German smoking ban reminds too many Germans of Adolf Hitler

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bushman
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Pete Robinson: German ban goes up in smoke

29 April, 2008
By Pete Robinson

There's a war going on in Germany, and this time they're winning.

I'm talking about the German smoking ban, currently jammed firmly in reverse gear. Angela Merkel's government has faithfully copied the tactics employed by our own beloved Nu-Labour - lies, propaganda and junk science - yet they've failed miserably in theface of people-power.
Remember when we were being told our pubs had nothing to fear from the smoking ban? How commercially successful it had been in Ireland and the USA, where bars were teeming with 'new' customers?
In my discussions with German landlords and their customers, when I inform them of the damage it's doing to our own licenced trade I'm always met with gobsmacked, shocked surprise.
"No-oooo! You Englishers WANTED your smoking ban! Your pubs are all very busy now, we know this. Ya?"
They're being spoon-fed the same diet of State-sponsored bull***t that we were. They are told we Brits have all 'embraced' our ban, that our pubs and clubs have never been so busy, and that most smokers are giving up the weed as a direct result.
Amazingly they have all heard of the "Scottish Miracle", where heart attacks were virtually wiped out within one year of Scotland's smoking ban. I always said that lie would run and run - now we're exporting it.
The Germans blame you and me for their smoking ban, believing it's us Brits who are arrogantly imposing our current obsession with health matters on the rest of Europe. If only they knew the truth.
All I could do was bleat on about... yes, we have meekly accepted the ban without putting up a fight but under our elected dictatorship we had little choice. "Ve vere only following orders. For us ze var ist over".
But the Germans are made of sterner stuff and their smoking ban has a troubled history. In 2006 Angela Merkel's government introduced a nationwide blanket smoking ban. Within days it was humiliatingly repealed following massive public outcry and a series of legal challenges.
You see the German people are constitutionally protected from State-imposed unpopular laws, originally to protect them from any Nazi resurgence. So the ban was passed on for decision at local level in Germany's 16 different states.
The end result has been a patchwork quilt of watered-down restrictions which has thrown up all sorts of daft anomalies. In a small town near Trier, for example, I found a Shisha Cafe next door to a large, traditional tavern where smoking was banned.
The owner told me his wet sales had plummeted by 50% as customers had simply moved to the town's smaller bars where smoking was permitted.
In fact most states have opted for 'soft' smoking restrictions, where larger premises need merely to provide separate smoking and non-smoking rooms.
Bavaria had introduced the harshest bans, with smoking even banned inside the vast drinking tents of the annual Oktoberfest. Hardly surprising as the state is governed by the sister party to Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union.


However last month Bavarian voters gave them an absolute roasting in the local elections, barely two months after the ban was introduced. Now those same, previously 'anti' politicians are back-pedalling furiously having decided they now hate smoking bans.
Indoor smoking is already back on at the Oktoberfest, also in Munich and Nuremberg's historical brauhouses. Exemptions still in the pipeline will include fairer rules for most bars and even some restaurants.
This bizarre spectacle has been nervously scrutinised by other hard-line states who are moving heaven and earth to soften their restrictions.
In Berlin enforcement of their ban has been deferred until August while, following court action by a consortium of bar owners, small bars are to be exempt provided they display signs to warn customers they are entering a smoking venue.
Similar court cases are being heard all over Germany, much to the chagrin of German antis. Otmar Wiestler, leader of the German Cancer Research Center (DKFZ, their equivalent of our CRUK) is enraged at this turn of events.
"We are miles away from implementing comprehensive protection for non-smokers," said Wiestler.
Despite the positive news there are a great many German landlords losing out through this uncertainty. The German Hotel and Restaurant Association (Dehoga), which actively rallies against the ban, has released a report claiming that 58 percent of their member establishments have seen a sharp drop in business in 2008.
Uli Stegmaier, a Berlin barkeeper and father of five children, hanged himself last month having left a suicide note blaming the new public smoking ban for his decision.
Significantly ASH-uk highlighted this in their daily bulletin, as if it were something to gloat about.
But in general the anti-ban lobby are tipping the scales. There are regular demonstrations where thousands of bar owners march to raise awareness of their fears.
What I can't help but notice is a sense of unity about what they are doing. There are very few pubcos in Germany so representative bodies reflect the bar owner's interests, not the misguided greed of men-in-suits.
German 'community bar' owners have mobilised their customers who are only too willing to support them. Petitions abound everywhere and they are quite prepared to "fight them on the beaches".
Plus Germany has no equivalent of ASH, the obsessive, powerful state-sponsored 'charity' with a vested interest in the decimation of our pubs. Antis have far linfluence in Germany where the words 'majority opinion' aren't considered offensive.
Which begs the question we must all ask ourselves: if the Germans can fight to successfully gain a fair interpretation of anti-smoking laws at what point will we follow suit?
When we've lost half of our pubs? Two-thirds? Or never?
http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?storycode=59575
 

The Great Govenor of California
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smokers are scumbags, should make it illegal period.
 
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Eek ....

How did your buddy and mine not start a thread regarding this story:

"how any stories with Hitler in the title are not acceptable in this forum .."


Just curious how the Hall Monitor missed his "calling"
 

Member
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Doc I wouldn't expect you to see the difference between a news article and your constant "Bush = Hitler" bleatings.

You see Doc, unlike you I have a barometer to dintinguish between what is tasteful and what is offensive.

Also Doc, unlike you I can make a point and move on.

I'm happy for that ability, because if I didn't have it I could end of arguing with numbnuts like you, tr, and tgbn all day. You have to be able to let things go. Or else all your posts end up looking like this

------------------------------------

Damn right Railbird !!!

