a good read, not overly on the op topic though
Ive always had a problem with the topic of "Leviticus Law" to be honest.
I understand that Jesus was sent with a new message. To replace the old law, yada yada yada. And thats fine. I get that. But one of the things I struggle with, is the conflicting message of Christ in the new testament vs. the law of the old testament.
My problem is, what is the use in putting this old law in the Bible (Gods Word) when it is contrary to the new message? And if the old law isnt necessary anymore, then what part of the old law is necessary? What about the ten commandments? Are they even necessary with God's "new message"? I know that extreme, but I think its a fair question.
Then you get on a very slippery slope when one starts to go thru scripture and pick and chose what they want to follow.
Off topic, but just responding to the post. And I agree with Zit regarding the fact that homosexuality is addressed many times in the Bible. Not just the old testament.
ive never been much into religion personally, although i was raised in a catholic house. I have always just had problems with how set in their old ways most religions are and their interpetation of the bible. Lots of stuff that appears numerous times in the bible does not fly in this day, yet they try so hard to hang onto somethings and say but the bible says yada yada. i believe in a higher power or atleast I hope there is one, but I dont think any religion hits it on the head or is right.
as corny as it may sound, i love a line from the movie The Mist:
Hey, crazy lady, I believe in God, too. I just don't think he's the bloodthirsty asshole you make him out to be.
i think/hope god basically wants everyone to be happy and treat others as they would like to be treated
as corny as it may sound, i love a line from the movie The Mist:
Hey, crazy lady, I believe in God, too. I just don't think he's the bloodthirsty asshole you make him out to be.
i think/hope god basically wants everyone to be happy and treat others as they would like to be treated
Forget God. I never believed in the God of the bible but I definitely believed there was something beyond this world. I tried dmt last year and all that changed. I realized whatever we think about God and the universe doesn't compare to the reality. It's just too complicated and beyond anything we can imagine as human beings. It's more complicated than God and Satan and good and evil. All of these are human concepts. You guys can waste all the time you want arguing about this but all it takes is a little dmt to have direct knowledge.
How can you have direct knowledge of something if it might not be real sir? The definition of knowledge is justified true belief. If the spiritual doesn't exist then you can't have knowledge of it.
Have you investigated whether there is evidence to suggest that some of the people who wrote "religious books" were just ordinary people reporting what happened?
I dont take offense, these conversations always follow the same path. Been there done that.
You are now doing what always happens, "theories are nothing but theories" , "show me" , "you have showed me nothing"
I dont get paid to be your science tutor, you started with "matter cant be created or destroyed" I just went on to point your mistake, thats it
. You can go and find the answers yourself , go read the book I showed you , read a book from someone that totally rejects what the other book says , then let me know, but people are lazy and expect answers in an internet forum. The US has (used to have?) the best universities and specifically science departments. I am 1000% sure that if you show up and ask, they will talk to you about your concerns. We are going to get nothing accomplished here.You start with "everything needs a creator" but then you fail to apply this to the very creator, if everything needs a creator well then God is not God but god because someone else created him/her . Perfectly valid answer that you don't even consider is , there is no beginning or end.
You are AGAIN TOTALLY ABSOLUTELY WRONG (But its impossible for you to see this) when you state this
"
And my overall point here is that science will NEVER answer every question in this universe. "
See, people obsessed with the meaning of their life, demand answers. Not offering them is 'unsettling' and brings fear to the masses.
The competitors across the street (science) dont claim to have the answer to everything (perfectly possible there is a god coordinating all this, unnecessary hypothesis to me but OK as long as this is not used later on dictate politics that affect us all in a very real way ).
so it goes like this
"science ,is there an afterlife"
answer "there is no reason to believe that, so we say no"
"science,is there some sort of justice where the bad guys of today get punished later on" answer....
"eh no"
"science,so are you saying that my mom and my dad are gone, as if they never existed" ....
"well yes....we dont have reason to believe otherwise,if we find evidence we will reexamine this and the other topics"
"well science you are REALLY a party pooper you are no fun! you really dont know anything about anything....do YOU? how did all this came into existence! give me an easy explanation to the biggest mistery in the universe...and I want no gibberish involved! SHOW ME AND SHOW ME NOW and last time I touched any type of science book was when I was 7........but regardless SHOW ME and after you show me I also want a demo, create a universe if you think you know how its done!"
answer"well so far we believe its this (shows a bunch of drawaings and equations) ,we could be wrong but for now evidence says this and this and this support it, we could test this other hypothesis but we need a particle accelerator it costs .....500 million dollars ......the US refuses to build it because they rather spend billions in war or bonuses or buying ipods ....so we have to wait till the one in Switzerland is completed....till then this is where we stand with this, check back later for more updates, besides even if we have a working theory dont expect a demonstration anytime soon, we were just in the dark ages 500 years ago....we are very far from having even a primitive understanding of this ".
"science, you are showing/proving nothing its all theories, someone like me without a fancy PhD shows up and you cant convince me ! also I like to know that there is justice, a creator who cares for me and an afterlife because it CAN NOT BE just this ....it just CANT ....and if you are going to tell me that there is no meaning to my existence...well YOU ARE FIRED , GOOD BYE! and I am going to write to my senator about all this wasted money in this theories of yours!"
