GOING AGAINST THE PUBLIC....

Search

ODU GURU
Joined
Feb 26, 1999
Messages
20,881
Tokens
New read on Home Page that I thought might interest some of you...

http://www.therx.com/nm/templates/article.asp?articleid=1247&zoneid=1


GOING AGAINST THE PUBLIC 09/16/03 - Steve "Cubby" Drumm


One of the most effective ways to beat the NFL pointspread, particularly after the first two weeks of the regular season, is to go against the betting public. This is because the NFL is the sport that is not only the most heavily bet, but also the sport where the public does the poorest. Since the public wins less than 50 percent of the time, they'd do better if they flipped a coin.

Therefore, I naturally incorporate going against the public into my system. Specifically, I use my inside contacts to find out where the public is on games and then usually go the other way, especially if the public is lopsided on a game (70/30 or more).

I by no means do this blindly, as it accounts for about 30 to 35 percent of my system. But very rarely do I bet on a game where the public has a lopsided opinion. When I do, it’s almost always a small play.

On the other hand it is likely, but by no means certain, that I will go against the public in games where they have a lopsided opinion.

Contrary to popular belief, one can't look at line moves to determine where the public is on a game. This is true for several reasons.

First, where the public is on a game (the number of people betting on each side in a game) and where the money is not always one and the same. Often times the public will be on one side in a game and the money will be even or on the other side.

Second, line moves are often determined by which side the ‘wise’ guys play, not which side the general public plays.

Third, often times the linesmakers adjust the line to take into account injuries they did not know about earlier in the week.

Finally, oddsmakers often move the lines without concomitant action as a means of fooling the public. They often do this to get them to bet on the wrong side or to get more action on a game.

Why does the public do so poorly wagering on the NFL? Well the fact that the NFL is the sport that is the most heavily bet is precisely one of the main reasons why the public does worse on it than it does on all other sports.

Serious betters, including ‘wise’ guys, have a tendency to bet most or all sports, as they are doing it to make money (they view their sports betting as a business).

This serves in contrast with more casual betters, who wager primarily because they have an interest in the sport or are seeking a "rush". Since the NFL is the most followed sport in the United States, it naturally attracts a lot of casual betters. This, in turn, causes the skill level of the median bettor to be lower in the NFL than it is in other sports.

Additionally, since the NFL is the sport that is the most heavily bet, that gives the bookmakers an incentive to concentrate a disproportionate amount of their attention and time on setting sharp NFL lines. Those lines are designed to maximize their profit margins for the NFL, and hence their overall profitability.

This brings me to my next point. The lines are set in such a way as to either get equal action on a game or to get the majority of the people on the wrong side.

How do bookmakers do this? They first decide the true line, or what I like to call the "value line" is. Say for example that the Packers are playing the Bears at home, and the bookmakers determine that the true value line is Green Bay minus 6 1/2.

This means the bookmakers believe that if the Packers played the Bears 1,000 times in Green Bay (hypothetically, of course, with each team having the same players injured in each game as they do now), Green Bay would win by seven points or more 500 times.

However, contrary to popular belief, bookmakers don't stop there. They then gauge what the range is of what I like to call the "public perception line" (which reflects the opinion of the median bettor), i.e. the line that will evenly divide the public 50/50.

Say, for example, that in the Packers/Bears scenario bookmakers determine that the public perception line is somewhere between Green Bay minus eight and Green Bay minus 10. They'll naturally set the actual pointspread at Green Bay minus eight because that is the number within the public perception line range that is closest to the "value line".

Thus, if it turns out that the public perception line really is Green Bay minus eight, the bookmakers will get even action on the game and they will be guaranteed to make the vigorish as a profit.

To take things to the other extreme, if the public perception line is really Green Bay minus 10, then bookmakers will get a disproportionate amount of action on the Packers. Since the actual pointspread (Green Bay minus eight) is greater than the value line (Green Bay minus 6 1/2), the Bears would be the ‘right’ side or the ‘smart’ side

Hence, the majority of the public is on the wrong side of the game. And this example illustrates the main reason why when the public is lopsided and usually on the wrong side.

If you would like to go with one of America's top NFL handicappers who incorporates going against the public into his system, then give me a call at 1-866-292-6023. Also check out my Web site at www.cubbydrumm.com.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
42,730
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First, where the public is on a game (the number of people betting on each side in a game) and where the money is not always one and the same. Often times the public will be on one side in a game and the money will be even or on the other side.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a big misconception by bettors i have seen on the net.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
26
Tokens
shrink... you know i stand up for this place all the time. i like it a lot. but that article was written more than 10 years ago by jack painter in the las vegas sports journal. i remember it very well and no i dont have a copy of it anymore.

plagerism is not cool sorry!
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,854
Tokens
Some good points made. Doesn't give me the slightest intention of ever paying for picks, regardless of his 'superb analytical, logical, and quantitative abilities', but I did notice at the monitoring service that a 'Steve Drumm' is picking 62% winners yet is only up 1.1 units - while the top earner is up 126.02 units at only 53%!

I think it would be timely to post another article on the problems with the Kelley Criteria, as evidenced by these vastly different results - that, and betting heavy ML favorites who lose.

No offense to Cubby, just made me think of this.
 

ODU GURU
Joined
Feb 26, 1999
Messages
20,881
Tokens
Yes Man...

