peace. That's my (admittedly disprovable) philosophy.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jake Thompson:
First off, I know this is off topic, but then again, so much of the contents of this forum are. I would love some philosophical (or even non-philosophical) debate on this. As far as I can tell, my ramblings have disproved the need of a "God" figure in modern relion. Here are the thoughts of one self-seemingly clear-minded youngster.

By Jake Thompson

_The Disproval and Dismissal of God Based Religion_

The aim of this paper is not to necessarily disprove religions, but more so to make believers question the necessity of a “God” figure in their religion. The main reasoning behind why there is a “God” revolves around the theory “If we are here on Earth, someone had to put us here.” Beyond that, there is really no reasoning (or thus none according to the author’s associations with disproval of the theory) of why a “God” type persona must exist. If using the same rational perpetuated by the statement previously mentioned, must there be someone who brought the “God” into reality? If we are so convinced that we could only be here be the creation of someone higher, than how did this “God” person just appear here? Using the perception of “something had to put us here”, why do we believe that “God” just appeared out of nowhere? Shouldn’t we philosophize that, like “God” created us, that something therefore had to create “God” for him to exist? Just holding the aforementioned statement of “something had to put us here” true to form, one must also believe that, therefore, “God” must have had someone/something to create him, correct? And therefore, in that tiny bit of philosophical questioning, thus ends this knowingly uneducated writer’s proof of the seemingly inappropriate beliefs of many modern religions.

*This was a first draft. Errors in spelling or repitions of reasoning are to be expected. If you must disagree with the subject matter at hand, do so, but keep grammatical errors out of it.

**Furthermore, I believe modern religion to be a great thing. The morals most contain keep the civilized as just that. However, this glaring error exists. Form your own religions, do what you think is right, and keep the peace. That's my (admittedly disprovable) philosophy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Also, I am always in want of more education. If anyone has any books to reccomend, I'd appreciate it.

Here is one of my favorites:

:The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception
By: Michael Baigent-Richard Leigh

Feel free to add to this list of books on the subject.
 

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Thanks. I'll check it out.

[This message was edited by Jake Thompson on July 04, 2003 at 01:13 PM.]
 

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The theory of "God" or an all mighty Diety is a bit presumptuous. Sorry, I just don't believe in god or a god. I think people are afraid of not believing than actually believing.
 

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Jake,
You're going to hell for writing this. You'd better turn into one of them door-to-door Jahovah witnesses & convert alot of sinners buddy, or it's fire & eternal misery for you buddy.
 

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The BEST thing for anyone to do is to stay completely away from any books or any scientific studies that claim or make any suggestions that GOD doesnt exist or we were created by some lame explosion (which is totally moronic) or we slowy evolved through millions of years , beginning with one small micro~organism.......
icon_rolleyes.gif
They "twist" or "trick" your mind into believing ridiculous things....I mean, just lay in bed one night guys, and think about such claims and try to understand the actual possibilities that their logic is even reasonable, because it is not.
 

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Hache,
Remember, the notion that the world is NOT flat was once considered a "totally moronic" idea.
icon_rolleyes.gif


Faith does NOT equate to proof.
 

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Excellent point lander.....But doesnt it frighten anyone who doesnt believe in GOD, and think of the circumstances they are going to suffer if they are wrong?!
icon_redface.gif
Its not going to be pretty. Heres my point.....If I had, which I do, a choice between believing, and not believing, in GOD, etc., why not try to lead the life of believing, instead of not believing, instead of taking such a chance?! I mean, what would it hurt, and why take the biggest chance you'll ever make in your whole life?! I do admit, that I have read a few "scientific" studies (except the big~bang theory!
icon_rolleyes.gif
), that do make sense, and thats exactly the reason I stay completely away from such, because I dont want it "swaying" my beliefs. Id much rather believe and try to live right just in case.....
 

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Good Point Hache,,,, if there is nothing,,you have nothign to lose,,if there is something,,,, you save your ass,,,

Here are my thoughts,,,, Just think about all of the FANTASTICAL IMAGINATIONS we as Humanity had for the last couple thousand years,,,,

Dragons,,,, Fairies,,,, Gnomes,,, Ghosts,,,, Mermaids,,,

all of these are proven to be Rediculous Farsecal Ramblings of MAN to prove the Unexplainable,,,,, what makes God any different,,,

Reality is perception,,, you take a Picture of a Man,,are you STEALING HIS SOUL?? you are according to some African tribes....

Roman Gods,,,, Greek Gods,,,, they are all the same,,,

The SINGLE god theory just worked a little better for marketing purposes and the Single collection plate,,, $$ BLING BLING $$

Hinduism has Hundreds of gods,, and 10 TIMES more people believe in it than Christianity,,, does that make their GODS any more [powerful than OURS????

haha,,, Nope,,,, cause there are no ghosts,,,
Tater
 

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Hache,
Do you think God would "really" condemn me to hell for not believing & grant you into the gates of heaven because you tried to believe just in case (so if there is a God you're "in")??

I'm not sure God would like that, it sounds like you believe in God for selfish reasons NOT because you have faith & find Him glorious
icon_rolleyes.gif


See you in hell
icon_wink.gif
 

GH

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I don't believe there is a God, but if people want to believe, that's cool.