(these conversations always end up like this)
fact is, "so many" who are in "full jails" are mostly there due to this mess with drugs. Most people are social individuals that work well in a society, then you have the wars about religion (ha!) which are normally fueled about power/access to resources and religion plays a "its us versus them" thing. I dont see anything abnormal with this. Its a group fighting another group for access to 'x' which is needed.
So I dont know what we are arguing about. If you are in my group , it helps me not to kill you. brb I gotta kill a neighbor for no reason....that has a lot of logic and somehow is going to benefit my survival....(ha!)
that vilenkin troublemaker with his speculative theories and models
Face it, due to the way we were raised....or may be the way our brains are constructed....we need begin and end. saying "its been always there" doesnt compute. Anyone that has had a kid has had those conversations. Now you could say "our creator made us to think that way" ....now THAT sounds metaphysical
Personally I am trying to avoid being killed by these guys that hear voices from the sky and in the process crash planes....burn books, tell girls not to go to school....etc etc. If science discovers there is a creator now THAT would be interesting, I don't see why it would be hard to find....you would think he/she would make it pretty darn obvious so that we dont have to read through lines or kill ourselves due to different interpretations of what we are supposed to do
I am due for a trip through the 'see you naked' machine followed by someone 'feeling my junk' in an airport next week, rest assured I will remember this thread when I am going through all that thanks to one of those many manics who insist have the ultimate answer to everything and then decided to kill 3k people.
I dont take offense, these conversations always follow the same path. Been there done that.
You are now doing what always happens, "theories are nothing but theories" , "show me" , "you have showed me nothing"
I dont get paid to be your science tutor, you started with "matter cant be created or destroyed" I just went on to point your mistake, thats it
You start with "everything needs a creator" but then you fail to apply this to the very creator, if everything needs a creator well then God is not God but god because someone else created him/her . Perfectly valid answer that you don't even consider is , there is no beginning or end.
You are AGAIN TOTALLY ABSOLUTELY WRONG (But its impossible for you to see this) when you state this
"
Originally Posted by Wildcat Coach
And my overall point here is that science will NEVER answer every question in this universe. "
See, people obsessed with the meaning of their life, demand answers. Not offering them is 'unsettling' and brings fear to the masses.
The competitors across the street (science) dont claim to have the answer to everything (perfectly possible there is a god coordinating all this, unnecessary hypothesis to me but OK as long as this is not used later on dictate politics that affect us all in a very real way ).
so it goes like this
"science ,is there an afterlife"
answer "there is no reason to believe that, so we say no"
"science,is there some sort of justice where the bad guys of today get punished later on" answer....
"eh no"
"science,so are you saying that my mom and my dad are gone, as if they never existed" ....
"well yes....we dont have reason to believe otherwise,if we find evidence we will reexamine this and the other topics"
"well science you are REALLY a party pooper you are no fun! you really dont know anything about anything....do YOU? how did all this came into existence! give me an easy explanation to the biggest mistery in the universe...and I want no gibberish involved! SHOW ME AND SHOW ME NOW and last time I touched any type of science book was when I was 7........but regardless SHOW ME and after you show me I also want a demo, create a universe if you think you know how its done!"
answer"well so far we believe its this (shows a bunch of drawaings and equations) ,we could be wrong but for now evidence says this and this and this support it, we could test this other hypothesis but we need a particle accelerator it costs .....500 million dollars ......the US refuses to build it because they rather spend billions in war or bonuses or buying ipods ....so we have to wait till the one in Switzerland is completed....till then this is where we stand with this, check back later for more updates, besides even if we have a working theory dont expect a demonstration anytime soon, we were just in the dark ages 500 years ago....we are very far from having even a primitive understanding of this ".
"science, you are showing/proving nothing its all theories, someone like me without a fancy PhD shows up and you cant convince me ! also I like to know that there is justice, a creator who cares for me and an afterlife because it CAN NOT BE just this ....it just CANT ....and if you are going to tell me that there is no meaning to my existence...well YOU ARE FIRED , GOOD BYE! and I am going to write to my senator about all this wasted money in this theories of yours!"
(these conversations always end up like this)
Well I guess we are going to agree to disagree. And when I say that, I dont mean what you probably think I mean.
Whether or not I believe in the existence of God, how the world was made (if it was), I wasnt trying to have an argument with you. I believe you stated some things that you believe are fact, and quite frankly I didnt understand where you were coming from. And I still dont.
Has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. I was trying to have a debate (if you want to call it that) with you concerning SCIENCE. And you proved nothing to me except go tell me to read some books. Ive read plenty on books Sir. I may not be the sharpest tool in the the shed, but I do hold a bachelor's degree from a major state university (not that that means much) and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
Huh?? :think2:
Where did I day "everything needs a creator"??? Are you just making stuff up now to try to argue your side? Or are you just assuming I believe this?
Again, please take no offense, but you do a great job of arguing a position without providing any facts and by doing a great job of sidestepping questions when you dont want to answer them.
You dont happen to be a liberal democrat do you? :toast: J/K