Rumsfeld
Rice
Rove
Cheney
Bush


Line up all 5 bastards .... dump their asses in cells and let the Hague
decide how their evil asses depart this earth


THERE IS NO DIFFC BETWEEN THE CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE 3RD AND 4TH REICHS
 

Triple digit silver kook
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eek, finally you can add a country to your shrinking list.

:smoker2:
 
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Eek:

watch out !!

I sense one of them threads started by "you know who" on this
forum today ...

How dare you bring up the name Hitler sir!!!
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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had my last smoke in an iowa pub last night eekster

the big government nanny state liberals that took over in 2006 put in a state wide smoking ban that goes into affect today

they also raised state cig taxes a buck
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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IC/u of iowa

also you can't smoke anywhere on campus now they hyper-liberal university put in its own shit as well.....

as for enforcement who knows
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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had my last smoke in an iowa pub last night eekster

the big government nanny state liberals that took over in 2006 put in a state wide smoking ban that goes into affect today

Ah yes, the ol' Create Thousands of Smoking Areas Directly Outside the Entrances law.......good stuff as long as non-smokers never have a need to either Enter or Exit while breathing.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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also the effect you are having on bar owners/bartender and waitresses tips who should be allowed to do whatever is legal under federal law in the building they own/occupy!!!

good way to throw more shit in J6Ps face right when he's already feeling the wrath of the economic doldrums on top of the recent flooding etc....

plus in this town we already have a few non smoking bars for those inclined....they cater to that market

now that everybody non smoking they probably going under

----------------------------------

Effects of 1998 California Smoking Ban on Bars, Taverns and Night Clubs

300 alcoholic beverage serving operations were surveyed. The sample was selected at random from a list of 7,216 beverage license holders provided by the Alcohol Beverage Control. The sample breaks down by property type as follows:
Type of Establishment
Percentage of Respondents
Bar Connected to Restaurant/Hotel
57.3%
Stand-alone Bar/Tavern
35.7%
Nightclub
7.0%

Of the 300 beverage operations surveyed, 3.7% of the establishments did not actively enforce the ban while an additional 22.6% indicated that customers simply ignored the ban. Overall, this implies that smoking still occurs in approximately one out of every four establishments.

The survey results indicate that the majority of establishments (59.3%) experienced a decrease in business since the ban went into effect on January 1, 1998, while 30.3% experienced no effect, 3.7% refused to answer or did not know and only 6.7% experienced an increase in business. The 178 establishments that experienced a decrease in business averaged a 26.2% decrease in sales, with over a third of the establishments (35.4%) experiencing a decline of over 30%. In contrast, the 20 establishments that experienced an increase in business averaged only a 7.8% increase in sales, with the majority (60.0%) experiencing less than 10% increase.

Of the establishments that experienced a decrease in business, 89.3% experienced a decrease in weekday customer traffic and 81.5% experienced a decrease in weekend customer traffic. In contrast, 60% of the establishments that experienced an increase in business experienced no effect to average weekday customer traffic, while 70% experienced an increase in weekend customer traffic.

Separating the respondents by establishment type indicates that bars attached to restaurants/hotels may have been less adversely affected than stand-alone establishments and nightclubs since the ban went into effect on January 1, 1998. According to the survey, only 44.8% of the connected establishments reported a decrease in business, as opposed to 81.3% of the stand-alones and 66.7% of the nightclubs. In terms of average customer traffic, only 47.4% of connected establishments indicated a decrease in weekday counts, while only 37.4% indicated a decrease in weekend counts. The largest percentage of connected establishments reported no effect to either weekday (47.4%) or weekend (49.1%) counts. In direct contrast, 79.6% of stand-alones and 61.9% of nightclubs indicated decreases in weekday customer traffic, while 75.0% of stand-alones and 57.1% of nightclubs indicated a decrease in weekend customer traffic.

The smoking ban appears to have had the following negative impact on the respondent's operations:

* 50.4% of the respondents indicated an increase in customer complaints/fights;
* 65.0% indicated a loss of regular customers;
* 59.0% indicated a loss of tips/gratuities for the bar and/or serving staff.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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had my last smoke in an iowa pub last night eekster

the big government nanny state liberals that took over in 2006 put in a state wide smoking ban that goes into affect today

they also raised state cig taxes a buck

i think eek long ago crossed the entire usa off his travel list, but if not, he now can cross iowa off the list.

:smoking:
 

New member
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Germany is just so weak now, look at their chancellor, a lesbian!
 

New member
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smokers are scumbags, should make it illegal period.


"First they came after union workers, Rail didn't care... he wasn't a union member.

Then they came for the pot smokers, Rail didn't care...he wasn't one of those.

Then they came for cig smokers, Rail encouraged it.

Then they came for the free thinkers, Rail didn't like it... but they were doing such a good job at everything else.

Then they came for the real Christians (as opposed to the Fox news version) Rail said 'hey wait a minute, there isn't many of us left. Who will protect us?'..."
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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and so the games begin in iowa

last night the cigarette litter outside the bar was comical and this is on a tuesday

wonder if they will ever start to hand out public intox or littering tickets to smokers taking a smoke break from the bars
 

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tiznow;5514987 wonder if they will ever start to hand out public intox or littering tickets to smokers taking a smoke break from the bars[/quote said:
You can make book on it.

:toast:
 
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I smoke & I dont mind not being able to smoke certain places....Went in for 2 year physical & blood pressure was 128/90..Probly have to quit anyway.....Nobody should have to brethe my secondhand smoke.
 

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