WildBill said:
The Best number train done left by the time these folks drink their first cup of coffee..Now if you are referring to the Best number later in the day. That might very well be true. The Openers are the Best number! obtw if you beat one of these small shops up, one of two things is going to happen. One is Quick and the other is Always slow! You are cut off QUICK, and we will pay you when we get around to it, maybe!! been there done that!
Well you obviously have issues I and the vast majority of bettors don't have. Sorry you have problems, but I have never been stiffed in my life and had my limits cut once in recent years. Big deal, without a fuss took my money out and put it elsewhere. These guys don't owe us a living and we don't owe them any action at bad numbers. Its a fair trade-off in my book, but I know for some it will never be enough.
Insiders said:
For the most part you are probably right about the virgin # being the best, but a lot of "sharp" action comes in late and if you have a slow moving rec book espeically off-don Best why not use it?
ME I always bet between the Virgin # and late action to make sure I get the worst # avaliable.:nohead:
This is actually off the thread topic..
Getting a chance to hear openers is great if you have a talent for predicting line movement. Lay 4.5 on Sunday night for a college football game and take 6.5 late in the week works but if the number closes 2.5 then you are stuck with an opener of little value.
wil.
Getting a chance to hear openers is great if you have a talent for predicting line movement. Lay 4.5 on Sunday night for a college football game and take 6.5 late in the week works but if the number closes 2.5 then you are stuck with an opener of little value.
wil.
Insiders said:
Insiders, there was a sharp guy posting in early 02 named Udakane. I used him as a referral with a book and then he disappeared. Would you be that gentleman or know of him? No answer is required if not applicable. I guess I am some what a SQUARE as I have never been booted. Limits cut but NO boot. I would consider it an honor to be booted by Pinny!:lolBIG: LT
arty:
Insiders said:
wow!!! anyone can beat the opening number, I mean anyone. How hard would that be. You continue to be one of only a few people I have ever heard that sticks with this statement.
You are a alot sharper and ahead of the game if you beat the closing number. Show me someone that beats the closing number in hoops by a point and I will show you a guarantee winner.
Coach LT said:Insiders, there was a sharp guy posting in early 02 named Udakane. I used him as a referral with a book and then he disappeared. Would you be that gentleman or know of him? No answer is required if not applicable. I guess I am some what a SQUARE as I have never been booted. Limits cut but NO boot. I would consider it an honor to be booted by Pinny!:lolBIG: LT
Coach
I know who are talking about and i think that guy had a stroke or some kinda health issue about that time. And Yes he was Super Sharp, no doubt. Just slighty older than you and myself by the way. He was in CR when that happened too.
ice man said:
I NEVER said that i beat the Opener, i said that those "recreational books" only throw up numbers after the smoke clears. And you still to this day dont understand, The Opener is the ONLY true number. Besides who in their right mind would even want to play to a number that has been ?"trampled" on by Gawd only knows who? Not me! I myself dont put as much respect to the closer as i do the opener by No means.
College Football numbers are put up at Cris on Sunday Night, Now that set of numbers is Really the Only True set of numbers for the whole week...IMO. And they do that for a reason just like the Stardust Hotel used to hold the lotttery for the wiseguys to bet Any number into shape before they started takeing Big action to the set.
Most people that play serious, are always trying to "beat" the number as they well should ,as you never know when one is going to fall close. In my lifetime i have seen many many numbers fall within the opener and closer, in football and college basketball for sure. So in that case the opener was the Best number.
Just start watching this an see if this is not a true statement in your lifetime. They still fall close every one in awhile!
Insiders said:
Insiders, I have a post in the Cris Loyalty thread about me and Cris. The bottom line is I opened an account just to get the opening numbers and almost nothing else. As a Veteran of these wars, we almost never play the bad side. I think I only had one game that my opening play went against me. And that was just a 1/2 point. One good thing about age is you should have acquired a " Feel" about the way the line will move. Can't
wait for CFB! LTCoach
I firmly agree with you on the Openers and Cris. Lots think that they might be on the wrong side and the number will move against you before the week is out, but like you i seldom find that to be the case.
Locals have had Great success by waiting until one hour before game time to post up there numbers, talk about some TUFF stuff now there it is! lol
But i have found out that you must have some of those guys around if you want to try to middle something or want off of part of your wager. As you well know there is hardly ever a Full point difference in the offshore lines as many follow some ohter shop and move when they move to avoid that Big bet at that price. Which sometimes is good and sometimes not so good at all.
I have Locals that take pruddy good and only move according to "their" action so many time i beat the offshore by as much as 2 Full points.
I firmly agree with you on the Openers and Cris. Lots think that they might be on the wrong side and the number will move against you before the week is out, but like you i seldom find that to be the case.
