FSP Sets its Sights on New Hampshire

[Phaedrus]

Libertarians aim to set N.H. 'free'

Migration urged for minimal government experiment

Jason Sorens, right, president of the Free State Project, announces Wednesday that New Hampshire has been chosen as the place where 20,000 people are to relocate by 2006.

CONCORD, N.H., Oct. 1 — A group of libertarians announced Wednesday that New Hampshire had edged out nine other finalists as the place where it hopes to send 20,000 Americans to create a "free state."

NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHOSE motto is “Live Free or Die,” beat out nine other finalists for the Free State Project. Wyoming was runner-up but 10 percentage points behind New Hampshire in balloting conducted by about 5,000 members of the project around the country, Project Vice President Elizabeth McKinstry said.

The 5,000 members have already pledged to relocate to the selected state, Free State Project organizers say. They hope to increase their numbers to 20,000 within two years, move to the chosen state, and start transforming the state into a national model for small government, few laws and individual liberty.

‘NATIONWIDE POPULARITY CONTEST’

“We won. That’s fantastic,” said New Hampshire Libertarian Party Chairman John Babiarz. “It’s like New Hampshire has won a nationwide popularity contest based on its fundamentals.”
McKinstry of Ann Arbor, Mich., said New Hampshire won because it “boasts the lowest state and local tax burden in the continental U.S., the leanest state government in the country ... a citizen legislature, a healthy job market, and perhaps most important, local support for our movement,” she said.

Project members also like the state’s constitution, which protects the rights to revolution and secession. The prospective new neighbors worry some New Hampshire residents. Kathy Sullivan, state Democratic Party chairwoman, said project members “can best be described as anarchists.”

Babiarz said critics have it wrong.

‘WE’RE NOT HERE TO ... TAKE OVER’

“We’re not here to invade or take over. We’re here to restore the American dream,” said Babiarz, a database consultant.

Some free-staters want to roll back restrictions on gambling, legalize medicinal marijuana and strengthen gun rights. But McKinstry said members also will work for charities and scholarship programs and help citizens take back their government.

Doug Hillman, 39, said he is looking forward to leaving Graham, Ala., and moving his wife and four young children somewhere near Littleton or Lancaster. Hillman was most impressed with Republican Gov. Craig Benson’s attitude toward the project - “Come on up, we’d love to have you,” he said last summer.

“That led me to believe that libertarian thought and libertarianism is more accepted in New Hampshire,” Hillman said. Following second-place Wyoming in the voting, in order, were Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Maine, Vermont, Delaware, South Dakota and North Dakota.

****

Phaedrus adds: FSP's official site is here.

 

[Oceans11]

It sounds like a hippy commune for the neo-con middle/upper classes.

There are various minimum government places round the world.

Many of them are small islands or mini-states that mainly double up as tax havens for rich dudes cos rich people cant afford to pay taxes. (and house offshore books and ecasinos too).
Places where there is zip regulation.

Whats the difference, apart from the obvious fact that the commune will have the massive advantage of trading freely within the US, and has direct access to the US infrastructure.
Something that the REAL outsiders that I refer to btw, would never have.

Doesn't the US have an equivalent for places like Monaco, Lichtenstein, Jersey, Andorra, San Marino etc. Havens for struggling wealthy people who can't afford to contribute.
They can then cross the 'border' and enjoy all the benefits and priveliges and infrastructure that the taxes of genuine hardworking contributing people have created.

Is that what this stunt is angling towards?

Another haven for the parasite classes.

[This message was edited by eek on October 02, 2003 at 07:44 AM.]

 

[Phaedrus]

Yes, god damn those rich parasites that provide the jobs for most of the world's population, the investment capital for most of the world's innovations, and far more tax revenue than they should. Damn them straight to hell.

However, the FSP is comprised almost entirely of Lilbertarians, who are for the most part not rich parasites at all. You should also double-check you dictionary for the definition of "neo-con" because last I checked not one of them would be caught dead affiliated with a project like FSP.

Also, most foreign tax havens make shitty destinations for expats, because their haven status is generally defined by laws which exclude doing business in the nation. There are good places for expats to go as well, and of course some which qualify as both.

However, the FSP people generally believe that rather than continuing to dodge and flee the machinations of the state, that it should be engaged, and that is the goal towards which they are working.

Oddly enough, I thought you'd find it an appealing idea ... you might take a moment to read the FSP site (linked above.)


Phaedrus

 

[Oceans11]

If you REALLY want to start a brave new no bullshit world.

Withdraw all your money in $1 bills, you'll need it.
Set up shop in a cave, somewhere in the outback, hundreds of miles from the nearest road.