However, the God of Abraham doesn't sound like the kind of God who would give salvation to "hedge" believers.

Good luck with that, though.
 

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i know you guys will probably think this is not relevant but, a couple of scriptures address this issue:

romans 1:19-22 says "...that which is known about God is evident within the human heart for God made it evident to us. for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been created, so unbelievers are without excuse...professing to be wise, they became fools.

it also says later on in the same book, "because of hardness of heart, they exchanged the truth of God for a lie". i believe that's what people do when they believe in evolution.

also, regarding some of the other comments in this thread, believing in God "just in case" as some kind of fire insurance is not really true faith. in my opinion, there is much evidence to support faith in God. God calls us to faith, not to blind faith.

lastly, "living right" does not save anyone. morality is a by-product of a true faith. the same way that a good body is a result of diet and exercise.

that's all i have to say about that.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lander:
Jake,
You're going to hell for writing this. You'd better turn into one of them door-to-door Jahovah witnesses & convert alot of sinners buddy, or it's fire & eternal misery for you buddy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does being a Latter Day Saint ala-Orgazmo count? Good movie.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hache man:
The _BEST_ thing for anyone to do is to stay completely away from _any books or any scientific studies_ that claim or make any suggestions that GOD doesnt exist or we were created by some lame explosion (which is totally moronic) or we slowy evolved through millions of years , beginning with one small micro~organism.......
icon_rolleyes.gif
They "twist" or "trick" your mind into believing ridiculous things....I mean, just lay in bed one night guys, and think about such claims and try to understand the actual possibilities that their logic is even reasonable, because it is not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't even considered the explosion theory because I'm sure it's equally disprovable, but I don't see how my mind is really tricking me in writing that. Everyone insists there has to be a God, because for us to exist, there had to be some higher power to create us, because we wouldn't just appear out of nowhere. Why not apply the same reasoning that we use to how we got here to how God got here? If we don't believe we just *poof* appeared, why should we believe that he did?
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hache man:
Excellent point lander.....But doesnt it frighten _anyone_ who doesnt believe in GOD, and think of the circumstances they are going to suffer if they are wrong?!
icon_redface.gif
Its not going to be pretty. /quote]

But isn't the above theorom of why God can't be proved all that you need to disprove modern religions. Furthermore, if God does exist, what God is real? What punishment would someone who buys into my little theory get in the afterlife? What makes one God better than the other? As far as we know, believing in religion at all might be the last thing God wants you to do. He hasn't talked to me. If he has the power to tell all these prophets to spread his word (in numerous forms of religion, mind you), as well as the power to create everything in our world, shouldn't he have the power to just tell us exactly what he wants us to believe to our face? Why make us wonder, if he is all-powerful and such? I figure if there is a God figure, he probably wouldn't be pissed off at this self-exploration type thinking, as he would have the power to end any such thinking with a little talk to all of us, correct? Sorry for the babbling.

Heres my point.....If I had, which I do, a choice between believing, and not believing, in GOD, etc., why not _try_ to lead the life of _believing_, instead of _not believing_, instead of taking such a chance?! I mean, what would it hurt, and why take the biggest chance you'll ever make in your whole life?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That just kind of belittles the whole thing of religion to me. You are believing whatever because you are scared of the consequences, not because you are buying into the religion itself. What if you take religion A, and religion B is right? Maybe you are equally screwed in God's view. The fact of the matter is we have no idea at all and I don't see why we should feel the need to believe something (that can be disproven) just to save our asses. I see where you are coming from, but if you can't disprove my reasoning behind why God must exist, then how can you open-mindedly buy into any religions revolving around a God?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do admit, that I have read a few "scientific" studies (except the big~bang theory!
icon_rolleyes.gif
), that do make sense, and thats exactly the reason I stay completely away from such, because I dont want it "swaying" my beliefs. Id much rather believe and try to live right _just in case....._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can prove that religions have these glaring problems in their makeup, how can you believe them? Why should you believe something that can be disproven? I have no problem with trying to live right, but can't you do that without your current religion? Can I ask you a question? What makes your religion more right than any other religion? Where should people go that don't believe your religion but live a good life? If there is a God, and he doesn't want to tell people what to believe (which if he was all-powerful he damn right should be able to do), then why would he make all these religions, most of which are major causes of war, to screw up the world so much? I don't know, I'll quit going on and being repetitive, but I think you get my point. Thanks for the input on the subject, and I hope you add more to the convo.
 

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tate, excellent thoughts in that article. Couldn't agree more.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue edwards:
romans 1:19-22 says "...that which is known about God is evident within the human heart for God made it evident to us. for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been created, so unbelievers are without excuse...professing to be wise, they became fools.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the quote, but that's a lie so far for me. If what "is known about God is evident withing the human heart for God made it evident to us." is true, then shouldn't it be evident to me and a huge amount of others? What makes the Christian God any better or truer than Gods of other religions? I'd like to see a pro-religion pro-God person answer that question.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>lastly, "living right" does not save anyone. morality is a by-product of a true faith. the same way that a good body is a result of diet and exercise.

that's all i have to say about that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. I was kind of thinking the same thing. Wondering what in the heck I would think if religion didn't cloud my mind as a youngster. I'll tackle that one another day perhaps. Too much thinking.
 

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