Heres what Buddah Moore left out but the Toronto Sun didn't>

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Truth loses in Iraq war
Toronto Sun ^ | June 26, 2004 | Peter Worthington


Increasingly, many Americans (and others) are distressed at media reports from Iraq, that they feel are distorted and create a false impression.

There's some truth to this -- witness CNN jumping uncritically to report that Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld okayed the use of so-called waterboard torture that simulates drowning in order to extract confessions.

This subsequently turned out to be untrue -- although Rumsfeld okayed a number of interrogation techniques, but nothing that violated the Geneva Convention. What he okayed was interrogators yelling at prisoners, offering inducements, the use of multiple interrogators, using lies to get info, deceit, false documents, but nothing injurious or life-threatening.

Prisoners may be denied hot food and "condemned" to eat MREs (Meals Ready to Eat), which, horrors, are what American soldiers eat in the field. Oh, the inhumanity ...

President George W. Bush is on record vowing that the "principles" of the Geneva Convention will apply to all prisoners.

As for the despicable (but not lethal) abuse of Iraq prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison, the U.S. now has footage of Iraqi guards slowly and imaginatively killing prisoners bit by bit to reassure Saddam Hussein and his perverted, homicidal sons.

Frankly, I'd argue that these films be widely shown, if only to put "torture" into perspective -- such as Muslim militants decapitating hostages. How are such people reformed or re-educated into cultural decency?

In truth, they can't be. Putting current events into perspective is never easy and rarely appreciated. But it's sometimes necessary.

Different perspective

I received the following from Simma Holt, former Liberal MP under Pierre Trudeau and a News Hall of Fame journalist from B.C.

Where Simma -- no fan of the Bush family -- got this I've no idea, but it's a perspective that often differs from what we get from media reports:

Last January, there were 39 combat-related killings in Iraq. In the city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the same month. That's just one American city -- about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war because Iraq never threatened America, it could be recalled that in 1941 President Franklin Roosevelt went to war with Germany, which never attacked America. Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 American lives were lost -- an average of 112,500 per year.

President Harry Truman concluded the war against Japan ... and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked America as al-Qaida did, but from 1950-1953, 55,000 U.S. lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

Vietnam 'quagmire'

John Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked. President Lyndon Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost -- an average of 5,800 per year.

When he was president, Bill Clinton went to war in Kosovo, without UN or French consent. Serbia never attacked America. Clinton was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked the West on multiple occasions.

In the two years since 9/11, Bush has liberated two countries. Crushed the Taliban. Crippled al-Qaida. Put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but it took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound -- a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time that it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose law firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida.

From this perspective, President Bush as commander-in-chief is doing a great job, with military morale high.

Some people just don't see all the facts.
 

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Biased foreign journalism, doesn't mean a thing

How about finding some American based coverage to back up your ongoing, sickening ass kissing of junior and his buddies?
 

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Simma does make some good points, but unfortunately, also makes at least one factual error: "In 1941, President Roosevlet went to war with Germany, which never attacked America." She/he neglects to point out that within days after Pearl Harbor, Germany declared war on the U.S. It was not the other way around.
 

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is not high, I don't know where the author gets this idea. It may be at an all-time low from all accounts. If the author does this poorly with that fact, how is the rest of the article to be taken?
 

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If you'd ever picked up a physical copy of the Toronto Sun, you would never have posted it here. First, this paper appeals to a largely blue-collar, dumbass crowd (which is not to say that blue-collar and dumbass are synonymous, just that this crowd happens to be both.) There are more ads for erotic massage and phone sex lines than anything else; the only credible section in this paper is its Sports coverage. As far as news goes, I do believe their editors attended the same schools of journalism as those of the Enquirer.

Interestingly, however, this is Canada's most right-wing paper. Even the National Post has a tendency to offer up some actual journalism, which, from time to time, includes an endorsement of something well-meaning from the left. The Toronto Sun, however, would find itself offended if a homeless person used their paper as a pillow. Which, incidentally, is about all it's good for.