You will find that money is pretty usless flipping stuff without the society it exploits.

You can however, stuff the loose bills into your clothing as additional insulation during chilly nights.
Also, tightly wrapped bundles of bills can create a nice campfire, light it with a $1 lighter. (produced by society, but we'll let you have that one)

Take a dead squirrel, killed earlier in the day with a rock (so its slightly squashed), and impale it on a bendy stick.
Suspend it over the campfire and wait until its nice and crispy.
Feast heartily and make merry.

Good luck.
------------------------

These places are nice in theory.
The hippies still do it, even in the UK, there are isolated communities in the Highlands.
The problem is, theres too many people on the planet for it to be viable for most of us.
-------------------------

If the project gets up and running, it will be interesting to see how long before theres a power struggle, and who the personalities are.
Theres always someone who tries to use a community as an ego extension.

Democratic Socialism had one major flaw, it relied solely on people, who are often not objective, tending to favour friends, politically unmotivated people (who work hard but are non-threatening to the manager) and ass-kissers. Eventually they corrupt the 'system' and it crumbles.


Money is objective, it has no friends, no enemies, and cares not who owns it, which is why it endures as a concept.
But Rome, for example, didn't last forever, even though it was a money system.

[This message was edited by eek on October 02, 2003 at 08:58 AM.]

 

[WildBill]

I like the idea, interesting concept. I can't argue with their beliefs or hopes, but of course I gotta see it first to believe it. And since NH has a lot more residents than Wyoming and is close to those liberal melting pots in MA and VT I don't like its chances. Maybe that is the point though, just start up crap and get attention for their viewpoints.

 

[BigGamesOnly]

WildBill:

Even though NH is close to liberal places like Mass. and Vt., it thrives as a haven for people who are tired of those places. That's what makes it so desirable to the FSP people.

These people aren't set out to create a "Brave New World". They just want to improve their lives while still living in the US and being able to gain from the benefits of living in this country.

 

[BigGamesOnly]

eek:

Rome as a monetary system is still viable today. It takes different forms from the original Empire.

 

[Phaedrus]

posted by eek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
You will find that money is pretty usless flipping stuff without the society it exploits.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But this is the great misunderstanding of Socialism. Money itself is a useful thing, but it is not an end -- only a means. It is because of this misunderstanding that the whole world has gone down the economic shitter following the closet Socialism of John Maynard Keynes' teachings.

I don't desire more money because I think it's pretty, or because a fat balance makes me feel like a bigger or better person. Money is nothing more than a medium of exchange, something which makes getting around and transacting with others a more fluid experience.

If I buy a car, do you suppose that it is the money that the car dealer wants? On the face of it this would seem to be correct, but what the car dealer actually wants is electric power, food, a roof over his head, a little bit of money in the bank (which in the end only represents future consumption needs which in the investors eyes take precedence over current ones) and so forth. The money itself is nothing more than a "universal solution" that allows the dealer greater flexibility in using his business to meet his everyday needs.

I might have had a ring or other piece of jewelry that the dealer would have been willing to trade for the car. If the piece met some need or desire on the part of the dealer, and I needed the car, it would be an ideal trade and no money would change hands.

If I traded some land for the piece, no money changed hands. If the dealer gives the piece to his wife as a physical symbol of his intangible feelings of estimation and love for her, then of course no money changes hands.

So there went several thousand dollars' worth of commerce without a thin dime changing hands. In a much more common, much more practical real-world scenario, billions of people all around the world labour, not directly for food, shelter, Internet access, liquour, etc., but for the more fluidly-negotiated money, which they will then distribute in the manner of their choosing for whatever goods and services they need and want.

In other words, money is nothing more than a more fluid means of trade facilitation than barter, the original form of exchange between humans (which of course still goes on today, though not so much as it used to.)