Locals have had Great success by waiting until one hour before game time to post up there numbers, talk about some TUFF stuff now there it is! lol
But i have found out that you must have some of those guys around if you want to try to middle something or want off of part of your wager. As you well know there is hardly ever a Full point difference in the offshore lines as many follow some ohter shop and move when they move to avoid that Big bet at that price. Which sometimes is good and sometimes not so good at all.
I have Locals that take pruddy good and only move according to "their" action so many time i beat the offshore by as much as 2 Full points.
Insiders,
I understand your point. My #1 goal when betting hoops is to beat the closing number. That number is the number set by the marketplace and is the "true" indicator of what the game should be. It is bet in and out , up and down and is truly hashed out when it closes. That to me is a WAY more ACCURATE number established by MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars by tens of thousand of minds.The opener is set by a few guys who have to make a number up in a short peorid if time.
I have read a few pieces on this debate by i can tell you from firsthand knowledge that with that goal in mind (beating the closing number) in CBB and NBA with NO handicapping involved I won over 65 units (betting 1 unit a game). With over 700 bets placed I hit close to 56% (the highest I ever have over that many plays). I doubt I was that lucky. Is this scientific proof ? I doubt it but I think it gives you the best chance of beating hoops
Not saying your way is wrong,I guess you have your beliefs and I will have mine but I have been given advice from some the brightest people/gamblers I know and they ALL have said the same thing, to concentrate on beating the closing number and I will pass that advice to anyone I know as the "best advice i can give them" . Good Luck
I understand your point. My #1 goal when betting hoops is to beat the closing number. That number is the number set by the marketplace and is the "true" indicator of what the game should be. It is bet in and out , up and down and is truly hashed out when it closes. That to me is a WAY more ACCURATE number established by MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars by tens of thousand of minds.The opener is set by a few guys who have to make a number up in a short peorid if time.
I have read a few pieces on this debate by i can tell you from firsthand knowledge that with that goal in mind (beating the closing number) in CBB and NBA with NO handicapping involved I won over 65 units (betting 1 unit a game). With over 700 bets placed I hit close to 56% (the highest I ever have over that many plays). I doubt I was that lucky. Is this scientific proof ? I doubt it but I think it gives you the best chance of beating hoops
Not saying your way is wrong,I guess you have your beliefs and I will have mine but I have been given advice from some the brightest people/gamblers I know and they ALL have said the same thing, to concentrate on beating the closing number and I will pass that advice to anyone I know as the "best advice i can give them" . Good Luck
ice man said:
Understand what you are saying.
Now lets take a For Example!
Lets say that Florida in the cbb opened -3. the wiseguys pound that number of -3 and -3.5, the makers move the game to 4 the public see's this and pounds it again at -4 and -4.5. The makers keep moveing the number until they finally get someone on the + at +5.
Now the game falls close the the number an lands on 4, YOU tie the game, and the Wiseguys such as BW cash BOTH of their tickets. Now in this case the Opener was the ONLY good number, Everything else had tie written on it, or looser!
obtw i congrats on the winners, if i would have played that many games there is not enough money here to make ends meet for me ! lol
Quality NOT QAUNITY here. But i am from the Old school too!
It always amazes me how some players will go for the big bonus no matter how risky the sportsbook is. I guess it's Ok if you're a person that loses constantly, and the bonus helps you get down a few more bets. But if you win a lot of the time, or even a recreational bettor that goes on streaks some of the time, you know you want to get paid when you cash out with no problems or heartburn waiting to get paid.
and the exact opposite can be said.
Game opens +5. You beat the opener(which YOU should do 100% of the time) and get +6 and game closes at 8. I end up getting +9 a half hour before tipoff. Game lands on 8 , you lose, I win.
I guess we have are own styles. I am going to watch the Tiger game (starts at 10pm). Too each his own. If we are both winning than who cares, right? See ya.
Game opens +5. You beat the opener(which YOU should do 100% of the time) and get +6 and game closes at 8. I end up getting +9 a half hour before tipoff. Game lands on 8 , you lose, I win.
I guess we have are own styles. I am going to watch the Tiger game (starts at 10pm). Too each his own. If we are both winning than who cares, right? See ya.
obtw. I was reading your thread about those guys putting a delay on your account. That bunch is under the same umberlla as many shops are that VIP controls.
They asked me to leave there long ago too. That group caters to the recreational betters and they Dont like winners. Even bettin only a dollar to each prop, if you get a few cashouts you will encounter more problems as well.
They asked me to leave there long ago too. That group caters to the recreational betters and they Dont like winners. Even bettin only a dollar to each prop, if you get a few cashouts you will encounter more problems as well.
