I am so sick of books and posters bitching about bonus whores and holding our money hostage.

JT_Chicago · Sep 29, 2003

All,
I will try to keep this simple. Offshore books ask us to have faith in them and send OUR money to them, for this they better offfer us something, a bonus is our incentive. A 20% bonus with a 5x or 10x rollover actually is equal to no more than 2 juice Bonus Bets. With the rollover this IS still profitable for a book if they run their business properly. As a matter of fact, even after the rollover requirement is met the book should give us another bonus and rollover requirement. This should never end! try to understand, with the rollover req. a bonus is nothing more than a juice Bonus Bet or 2, a well run book should have no problem with this. Fvck multiple accounts as there will be no need.
When we sign up does a book give us the names of their principle owners and BM...ALONG with their real addresses and phone numbers?? Then y the hell am I expected to? Screw all this ip crap, srew the circumventing limit crap...adjust the lines and make it work to the books advantage.
Bonuses are not a big deal at all, as a matter of fact, they are very minimal in asking for our faith in sending money to you. Money that books can freeze up and steal at any time for damn near any reason! Ewinner claims the same ip was used, so what, show me proof...irrefutable proof beyond any reasonable doubt. Proof attained through a third party, perhaps audited through a third party along with your finances? WTF you want our real names, id's, phone numbers, etc. However, you don't provide us any of the same information. I don't give a damn that you have a 800 number for me to call, give me home addresses, and home phone numbers, you know so I can contact you at home where your wife and children live. Also send me a copy of your passport or Driver's license. Screw all this! Just keep giving a bonus and make sure rollover requirements are met and a decently ran book will make a profit. A bad one will fail and close taking all the post up money anyhow. if I don't care who you are and where you live then you should extend the same courtesy to me. Please lets all sort this out for good here amnd now.
Finally, to the people who are gonna say I am stupid and if all books give bonuses and extra bonuses to encourage me to keep funds with them when a rollover is met, books will go broke from scalpers I ask you the following. How can 2 juice Bonus Bets with a 5x or 10x rollover break a well run book?
Sorry so long,
good luck all

krackman · Sep 29, 2003

Good post JT. I am not for anyone having more then one account at a book because I think it is bad for the players when they get caught and then these places get mad and do away with bonuses. HOWEVER,THEY CANNOT STEAL THE WINNINGS.

Fishhead · Sep 29, 2003

I actually agree with you to a certain extent. A well operated book offering 15% bonuses and a minimum 5x rollover should be able to do porfitable bookmaking as long as they dont give away the house on other things. Which in theory is part of good bookmaking. HOWEVER, this does not mean it is right, ethical, or ok for somebody to open up multiple accounts. Without going into great detail, I hope you can see the light in that.

sickgambler · Sep 29, 2003

JT,

What you are saying is exactly what i've been saying all along.. If I roll over 100k in action, throw in a 1k bonus my way. This way, there will be no more mult acct holders, as it will have no advantage at all. 46 accts is like 1. Players will always play at that book because books will keep giving them bonuses for their loyalty.. NO more complaints here in these forums ever again about same IP and all..

Our problems will all be solved if books do this..

Buzzsaw · Sep 29, 2003

I use to think the same way JT... now I'm not so sure.

What I am sure of, is honest people never even consider using fake names/ mult. accounts. I'm not gonna be wasting my time demanding a book pay or even give the deposit back to these guys who don't have a clue between right and wrong.

The day they ghosted/bearded/fake named into these accounts they knew they were taking a big risk. Now when they get caught they twist like "poor me". Fvck'em, don't do the crime if you can't do the time (or in this case see your money taken from you).

PatrickMcIrish · Sep 29, 2003

Unless they hack your place and/or rob you at gunpoint you pay off on bets that are placed with you. People break a rule you throw them out, it does not give you a license to steal what is not yours. Though obviously very profitable if books can now institute after-the-fact cancellation of winning wagers it's absurd to try and pass this off with a straight face. I don't even know of a reputable book that would try and take money that was posted up, bet by players, and then won!? They know it is not their money and wouldn't even want it. They broke a rule then give them the boot but you can't suddenly go back through graded wagers and decide to keep their money, LOL. What's next, "you misspelled your name so that San Fransisco bet last month won't count."

It's preposterous to take this man's money. Hopefully if all this is over a bankroll concern some cash is on the way. If they have the money and just won't pay then get out of the booking business, it's not for you. I am afraid to say a curse word over the phone, winning bets may be confiscated for that too if I ask for a withdrawal.

drunkguy · Sep 29, 2003

The thing everyone is forgetting is that these people's bets helped move the line. Presumably you booked offsetting wagers from other people on the other side of the game. If you cancel these winnning bets, then cancel the offsetting bets also and refund the losers.