Socialists look at money as some form of exploitive medium, the carrot that capital holds over the masses only to beat them with a stick when they reach for it ("Here's your paycheck. But aha! If you want another, you must work some more!" How exploitive. ) Keynes used this sort of ignorance to hoodwink an entire generation of politicians into believing that they could sovle their financial woes with a prinitng press -- and the results speak for themselves, with nation after nation falling into bankruptcy and many more teetering on the edge. All of this stems from the mistaken perception of money itself as some sort of end, as a commodity (while ironically it was at the advice of Keynes that the world turned away from gold as money, as rigid adherence to a hard money policy makes implementation of Keynesian principle impossible.)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
These places are nice in theory. If the project gets up and running, it will be interesting to see how long before theres a power struggle, and who the personalities are. Theres always someone who tries to use a community as an ego extension.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true, but not unavoidable and hardly a reason to not at least try. Ironically I do not believe that the FSP will succeed -- my own feeling being that it is impossible to "change the system from within" as Professor Sorens wishes to do, when the system itself is inherently corrupt. However, the fact that they are even attempting such a feat is admirable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Democratic Socialism had one major flaw, it relied solely on people, who are often not objective, tending to favour friends, politically unmotivated people (who work hard but are non-threatening to the manager) and ass-kissers. Eventually they corrupt the 'system' and it crumbles.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, people are imperfect, to be sure. Most forms of government (and economics) tend towards failure for the simple reason that the only way to make most of their projections and plans "work on paper" is to exclude from them the phenomenon of human choice, to explore what Mises called the praxeological considerations of human action. Flying in the face of the misbegotten pseudo-science of sociology, Mises held that it was folly to attempt to predict human behaviour, as the only way to give even the appearance of success was to make one's predictions in the most broadly-intepretable terms possible. Of course, sociologists do exactly that, and the allure of making predictions that need never come true has bred a generation of worthless pseudo-intellectual hangers-on at universities around the world.

To deny the possiblity that an idea will be rejected, even actively revolted against, or simply corrupted from its "pristine" formation is to deny human nature itself, which is why Democratic Socialism and most other forms of far-left government are such dismal failures. The only reason why they manage to still breath at all in the world is their false promises of "fairness" -- a fairness built on exploitation of the producers, and justified through the rose-coloured glasses of envy; "equality" -- built on totalitarian egalitarianism which reduces everyone to the same, equally miserable level; "peace" -- through universal hegemony and the glossing over of people's cultural differences; etc. To see this Utopia in practice one needs look no further than the history of the Balkans throughout the 20th century.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Money is objective, it has no friends, no enemies, and cares not who owns it, which is why it endures as a concept. But Rome, for example, didn't last forever, even though it was a money system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't understand the inference -- what do you mean?

(also, on a sort of related topic, you might be interested in this piece by Garry Kasporov o historical revision RE: the Roman Rmpire.)


Phaedrus

 

[Phaedrus]

Hey, turns out that there is also a European Free State Project.


Phaedrus

 

[Phaedrus]

Now this is is what I call targeted advertising ...

Free staters recruit angry residents in South Carolina town

By Kate McCann
Associated Press

CONCORD, N.H. --

A heavy-handed drug sweep in a high school has made a South Carolina community the first target of a New Hampshire-based freedom-minded advertising campaign.

The Free State Project says that whenever there is such an "egregious overstep" of government powers, it will run ads that essentially say, "Come to New Hampshire, we don't have this problem."

The project, which aims to bring 20,000 liberty-minded people to New Hampshire to work for smaller government and greater individual liberties, has reached about 6,000 people who say they are committed to moving to New Hampshire.

The first ad will run Wednesday in a weekly newspaper in Goose Creek, S.C., where police with guns drawn ordered more than 100 Stratford High School pupils to the floor and restrained some with plastic handcuffs during a Nov. 5 raid in which no drugs were found.

"They basically terrorized the students for no good reason," said James Maynard, a project spokesman in New Hampshire. "So we will be running ads in towns around Goose Creek or even Charleston."

A second federal lawsuit was filed Monday on behalf of 20 pupils stemming from the incident. Earlier this month, a suit alleging constitutional violations was brought on behalf of 18 other Stratford students.

The first add depicts a grainy surveillance video frame of the raid, showing students crouched on the hallway and police with weapons drawn.

Above and below the frame reads: "Some people feel this is an appropriate way to protect our children... You may feel there's a better way. We think you're right. Discover for yourselves how the members of the Free State Project have pledged to make a difference."

"Governments who overstep their constitutional bounds should beware that when they do, we're going to be right behind them to recruit their citizens from under them," Maynard said.

But Ed Haas, spokesman for the South Carolina Libertarian Party, doubts the project will find any new takers in the southern state.

"What is mind boggling to me is how many people down here are actually in favor of what they saw on that surveillance tape," said Haas, who issued a statement condemning the raid.

"I don't know if (the ad) would be money well spent," he said.

The ad cost nearly $300, said Kelton Baker, interim president of the Free State Project.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson has called it an issue of police violence. A South Carolina state senator said the raid was racial profiling.

Police conducted the sweep early in the morning, at a time when many minority students are at the school because they are bused in early.

"There is definitely a large segment of the minority community down here that are very concerned about police conduct," Haas said. "Whether they would seize the opportunity to participate in the experiment in New Hampshire, I don't know."