They won't join them because its pointless. I have made this clear a few times on here Oldman, maybe search from prior posts on it. If the WTO were to rule against the US then Antigua would get the chance to issue retalitory taxes in the amount that the court determines they lost. Guess who pays for those duties and taxes. Yep, the citizens of Antigua will pay through higher costs at no benefit to them. If Antigua had a thriving trade market then they could do something, but all these countries that have sportsbooks do little trading on the international markets that the US competes with. They all depend on heavy amounts of imports from the US and if they tax them all they will do is inflict pain on their own economies.
I'm not sure its quite so simple.
First we need to wait for the WTO decision and the US response.
If Antigua wins the decision and the US ignores it I think the logical thing for Antigua is to attempt to enlist support from the European Union. After all a little country would be being squelched by the local bully who wasn't playing fair. Since the Europeans are big players in the game they should try to get them to do some arm twisting.
First we need to wait for the WTO decision and the US response.
If Antigua wins the decision and the US ignores it I think the logical thing for Antigua is to attempt to enlist support from the European Union. After all a little country would be being squelched by the local bully who wasn't playing fair. Since the Europeans are big players in the game they should try to get them to do some arm twisting.
Yeah right. Hey don't get me wrong I wish there was more that could be done here, but there isn't. The WTO isn't like the FBI or CIA. All they do is pass judgement on financial matters and then make punishments as purely financial decisions. I was with some people in CR that were talking about doing exactly this. I never talked to the people in Antigua who put this through but hey more power to them. But the people in CR came to simple conclusions:
1. Its hard to prove that you were harmed when people are still posting up offshore.
2. You have to come up with an agreed figure that you were harmed in dollars. You think number 1 is hard, try this one. How many millions of dollars did squares not send offshore and how much money could you make off them. Now back that up with good data and proof. That will be your judgement amount.
3. You win the case you get the right to retaliate if the US doesn't desist in its actions. The US Congress will laugh at you. I mean even if they got a $50 million judgement that is chump change and considering they keep coming up with fraudulent numbers like $7 billion industry they aren't going to think twice about ignoring you.
4. So now for the "victory" all you can do is impose taxes on them. YOU can impose taxes on them. You can't take half and give that to the EU or whoever else, they have to be your charges and they have to affect the losing country. EU isn't going to join in because once again a small judgement against a country they have little financial interests in. And as I stated clearly, there is little Antigua could go out and penalize the US with that wouldn't just be hurting their own citizens. They might SAY they are punishing the Americans by doing something like tripling tariffs on American oranges to the point where Brazilian oranges are all that sell there, but that would just encourage the Brazilians to raise their prices and sell for about 5% less than the Americans. Sure the Americans are hurt, but so are the people of Antigua that endured a price increase in the name of punishment of the US.
This would work if it were the UK or some major player, but its not. Antigua can make a convincing case and I wouldn't be surprised if they did get some acknowledgment. As for it having any effect on the policy of the US government, well don't hold your breath for that.
1. Its hard to prove that you were harmed when people are still posting up offshore.
2. You have to come up with an agreed figure that you were harmed in dollars. You think number 1 is hard, try this one. How many millions of dollars did squares not send offshore and how much money could you make off them. Now back that up with good data and proof. That will be your judgement amount.
3. You win the case you get the right to retaliate if the US doesn't desist in its actions. The US Congress will laugh at you. I mean even if they got a $50 million judgement that is chump change and considering they keep coming up with fraudulent numbers like $7 billion industry they aren't going to think twice about ignoring you.
4. So now for the "victory" all you can do is impose taxes on them. YOU can impose taxes on them. You can't take half and give that to the EU or whoever else, they have to be your charges and they have to affect the losing country. EU isn't going to join in because once again a small judgement against a country they have little financial interests in. And as I stated clearly, there is little Antigua could go out and penalize the US with that wouldn't just be hurting their own citizens. They might SAY they are punishing the Americans by doing something like tripling tariffs on American oranges to the point where Brazilian oranges are all that sell there, but that would just encourage the Brazilians to raise their prices and sell for about 5% less than the Americans. Sure the Americans are hurt, but so are the people of Antigua that endured a price increase in the name of punishment of the US.
This would work if it were the UK or some major player, but its not. Antigua can make a convincing case and I wouldn't be surprised if they did get some acknowledgment. As for it having any effect on the policy of the US government, well don't hold your breath for that.
