How should Saddam be tried?

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hangin' about
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Bush promises Saddam fair trial

The US said Saddam Hussein offered no resistance

The United States will work with the people of Iraq to ensure the trial of Saddam Hussein will stand international scrutiny, President George W Bush says.

The deposed Iraqi leader will get the justice he denied to millions, Mr Bush told a news conference in Washington.

Saddam Hussein is being questioned after his capture at the weekend, but interrogation has reportedly so far yielded no direct intelligence.

Two car bombs exploded in the Baghdad area on Monday, killing eight people.

"The Iraqis need to be involved," Mr Bush said when asked what will now happen to Saddam Hussein.

"There needs to be a public trial and I'm confident it will be done in a fair way."

As to whether the former Iraqi leader should face the death penalty, Mr Bush replied he had his "own personal views" on the matter, but was up up to the Iraqis to make those decisions.

He also said the work of US-led forces in Iraq remained difficult and would require further sacrifice, but Iraq was on the path to freedom.

These words echoed those of UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, who warned that what he called "terrorists and Saddam's sympathisers" would continue their operations despite Saddam Hussein's capture.

Hours after the bomb attacks in Baghdad, violence erupted in the flashpoint town of Falluja where pro-Saddam demonstrators stormed the regional government offices.

Journalists at the scene told the French news agency AFP that demonstrators broke into the building, put up portraits of Saddam and set furniture alight.

US officials are continuing to question Saddam Hussein, who is being treated but not defined as a prisoner-of-war under the Geneva Convention.

The US military has said it has identified a militant cell in Baghdad and made a number of arrests of anti-coalition figures in the city on the basis of information "gleaned" from Saddam Hussein's capture.

A couple of key individuals had been seized in Baghdad since Saturday, said spokesman Brigadier General Mark Hertling.

These included a high-ranking former figure from the Saddam government who in turn "gave up a few others," he said.

General Hertling told AP news agency that the arrests had been prompted by the transcript of Saddam Hussein's initial interrogation as well as a briefcase of documents found in his hideout.

The spokesman added that he expected Saddam Hussein to produce "some significant intelligence over the next couple of days".

Time magazine, quoting a US intelligence official, reports that he denied during initial questioning that his country possessed weapons of mass destruction.

"The US dreamed them up itself to have a reason to go to war with us," the magazine quoted the former president as saying.

'I am the president of Iraq'

The whereabouts of the former president is unclear. Reports that he has been moved to a US facility in Qatar have been denied by the Iraqi authorities.

Colonel James Hickey, who led the raid on Saddam Hussein's hideout on Saturday, has revealed that soldiers were seconds away from throwing a hand grenade into the pit where he was hiding before he surrendered.

The operation was launched, Colonel Hickey said, on the basis of information from an individual arrested in Baghdad on Friday who was brought to Tikrit for interrogation on Saturday morning.

It is not known if the Americans intend to pay a $25m reward offered for information about him.

The troops who came across Saddam Hussein on Saturday were offered "negotiations", spokesman Major Brian Reed said on Monday.

"I am Saddam Hussein, I am the president of Iraq and I want to negotiate," the former leader was quoted as saying in English from his pit.

The soldiers, according to Major Reed, replied with the words "President Bush sends his regards".

Calls for trial

Iran has added its voice to calls for Saddam Hussein to be tried for crimes, saying he should be tried in an international court over the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war.

SADDAM: POSSIBLE CHARGES


Campaign against the Kurds in the 1980s, including the use of poison gas at Halabja
Suppression of Kurdish and Shia revolts after the first Gulf War
Brutality against the Marsh Arabs
Crimes committed during the wars against Iran and Kuwait
Possible involvement in recent attacks on coalition forces and other targets in Iraq


The US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council (IGC) has called for him to be tried inside Iraq by Iraqi judges "under the supervision of international experts".

The current president of the IGC, Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, said Monday that Saddam Hussein could face the death penalty if convicted in an Iraqi court.

A special tribunal was set up in Iraq last week to try leading members of the former government.

Charles Heathley, spokesman for the US-led administration in Iraq, said on Monday he expected the new tribunal would charge Saddam Hussein "in due course" and ask the coalition to hand him over.

However, some human rights groups say an international tribunal - without the power to award the death penalty - would be preferable to a trial in Iraq.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has said it expects to have access to the captured former president .

There was no fixed time frame for the visit, a spokesman told AP.

"But we expect Saddam Hussein - as any other presumed, real or accepted PoW - will at some stage be visited by the ICRC."

