How can Bush really be that emptyheaded?

D2bets · Dec 11, 2003

Same day, Bush: 1. Asks European countries to forgive Iraqi debt. 2. Tells same countries that they can't have or bid on any Iraqi reconstruction contracts because they didn't support the Iraq war.

Someone needs to slap Bush in the face and say ARE YOU FU****G KIDDING ME? You can't be serious. Why don't you just also let Halliburton overcharge by $61 mil for the helluva it? Oh wait, they did.

SENDITIN · Dec 12, 2003

Maybe you are the one that is emptyheaded. Ever think that there is more than meets the eye to this? Like maybe the hidden message is you forgive/reschedule the debt or else you get zip? And what have you got against Haliburton making a profit? There are few companies qualified to do the MAJOR work needed in Iraq and Haliburton is one of them. And remember they've done work for the past several administrations including your buddy Bill Clinton.

PatPatriot · Dec 12, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Asks European countries to forgive Iraqi debt. 2. Tells same countries that they can't have or bid on any Iraqi reconstruction contracts because they didn't support the Iraq war.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
D2...I believe countries that forgave Iraqy debt. would then be considerd for contracts.
Don't you think its fair that the countries that did lose people in Iraq like Italy,Poland,Spain and Great Britan have first chance at contracts??
Also, this is for the major contracts.Countries shut out of major contracts would be included for secondary contracts,like cleaning up old ammunition would be awarded to France because it is mostly theirs....French doctors would get the contract of pulling bullets out of American soldiers chest.

D2bets · Dec 12, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SENDITIN:
Maybe you are the one that is emptyheaded. Ever think that there is more than meets the eye to this? Like maybe the hidden message is you forgive/reschedule the debt or else you get zip? And what have you got against Haliburton making a profit? There are few companies qualified to do the MAJOR work needed in Iraq and Haliburton is one of them. And remember they've done work for the past several administrations including your buddy Bill Clinton.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that is the deal then that's fine. MY understanding is that countries like France, Russia, etc have been told that they are being shut out of contracts regardless of debt foregiveness. If that's not the case then fine. If Halliburton is the only company qualifed, then fine, they get it, but I believe there should be an opene bidding process -- remember something called the free market? Republicans used to believe in it before they were bought out by their corporate friends (i.e. sponsors).

PatPatriot · Dec 12, 2003

D2... from what I understand there are only like 4 companies in the world that can do what Hallib. does.

PatPatriot · Dec 12, 2003

Iraq Minister Backs U.S. Move on Contracts
Fri Dec 12, 6:14 AM

DUBAI (Reuters) - Iraq's interim foreign minister backed a U.S. move to bar war opponents from reconstruction contracts, saying some of them had supported Saddam Hussein's "bloody regime."

"Not only did these countries not help the Iraqi people, some of them opposed the war and others supported the dictatorship of this bloody regime in oppressing the Iraqi people through the years," said Hoshiyar Zebari during a visit to Qatar Thursday.

"We Iraqis remember these things, and remember those who stood by us and those who stood against us," he said in remarks aired Friday by Arabic-language television network Al Jazeera.

The United States unveiled plans Tuesday to limit competition for reconstruction contracts in Iraq worth up to $18.6 billion, shutting out countries such as Germany, France and Russia which opposed the war.

The decision has prompted a storm of protest from the excluded countries and shaken efforts to rebuild ties damaged by the war.

Zebari said the decision could still be revised.

"There is room regarding these countries and this issue could be revised if these countries changed their negative attitude and their disregard of the Iraqi cause," Zebari said.

D2bets · Dec 12, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
The United States unveiled plans Tuesday to limit competition for reconstruction contracts in Iraq worth up to $18.6 billion, shutting out countries such as Germany, France and Russia which opposed the war.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Notice the phrase "limit competition". How can a free-market conservative type be in favor of such a thing? I though more competition was a good thing.

xpanda · Dec 12, 2003

Excluding said countries from reconstruction contracts and asking those same countries for debt relief are two totally independent events. The White House was pissed at the Pentagon's timing to announce that those countries will be forbidden from bidding, as Bush had already scheduled his phone calls to ask for assistance. The awarding of contracts is not dependent on these same countries' decision to forgive the Iraq debt.

BTW, Canada has been excluded as well, after already donating over $200 million plus committing to another $100 million in reconstruction aid. The end result? Canada is no longer going to contribute funds to the Iraqi's cause ... FU George Bush, you arrogant SOB. I thought this was supposed to a humanitarian war??

All the Pentagon had to do what to shut their freaking mouths ... there are only 26 contracts to go around, so who would argue when Russia, France, Canada, China, and Germany happened to not 'win' any of them??? Instead, they had a point to make, and make it they did.

We swore in a new PM this morning, and I'm dying to know how he's going to handle this situation ... it is my sincere hope that the remaining $100 million will still find its way to the Iraqi people ... just because we didn't think the war was necessary, doesn't mean that we shouldn't admit that rebuilding is necessary.

I'm not a big proponent of hoofing men in the nuts, but I'd love to have ten minutes alone with Mr. Bush.