I don't believe so, but could be wrong. I know a lot didn't at first and then got into it, often by teaming up with a book or linemaker in another country. None that backed off due to US pressure. Also note that the UK government has written a couple position papers on this and every time they defended the right of their bookmakers to take foreign bets, going so far to put in clear language that they conclude that a wager is made on the server of the BOOKMAKER not on the computer of the player. Is the US Justice Department listening?
I want "free Speach". Just as Political party contributors are free to give what they want to parties in the name of "free speech", citizens should have the same right to play WHERE they wish in the name of "free speech".
Let the US make a law that forces the offshore places to "Register" so they can be checked out -- and then all is well. I mean if the Communist Party can run someone for elected office--where is the justice here?
Let the US make a law that forces the offshore places to "Register" so they can be checked out -- and then all is well. I mean if the Communist Party can run someone for elected office--where is the justice here?
WildBill, I hear you out and loud. It makes perfect sense. Let me ask you, does this set a precedent in the wagering industry?
I think there will be a time when most of the offshore books located in the caribbean will have approached the European market. It would be possible that many of these books merge or get bought up by big established names from other geographical origins. Sort of what happened with WWTS.
I understand Washington is probably laughing their asses off at Antigua right now. But will this set a precedent for other jurisdictions to use on their benefit in a future?
I can see the government of Australia having legitimate interests in assuring the operability of their caribbean books.
What do you think?
I think there will be a time when most of the offshore books located in the caribbean will have approached the European market. It would be possible that many of these books merge or get bought up by big established names from other geographical origins. Sort of what happened with WWTS.
I understand Washington is probably laughing their asses off at Antigua right now. But will this set a precedent for other jurisdictions to use on their benefit in a future?
I can see the government of Australia having legitimate interests in assuring the operability of their caribbean books.
What do you think?
I check here around lunchtime as well...
As for the others, I doubt it. Australia isn't exactly vigorously defending its gambling interests these days and the UK handles it simply by buying up books in other areas to handle the US sports because its too valuable and too sophisticated to just build up from scratch with a name that no one has heard of. As many have said, it works both ways. We all know who Harrahs is and Bellagio as well, but go to the UK and outside of Caesars, because of their boxing history, no US casino operator is well known. Americans haven't heard much about Victor Chandler or William Hill and a few have heard about Ladbrokes only because of racetracks, but to Americans these names mean nothing. Gala to us is probably some supermarket, not a big bingo and gambling operator. With that in mind, it doesn't matter much if they handle the action in the UK. They are better off going to where the talent is, where people are already booking US sports and where they can lure that knowledge away. After all its next to impossible to get some American guy to go to the UK when he lives in a place like Costa Rica or Curacao after he realizes just how much tax he will pay and how much higher the cost of living is, not to mention the difference from living in a place where grey is the color of life much of the year! With all this in mind my answer is simply that I don't see it ever becoming big business in the UK itself and I don't think the UK government will go out of its way to speak up for a UK business that can't get a fair shake for its Antiguan operation or wherever it is, as long as its not in the British Isles.
As for the others, I doubt it. Australia isn't exactly vigorously defending its gambling interests these days and the UK handles it simply by buying up books in other areas to handle the US sports because its too valuable and too sophisticated to just build up from scratch with a name that no one has heard of. As many have said, it works both ways. We all know who Harrahs is and Bellagio as well, but go to the UK and outside of Caesars, because of their boxing history, no US casino operator is well known. Americans haven't heard much about Victor Chandler or William Hill and a few have heard about Ladbrokes only because of racetracks, but to Americans these names mean nothing. Gala to us is probably some supermarket, not a big bingo and gambling operator. With that in mind, it doesn't matter much if they handle the action in the UK. They are better off going to where the talent is, where people are already booking US sports and where they can lure that knowledge away. After all its next to impossible to get some American guy to go to the UK when he lives in a place like Costa Rica or Curacao after he realizes just how much tax he will pay and how much higher the cost of living is, not to mention the difference from living in a place where grey is the color of life much of the year! With all this in mind my answer is simply that I don't see it ever becoming big business in the UK itself and I don't think the UK government will go out of its way to speak up for a UK business that can't get a fair shake for its Antiguan operation or wherever it is, as long as its not in the British Isles.