Essentially what has been set up is a giant hedge. If these guys lost and you were still on to them, you could have just kept letting them play until they won big, then refuse to pay them. The whole time you are writing off action on the other side to balance your books, resulting in a no-lose situation.

Hope this makes sense, I'm a little groggy this morning

And, yes, I've said it before and i'll say it again. I hate scammers. You are creating a dangerous situation for the legit players.

bhbookie · Sep 29, 2003

I agree that no book should take the winnings. We never have. We even let them keep the bonus when we kich them out as long as they rolled over their funds as stated in the rules.

We raised our cash incentives to help stop players from opening multiple accounts. We now give all re-ups 15% cash bonuses, which is what most books give as a signup bonus.

To be honest these players who open all these fake named accounts really dont hurt us much, it just makes it harder for me to track our advertising dollars.

If the person gives themselves a referral bonus then they deserve to have that taken away.

-scott

wallstreetcappers · Sep 29, 2003

You are 100% correct sir, and you are NOT the weakest link..

Poor books..poor poor Vegas..

Give it up..

Samurai · Sep 29, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Unless they hack your place and/or rob you at gunpoint you pay off on bets that are placed with you. People break a rule you throw them out, it does not give you a license to steal what is not yours.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Confiscation of funds is an extreme measure that should only be contemplated in the most extreme cases.

If books want to chase away any potential new players, along with quite a few that are already skittish about sending their money off to parts unknown, then just keep stealing players' money and not paying off on bets that have been won. That type of outrageous behavior will put a dagger in this industry quicker than anything the U.S. Congress could ever cook up.

Kiss1 · Sep 29, 2003

Example ...

I own a store.

I want YOUR business.

I offer you a 20% bonus on your first visit to my shop, 3X rollover required.

You deposit 500.00

You now HAVE TO SPEND 1800.00 at my store and you ARE NOT allowed to withdraw for the first 30 days.

Bonus ?

Sign me up for my own franchise ... Who do they think they are kidding ? Do you really think the books are just "being nice?"

Don't kid yourself Mr. Sportsbetter the books are making a ton off the squares who think they are getting something for nothing.

I put over 6G in play at one of "our" books and still have not met the 750.00 X 4 rollover as far as they are concerned.

I am also sick of the books holding our money hostage and these A-Holes crying about "bonus whores."

THEY WILL STEAL YOUR MONEY AND THEN LAUGH IN YOU FACE.

JT_Chicago · Sep 29, 2003

All,
Thanks for the responses. First, I think what Ewinner is doing is unbelievably fvcked up. They are flat out stealing. I believe there are some deeper problems within Ewinner.
Back to what I was trying to convey with this thread. Sick Gambler is right, in my opinion, ON THIS ISSUE. Books should not care what name I or anyone uses. They are not a bank and we all would agree they are not asking for this info to be in compliance with the Patriot act. Therefore, unless you are going to gve me the correct and verifiable personal info of your owners then do not insult me by asking for me to give you mine. Simple as that. We need our own don't ask don't tell policy. When books say they are worried about bonus scammers they are full of crap. if a book can't make a profit giving 15 or 20% bpnus and requiring 5 or 10 x rollover then they have no business in the book biz. Bonuses can not be done away with because there has to be incentive to send money offshore, therefore make them easier. by easier I mean simple x amount of bonus and x amount of rollover, thats all, period. When the rollover is met then another bonus and another rollover, simple. No worries of multiple accounts, adjust your lines and book away.
I appreciate everyones response and I hope we can work together to make both sides of the counter happier and easier.
JT

BornLoser+ · Sep 29, 2003

I am fairly new to the offshore world, But this seems like simple math to me.

1000 dep.
150 bonus
5X rollover
-----
5750 in action

Lay 110 to win 100 and the bonus is gone in the first 2 bets...Right?
I have been "lurking" for some time now, and have noticed this seems to be a very hot subject right now. This seems to be the best plan I have seen so far, could make using multple accts. useless, and promote player loyalty. Seems like a win--win situation.
We need to eliminate all excuses for books to steal our money, it is hard enough to win without getting fvcked for it.

Thanks and good luck

sickgambler · Sep 29, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Born Loser:
I am fairly new to the offshore world, But this seems like simple math to me.