But what is so revolting about this paper is not just that it appeals to blue collar or that it is right wing or that it is full of smut. What makes it revolting is that it is all three of these things at the same time ... if you liken yourself a racist, territorial, me-first, philandering dolt who routinely smashes beer cans against his forehead, then by all means, enjoy your daily Sun.
 

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It may be all of that but the column is accurate....unlike real uppity Manhattan smary condescending Mike Moore and the limosine liberals NY Times et al.
 

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You're right, in a way, that the article is true ... the US does start far too many wars.
 

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I agree...but the US did not start this one.This is a continuation of a UN war and 17 UN resolutions.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
I agree...but the US did not start this one.This is a continuation of a UN war and 17 UN resolutions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

icon_smile.gif


You've been meddling bigtime in the middle east for 50 years.
Your invasion is a direct extension of your foreign policy.

But no-one else has that policy.

Which is why you are on your own, (apart from some tokenism from allies).

---------------------------------

Anyway, I don't think that this Administration actually wants to leave Iraq.
So the bombs etc save them from trying to come up with an excuse to hang about.

You're on a mission from God dude (until the oil runs out).

[This message was edited by eek on June 27, 2004 at 06:32 AM.]
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
I agree...but the US did not start this one.This is a continuation of a UN war and 17 UN resolutions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bullshit.

If it's a UN war, then wouldn't it have been up to the UN to fight it? Funny, I don't recall the UN offering approval on any of this crap ...

I worry about you, Patriot. I thought that by now you'd have been able to see that this war had nothing whatsoever to do with security or defense or preemption or anything of the sort. You're a very stubborn man.
 

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Then what good were the resolutions??

They were written to keep Saddam under wraps to which he signed to (originally) and shit on every one of them.
 

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Iraq had talks on buying uranium for nukes: FT
Reuters ^ | 6.28.04



Iraq had talks on buying uranium for nukes: FT

(Reuters)

28 June 2004

LONDON - Iraq was among several countries in negotiations to buy supplies of illicit uranium from Niger at least three years before the US-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein, the Financial Times reported on Monday.

Intelligence officers learned between 1999 and 2001 that smugglers planned to sell illicitly mined uranium from the West African country to several states, including Iraq, the newspaper reported, citing senior European intelligence sources.

Although the European intelligence material suggested a proactive role by the sellers, intelligence officials said that Iraq actively sought supplies, the FT said.

In the run-up to the war against Iraqi, President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair both accused Saddam of trying to buy uranium from Niger as part of a programme to build nuclear weapons.

But their assertions were widely dismissed after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN nuclear watchdog, said documents meant to support the claims were clearly forged.

Although the United States later retracted the accusation, Britain stuck to its guns and continued to declare it had additional evidence not seen by the IAEA. The accusation formed part of Britain’s September 2002 dossier on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction which Blair used to justify going to war.

The FT said the smugglers planned to sell uranium mined illicitly in Niger to Iran, Libya, China and North Korea.

Despite evidence that it was supplied to at least two of those countries, it was not clear if talks with Iraq ever led to exports, the report added.

The intelligence officials said human intelligence sources showed there was sufficient evidence to conclude the West African country was the centre of an international uranium smuggling operation.

“The sources were trustworthy. There were several sources, and they were reliable sources,” an unidentified official involved in the European intelligence gathering operation told the paper.

To date, despite widespread searches in Iraq, there have been no discoveries of an active programme to build weapons of mass destruction.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
Then what good were the resolutions??

They were written to keep Saddam under wraps to which he signed to (originally) and shit on every one of them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. But when the UN Security Council vetoes a resolution to invade Iraq, the US is just as guilty of violating resolutions as Saddam. If the we're going to use UN resolution-breaking as a benchmark for preemptive attacks, then you'd best start watching your back.
 

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Would that be the same UN with its massively corrupt oil-for-food program to the tune of $10 billion being stolen from Iraqis? The one where everone including Kofi Annan's son was on Saddam's payroll? I don't recall.
 

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