[This message was edited by xpanda on December 12, 2003 at 03:05 PM.]

angusr · Dec 12, 2003

No way should Canada come through with the money. Are we a nation of suckers? Canadian taxpayers should forgive Iraqi debt, fork over more than a quarter billion dollars to the US and not even have a chance to bid on contracts? If the U.S. wants to exclude us from the bidding process that's fine; they run the show in Iraq for the foreseeable future. But to slap us in the face with one hand and then hold out the other for a handout? Please God let Paul Martin have the balls to tell them to take a hike.

xpanda · Dec 12, 2003

I don't think we should forgive the debt, seeing as how it's technically George's now ... but if immediate relief is needed, it would be morally remiss, not to mention hypocritical of us not to provide it. Perhaps there is a way to circumvent the US and make sure it finds its way there through another channel?

It bothers me to know end that this war has turned into a shameless profit-and-loss statement.

angusr · Dec 12, 2003

Xpanda......

Why not look at it this way: we have 100M dollars that we can use to relieve suffering in 3rd-world/needy countries. The U.S., being at least partly responsible for the suffering in Iraq, has an obligation to take care of Iraqis and make sure they don't starve or die of preventable disease. Every dollar we spend in Iraq is one fewer dollar that the U.S. has to spend cleaning up its mess. Why not take that 100 million and spend it somewhere else where it will do more good? Iraq is high profile and the relief dollars will inevitably pour in - there are other lesser known places where relief is needed just as badly. The current US administration needs to learn that international diplomacy is about give and take - not take and take.

xpanda · Dec 12, 2003

I hear you ... my politics tend to be a little altruistic at times. I have a very close friend who is from Baghdad, with his entire family still there, so this issue is very close to home. Regardless of how this plays out, I hope Martin lets Bush know that Canadians are appalled by his tactics. God, do I hope the Democrats win the next election.

Oceans11 · Dec 12, 2003

...Ever think that there is more than meets the eye to this? Like maybe the hidden message is you forgive/reschedule the debt or else you get zip?...

Bait and switch!
Carrot and stick!
or:
lets see if the dim european fux go for it.

A good way to build a brave new world.
Its nice to work together as a team.
Forwards, into the future!
WE'RE WORKING FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY!!

footnote:
Does everyone this US administration deals with need an IQ lower than your average tyre pressure?

Actually, its standard US corporate procedure.
-Take the piss out of everyone, even those that are committed to you.
(The sicken your workforce system)
Those that are left after the smart ones are gone, will put up with huge amounts of patronising bullshit without a whimper.

[This message was edited by eek on December 12, 2003 at 07:31 PM.]

GrandSlam+ · Dec 12, 2003

A great quote by Andrew Sullivan:

" What a relief to hear the president forthrightly defend his decision to bar Germany, France and Russia from competing on Iraq reconstruction contracts. There is a difference between being magnanimous and being a patsy. Germany, France and Russia are completely free to donate money and troops to help Iraq's transition away from a dictatorship they defended and bankrolled. (They have, of course, delivered nothing.) But, after doing everything they could to undermine the U.S. at the U.N. and elsewhere in order to protect their own favored dictator, they have absolutely no claim on the tax-payers of the United States. The idea that we should reward them for their obstructionism out of our own coffers on the same terms that we are rewarding countries that gave money and lives to help the liberation is a preposterous one. It's tantamount to inviting exactly the same kind of intransigence and betrayal in the future. France in particular went much further earlier this year and last than simply opposing the U.S. on Iraq. The French government did all it could to rally world opinion, lobby foreign governments, and delay the war to Saddam's benefit in order to isolate and humiliate the U.S. They didn't just object; they opposed, plotted and lied to our faces. Forgetting this is absurd. Rewarding it is obscene. The president is right. Let the real allies of the U.S. benefit from the alliance. Let France, Germany and Russia live with the consequences of their own moral bankruptcy and strategic error. The alliance is indeed not what it was. Nor can it be. And the responsibility lies squarely in Paris, Berlin and Moscow."

PatPatriot · Dec 12, 2003

How ya doin X?
X and Angus.
I heard somewhere today that the Canadian thing was a snafu and was going to get squared away...As far as the other three countries that the US saved from the nazis and hitler...that Andrew Sullivan piece sums it up.

xpanda · Dec 13, 2003

Apparently Chretien, who is since out of office, misunderstood Bush on the phone Thursday morning. Chrietien said that he thought we would in fact be eligible for contracts, but in an article I read a few hours later, Bush said that, no, we are only eligible for sub-contracts.

Woody0 · Dec 13, 2003

It's not clear to me whether the decision on rebuilding contracts came from George Bush or from the folks in the Pentagon who are running the country.

The details can be found at http://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/pdf/D_F.pdf in a document signed by Paul Wolfowitz.

D2bets · Dec 13, 2003

I'm not sure that Geogre Bush makes any decisions. Of course that's not the point...he's the President so the buck stops at his desk, whether or not he wishes to acknowledge it. I've never seen a President quicker to take credit for perceived successes and push off blame on others for blunders.

xpanda · Dec 14, 2003

A little blurb just scrolled across Global newsdesk: PM Martin will continue to aid in Iraq reconstruction.

Angus, despite everything, I am pleased with this news.

SENDITIN · Dec 16, 2003

Just saw this come across the wire 12/16/03:

France, Germany Agree to Ease Iraq's Debt
U.S. Envoy Builds Support on Trip to Europe

BERLIN (Dec. 16) -- A German government spokesman said Tuesday that Germany, France and the United States agreed they were prepared to offer substantial debt relief to Iraq to aid the country's reconstruction.
________________________________________________
Oh my God how emptyheaded Bush was!! Debt relief and construction contracts are totally independent!! What a jerk he is!! And yet a couple of days later you see the news above.