I was not aware of this and I thank you for pointing it out...

Ken
 

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Messages
4,398
Tokens
I will let you guys figure out who wrote it? but I will give you my opinion on fading the public. I think it only gives you a real edge in one instance and that is when you know the public is all over a side and the line doesn't move or it moves in the wrong direction. The reason I believe this is if I see a line taking a free fall especially through Key #s, odds are with it it is not just the public nailing it but sharps as well, and it also sets up a middle something the books obviously don't want.

When I see the opposite though, (an obvious public play but line is running in wrong direction) I jump with both feet.

Just my experience.
 

The Great Govenor of California
Joined
Feb 21, 2001
Messages
15,972
Tokens
Shrink,

I see your off to a 3-7 start in the Hilton
 

ODU GURU
Joined
Feb 26, 1999
Messages
20,881
Tokens
Railbird,

Now why did u have to go blabbing about how much I suck on this thread?

icon_frown.gif
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
316
Tokens
The interesting thing about the betting public, particularly in the NFL....

If you live around Miami, the betting public was one way, and if you live around New York, the betting public was the other way(in the recent Miami-Jets game as an example).

The betting public is notorious in loyalty to
a) its own teams
b) perennial favorite teams especially against teams of less strength (real or perceived)

So when judging who the public is on, be very careful you are not just hearing the local opinion!
 

ODU GURU
Joined
Feb 26, 1999
Messages
20,881
Tokens
Good Post Tablarasa and welcome again to the site...
applaudit.gif


Don't be a stranger!

Thanks,
Ken
 

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 1999
Messages
75,444
Tokens
The RAIDERS are one of the premier go against teams when the public is betting them.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3
Tokens
Yesman,
Being accused of plagiarism is obviously a very serious charge. Why I do not doubt your assertion that Jack Painter wrote an article very similar to mine over 10 years ago in the Las Vegas Sports Journal, I can honestly say that as God as my witness I never read it and hence, I didn't and couldn't have plagiarized it. In fact, I didn't start getting involved in sports betting until October of 1998, as my website (www.cubbydrumm.com) states (i.e. I've been handicapping the NFL for 5 years now). I've never even read the Las Vegas Sports Journal, and I don't even know if it exists anymore. Jack Painter may have made a lot of the same points that I did, but any and all similarities between the article that he wrote a decade ago and mine are purely coincidental. And that's the damn truth!
Steve "Cubby" Drumm
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3
Tokens
Jazz,
The reason why I am up only 1.1 units at the AADSS Sports Monitor is because I have only submitted 9 picks so far, all in the NFL of course. My record is 5-3-1. I tend to have more plays starting in October, as I limit the number of my plays during the first month of the season.
You don't have the slightest intention of paying for my picks? Well for starters, I don't ask you for any money up front. I'm willing to give you a full weekend worth of picks and put money into your pocket FIRST before I ask you for a cent. And my "combo system" (the ONLY combo system that I have utilized the past 2 years) is an astonishing 35-13-1 (73%) ATS the past 2 seasons, which is when I first started tracking it. With you not having to pay a cent up front, how can you lose?
Steve "Cubby" Drumm
 

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
10,363
Tokens
The NFL is rolling the dice period!!!

There is not such thing as being sharp, zero!!!

Baseball is the only game where there is such a thing as a wise guy.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,854
Tokens
Fair enough, Cubby, as far as your record goes - throw out the push and it's around 62.5%.

No, thanks, it's impossible to even give me picks for free for a lifetime - but that's for any tout, not singling you out. If you do well over that stretch, good for you, you'll gain some clients that way I'm sure. If you don't do well, then those playing your picks don't do well, and won't sign up. Either way, 'random walk' theory says you've got a decent chance of posting a winning percentage of picks, so it's always smart marketing to offer that. However, once the free period is over, 3 things can happen with your future picks over the season:

1 - you post a percentage of winners which, when factored in with the client's cost for your services, mean that the client will lose money overall

2 - same as #1, but the client will break-even

3 - the client makes money - what percentage of the time will the client have to win in order to make enough money for themselves to make it worthwhile and to pay for your services?

No one can guarantee anything about sports - not that you mentioned the word. That means 2 out of the 3 things that can happen are not good - so I have never seen the point in paying for picks.

With apologies up-front, I simply don't believe in systems. I believe far more in middling. Only fair you know - I have no interest in SU betting except for an extremely rare play for the hell of it, read far too much and experienced all the 'fun' of it back in the 1970's - thank God I didn't lose real money.

icon_smile.gif
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,250
Tokens
If you want credibility, you need to get monitored by either the sports monitor in Oklahoma, Sports watch out of vegas or bigguy.com
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
484
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The NFL is rolling the dice period!!!

There is not such thing as being sharp, zero!!!

Baseball is the only game where there is such a thing as a wise guy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 out of 3 here ain't bad jj.
icon_wink.gif
 

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
5,412
Tokens
My sentiments are the same as Big Deal...it's a bit disappointing to see this tout promotion stuff, even if the article is intelligently worded. Makes me feel like I've been conned into watching an infomercial. My stance on paying for picks: I'd rather spend 8 hours a day artificially inseminating turkeys -- and that includes the hand job.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,883
Messages
13,574,674
Members
100,882
Latest member
topbettor24
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com