World leaders have welcomed the capture, including some who opposed the war to oust Saddam Hussein such as President Jacques Chirac of France who said it would strongly contribute to democracy and stability in Iraq.

There was also condemnation of his treatment in some parts of the Arab world.

Abdel Azziz Rantissi, a leader of the Palestinian militant organisation Hamas, accused the US of an "ugly and despicable... insult to all Arabs and an insult to Muslims".

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3321983.stm

Thoughts?
 

hangin' about
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An interesting quote from CNN:

An Iranian government spokesman added that countries that sold Saddam weapons must also face justice -- a reference to alleged U.S. military supplies during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

"We want a competent international court to investigate the crimes committed by the former Iraqi dictator," The Associated Press quoted Abdollah Ramezanzadeh as saying.

Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/15/sprj.nirq.saddam.future/index.html
 

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Tough call.
Theres a lot of people that want a piece of that dude.

A Spandau type place might work as a compromise, and when he dies, cremation with his ashes scattered over the Indian ocean.


Don't let the Brits try him tho, the way things are going here he'd probaly get 240 hours community service.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...240 hours of community service. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

applaudit.gif
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xpanda:
An interesting quote from CNN:

An Iranian government spokesman added that countries that sold Saddam weapons must also face justice -- a reference to alleged U.S. military supplies during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good luck getting that to happen. Having the strongest military in the world means you can commit the same crimes and get away scot free.


You have to love Bush crying about our POW's being on Iraqi Television, but he has no problem showing the dead bodies of the sons.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
He should be tried any way possible except for the International Court.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? The International Court is in place for this type of thing and is currently bringing justice to another brutal dictator, Milosevic. If that goes well, then I don't see why that can't be a model for trying Saddam. While much of Saddam's crimes were against his own people, Iran clearly also should have the right to be part of bringing him to justice. Kuwait too. Probably others as well.

I'm not necessarily against Iraq trying him themselves if they can pull it off. But I certainly wouldn't eliminate the possibility of the Internation Court -- that's what it's there for!!!

At this point we should just keep all options open and discuss the issue with Iraq and our allies (if we have any left besides UK).
 

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D2bets,

I bet you don't even realize that the ICC does not even have jurisdiction over Saddam's worst offenses.

The ICC only has jurisdiction over offenses committed after July 1, 2002.

In case you were wondering the Hague court trying Milosevic is only a temporary court set up to deal with him (and others) for offenses committed in the former Yugoslavia and would have no jurisdiction over Saddam given the timing of Saddam's worst offenses.

Do some research before commenting, you might learn something.

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude, 1998
 

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Also, there is no death penalty...and the pygmies on that court are pissed off because the US does not want any part of it and would love to stick it up the US's ass.
 

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Floyd,

You should know by now that to guys like D2bets, and others like him on the left, FACTS MEAN NOTHING. It's only ideology that counts to them.

To answer the original question posed in this thread. The decision of what to do with Saddam does NOT rest with the United States, and certainly does not rest with the laughable Euros who run the show at the Hague. This is a decision for the Iraqis, and that means of the Iraqi Governing Council holds a 24 hour kangaroo court and has him shot in a public square, neither the US nor the UN should have anything to say about it. What I'd like to see happen is a FULL trial of Saddam's entire career. We should lance all of the boils, even the ones with US writing on them. Let's have a public trial where it all comes out how the US and England helped Saddam in the 1970's and first half of the 1980's. And let's talk about how France, Russia and Germany helped Saddam from the 1970's right up into the 21st Century, even selling him weapons and oil in violation of UN sanctioned boycotts. And let's talk about how Jordan and Syria were selling weapons to Iraq right up until the Spring of 2003. Let's get it ALLLLLLL out in the open so civilized nations like the US and England, and potentially civilized nations like France, Germany and Russia, don't make these hideous mistakes in the future.
 

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I agree. I think there is no question that Saddam should be tried in Iraq, under Iraqi law, after all, the bulk of his crimes were committed in Iraq. In addition, a trial in Iraq would mean that the death penalty could remain an option. I'm normally not a proponent of it, but I certainly think that if you're going to enforce it yourself, especially at those kinds of levels, you should also be subjected to it.

However, if the US is going to use these charges to demonstrate their moral indignance at Saddam's crimes and as a means to justify this war, then they must acknowledge their role in all of, too. After all, aiding and abetting is a criminal offense in the US.

Unfortunately, because the tribunal of judges in Saddam's trial will be appointed by the Iraqi Governing Council, comprised entirely of members hand-picked by the US, I highly doubt much of that will get discussed.
 

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