1000 dep.
150 bonus
5X rollover
-----
5750 in action

Lay 110 to win 100 and the bonus is gone in the first 2 bets...Right?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

________

I am not following you here Born Loser. What do you mean the bonus is gone in the first 2 bets? After the first 2 bets of 110, only 10 dollars would be gone of your 150 in bonus..(220 risk x 4.5%= 10$)

You have to give 5750 in action to earn your 150 in bonus.. For that 150 bonus to be gone, at 4.5%, you'd have to risk EXACTLY 3333 dollars.. But the book is asking you to risk 5750. So you'd have to risk another 2417 in bets. So as you see, for the avg bettor, this bonus is not that good a deal for the player, and a better deal for the book.. If a book plays it right, giving a 15% cash bonus can only make them money in the long run, so books are not really giving away anything for free.

BornLoser+ · Sep 29, 2003

My apologies. What I meant was 1100 to win 1000.

TheGeneral+ · Sep 30, 2003

Welcome to The Rx.com Born Loser

PanchoSanza · Sep 30, 2003

Its pretty simple what these bonus whores like sick do, they rollover their money on breakeven or positive scalps mostly in baseball, then its on to the next victim.

Take a look at sicks posts, has he ever mentioned that he is on a certain side or complained of a bad beat? Nope, because its all scalps.

Their only cost of doing business is neteller fees to move their money around.

I keep a record of all the bonus money I have collected UNDER ONE ACCOUNT UNDER MY NAME and its a decent amount. Multiply this by 10 phony accounts and lets just say its more than these unemployable trolls will ever make working.

sickgambler · Sep 30, 2003

If that is true what you are saying, why have I been with Sportsbettingtrivia now for 2 months, given them close to 500k in action, and still with them for? I only had to give them 75k in action to meet my rollover.. Why have I not withdrew all my money from there and moved on. And this is not the only book I do this with. Why did I give RIO 400k in action for? Isn't basically rolling over a bonus many many times considered fair play..

I know of a lot of people who require 40k in action to obtain bonus, and at the 40,001th risk of bet, they are gone and withdraw everything. What do you have to say about guys like this. Now that's bonus raping. I don' do that crap..There are also people setting up 3 accts like here in this case to circumvent limits. Read my lips...I NEVER EVER DID THAT...
never ever played both sides of any game in order to fulfill requirement.. I don't need to do that shit. I play fair. And yes, I do gamble too. I am not a huge gambler, but I do bet.. I will have action on every playoff game this year in bases at the best price

Born Loser,

Yes, it's actualy 3 bets of 1100 to lose bonus.. not 2.. So after 3300 in bets, you'd be out your bonus, and you have to roll over 5750.. So as you see, books are not that dumb. They really aren't giving away the farm if they play their cards properly and not get greedy and too opinionated..

PatrickMcIrish · Sep 30, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Samurai:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Unless they hack your place and/or rob you at gunpoint you pay off on bets that are placed with you. People break a rule you throw them out, it does not give you a license to steal what is not yours.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Confiscation of funds is an _extreme_ measure that should only be contemplated in the most extreme cases.

If books want to chase away any potential new players, along with quite a few that are already skittish about sending their money off to parts unknown, then just keep stealing players' money and not paying off on bets that have been won. That type of outrageous behavior will put a dagger in this industry quicker than anything the U.S. Congress could ever cook up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more Samurai. I've never heard of going back through bets and confiscating winning wagers. "Well uh ...he broke a rule so we now need to keep all those old winning bets. We're only doing it to teach everyone a lesson". Give me a break.

Confiscate any bonuses and make them pay the fees, anything more is theft.

zone136 · Sep 30, 2003

JT Chicago

At the botton there is a quote from your earlier post. If every customer scalped and received a 15% to 20% bonus, sports books would be out of business and it doesn't take a someone good at math to figure it out. Think about it for a while. Hint: send in $1000 receive $200 bonus. Bet it all on one game. Take out the winnings whenever you can and move on to the next book.

The only way this is going to stop is for sportsooks not to give such big bonuses or they conficate the money from these bonus whores.

"When books say they are worried about bonus scammers they are full of crap. if a book can't make a profit giving 15 or 20% bpnus and requiring 5 or 10 x rollover then they have no business in the book biz. Bonuses can not be done away with because there has to be incentive to send money offshore, therefore make them easier. by easier I mean simple x amount of bonus and x amount of rollover, thats all, period. When the rollover is met then another bonus and another rollover, simple. No worries of multiple accounts, adjust your lines and book away."